Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Mountain Biking Mountain biking is one of the fastest growing sports in the world. Check out this forum to discuss the latest tips, tricks, gear and equipment in the world of mountain biking.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-01-03, 11:36 AM   #1
hitek420
I'm bikey
Thread Starter
 
hitek420's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Bikes:
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
saint website

here
hitek420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-03, 11:48 AM   #2
Maelstrom 
Wood Licker
 
Maelstrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Whistler,BC
Bikes: Transition Dirtbag, Kona Roast 2002 and specialized BMX
Posts: 16,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Looks like I am not getting a stinky primo...damn
Maelstrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-03, 12:05 PM   #3
Maelstrom 
Wood Licker
 
Maelstrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Whistler,BC
Bikes: Transition Dirtbag, Kona Roast 2002 and specialized BMX
Posts: 16,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Great site. Answered some of my questions but I still have concerns. As a freeride set what is the warranty like. If it is really a freeride deraileur do they do full warranties on 'tree bashing' the levers/pods or snapping the axle and deraileur off in a rock garden.

Either way I can't wait till I see wade or schley again. I will have to ask them what they think and if they really do like it or if shimano is 'sponsoring' them.

Great find thanx hitek.

ps those cranks look like sex...wow
Maelstrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-03, 10:29 PM   #4
Raiyn
I drink your MILKSHAKE
 
Raiyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Rockhopper FSR Comp, 1999 Specialized Hardrock Comp FS, 1971 Schwinn Varsity
Posts: 15,061
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No Saint for me:
Quote:
7. Do I have to use the Saint rear hub to use the Saint rear derailleur, and is the opposite true also?
The Saint rear derailleur was designed for maximum durability and in doing so, the rear derailleur mounting point was moved to the rear axle. This means that for the rear derailleur to work properly, a dedicated hub is required. The rear derailleur may mount to other axles of the same diameter and thread pitch, however, no other combinations have been tested, so performance is unknown. At this time, there is no other rear derailleur that will likely mount to the Saint rear hub axle.
__________________
Raiyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-03, 10:39 PM   #5
Jim311
Senior Member
 
Jim311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Gainesville, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 1,791
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Meh. I hadn't thought about it, but you can't run the rear derailler at all unless you have the rear hub. Not to mention you cant run the deraillers and shifters either, and if you want to run the brakes you have to have splined hubs too. Seems like an expensive proposition. Who in their right mind is going to just up and buy an ENTIRE new component set unless they're building up a new bike? I'm not sure this one is gonna catch on.. but only time will tell.
Jim311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-03, 09:47 AM   #6
hitek420
I'm bikey
Thread Starter
 
hitek420's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Bikes:
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Compatibility Update - Aug 11th, 2003
Aurelio Marogna gave me some more info on Saint's ability to fit in with the crowd. One thing he mentioned is that some bike manufacturers are speccing bikes with a Saint rear derailleur but with a hub as well as brakes made by another company. Basically you get the derailleur and Saint axle with a 135mm through-axle rear hub made by companies like Hadley and Atomic Labs. This means you will be able to pick up the Saint changer and axle on their own and use the system on an appropriate hub, and use a brake system of your choice. There is also talk of aftermarket 150mm axles being made available so you may be able to use Saint on a bike that requires the wider format.

Yeah, too bad you have to run the Saint derailler with the Saint hub... oh wait nevermind
hitek420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-03, 09:49 AM   #7
hitek420
I'm bikey
Thread Starter
 
hitek420's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Bikes:
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yeah mael, those cranks look good
hitek420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-03, 10:17 AM   #8
a2psyklnut
NCAA - DUAL CHAMPIONS!
 
a2psyklnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: From Sarasota, FL sitting in front of a computer spewing random thoughts!
Bikes: Intense Uzzi SL, Masi Speciale, Trek 3700 Nashbar Single Speed, Old Cilo Road frame
Posts: 7,964
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just like everything else new and improved. Wait a couple of seasons until all the bugs are worked out of the system!

l8R
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "WOW, What a Ride!" - unknown
"Your Bike Sucks" - Sky Yaeger
a2psyklnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-03, 03:43 PM   #9
TimB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Bikes:
Posts: 1,012
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Saint has been in development for over 3 yrs. I'm pretty sur the bugs are irnoed out by now.
But i guess that ranks right up there with other dogma's like:

"it's not compatible with anything else"

"you can only use the flippy shifters with it"

etctectetcetc
TimB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-03, 07:31 AM   #10
a2psyklnut
NCAA - DUAL CHAMPIONS!
 
a2psyklnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: From Sarasota, FL sitting in front of a computer spewing random thoughts!
Bikes: Intense Uzzi SL, Masi Speciale, Trek 3700 Nashbar Single Speed, Old Cilo Road frame
Posts: 7,964
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well TimB, no matter how long it's been in R & D the true test of "anything" is during it's first year in production. Then, when the warranties start coming in, the engineers disect and investigate. If they find a valid flaw, and a solution it takes some time before the change is made. Usually not until the 3rd year of production. Now, smaller companies who do not have such large production runs are able to incorporate those changes much quicker, but we're not talking about companies as big as Shimano.

I like Shimano products, they're well designed and engineered. Sometimes I think Shimano creates solutions to non-problems. Or creates a new product for the sake of creating new market share. Honestly, kudos for them. If they didn't technology would taper or even plataeu.

I like the look of the Saint line, and will most likely have some components on my bike. But not this year, not likely next year either. I like their Rear Derailleur design, but will wait until I can use my Non-Saint hub. I do not like the integrated shifter/brakes because I want to be able to use my Hayes Discs.

