Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Mountain Biking Mountain biking is one of the fastest growing sports in the world. Check out this forum to discuss the latest tips, tricks, gear and equipment in the world of mountain biking.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-13-07, 05