To say that Shimano doesn't have compatiblility problems is being stubborn or ignorant. They do, but they don't care. Their new levers will ONLY work with Shimano Hydraulics. Being compatible with Deore, XT or XTR isn't REALLY being compatible. My biggest problem with Shimano is that they force the consumer into their way of thinking. I like my XTR shift pods (no integrated brake levers). I hope they continue to keep the seperate shifter pods in their lineup for years to come.

L8R
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "WOW, What a Ride!" - unknown
"Your Bike Sucks" - Sky Yaeger
a2psyklnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-03, 08:34 AM   #11
slcpunk21
Senior Member
 
slcpunk21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: finally transplanted!
Bikes:
Posts: 454
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by TimB
Saint has been in development for over 3 yrs. I'm pretty sur the bugs are irnoed out by now.
But i guess that ranks right up there with other dogma's like:

"it's not compatible with anything else"

"you can only use the flippy shifters with it"

etctectetcetc
WOW man, do you just like bring this same old argument up again and again and again and again and again?

A2 didn't say anything negative against shimano his reply before yours. And you have to go and bring up this same thing....WHY?

A2 just said, and notice the quotes "Just like everything else new and improved" not specifically shimano or anyone in particular! All the companies have that same thing, no matter how much you R and D it...there is still someone out in the real world that WILL find a problem with it!

I say buy it in the first year, if you have issues I'm sure shimano will take care of you.

JUST SHUT UP ABOUT THIS SAME OLD ARGUMENT!
slcpunk21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-03, 08:49 AM   #12
TimB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Bikes:
Posts: 1,012
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
a2psyklnut,

Quote:
Well TimB, no matter how long it's been in R & D the true test of "anything" is during it's first year in production. Then, when the warranties start coming in, the engineers disect and investigate. If they find a valid flaw, and a solution it takes some time before the change is made. Usually not until the 3rd year of production. Now, smaller companies who do not have such large production runs are able to incorporate those changes much quicker, but we're not talking about companies as big as Shimano.
Those smaller companies also let you do their R7D for them. That measn higher cost to the consumer.
Any warranty issues are usually not due to design but due to production pressure to get a product to market.
That may have been true 10yrs ago but time ahve changed and QC is pretty good with CAD/CAM machines churning out similar component after component.


Quote:
like the look of the Saint line, and will most likely have some components on my bike. But not this year, not likely next year either. I like their Rear Derailleur design, but will wait until I can use my Non-Saint hub.
The Saint axle is compatible with other cup and cone FR hubs. Read the info posted earlier.
But still dn't rushed and buy the tuff if thats not yhe way you do things. like new stuff so I can sort out problems (if any) and understand the stuff. But thats just me

Quote:
I do not like the integrated shifter/brakes because I want to be able to use my Hayes Discs.
yeah so whats the problem? RF+ is still available and will be for a long while

Quote:
To say that Shimano doesn't have compatiblility problems is being stubborn or ignorant.They do, but they don't care. Their new levers will ONLY work with Shimano Hydraulics.
I guess Hope Levers work with Hayes brakes then??
and of course Formual is interchangable with Magura......... Please!
I never stated that there's no compatibilty problems but i think you will agree that every manufacturer has compatibility issues with someone else somewhere.

Quote:
Being compatible with Deore, XT or XTR isn't REALLY being compatible. My biggest problem with Shimano is that they force the consumer into their way of thinking. I like my XTR shift pods (no integrated brake levers). I hope they continue to keep the seperate shifter pods in their lineup for years to come.
in my discussions with them they have said that is the intention unless market demand for Dual control makes it unfeasible to continue with RF+.

I have no problem with people's choice and individualism, but to post something that is not strictly true and always the std responce is some emotional babble about how Shimano wants to dominate the world is really just plain annoying.

They're a company, they have no responisbility to make all their stuff compatible with everyone. and in the past they have bowed to market needs ie separate brake levers and shifter pods for RF+, a revamped and different XTR (yes peolpe actually wanted something new there)
All indications are that they will continue to offer RF+ and once DC has filtered down to all groups they will keep a RF+ pod on the market to meet demand for those stilling running older systems or for those who choose that route.

I really cannot understand this " I hate Shimano" attitude around here.
how can anyone hate something that puts so many people on the trails????
TimB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-03, 02:41 PM   #13
a2psyklnut
NCAA - DUAL CHAMPIONS!
 
a2psyklnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: From Sarasota, FL sitting in front of a computer spewing random thoughts!
Bikes: Intense Uzzi SL, Masi Speciale, Trek 3700 Nashbar Single Speed, Old Cilo Road frame
Posts: 7,964
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was going to respond to you responses, but I don't feel the need. You're so hung up on Shimano and your Integrated levers you refuse to see another point of view, or discredit it as fallacy.

You need to go back and reread. I have made numerous praises to Shimano. I just stated my opinion and what I see as problems with their component group. Last time I checked this was a forum to discuss these things and point out these items. I didn't attack them, just stated CLEARLY that I had some issues with their compatibility and my concern for 1st year production products.

I think a company like Shimano has every right to make whatever they want. I admire them for that. I also think that Shimano has made so many improvements to components to evolve the sport at an alarming rate. But as a consumer, I have every right to NOT buy their product. And, I have the privaledge to discuss my opinions (right or wrong) here thanks to Joe.

L8R
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "WOW, What a Ride!" - unknown
"Your Bike Sucks" - Sky Yaeger
a2psyklnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:25 PM.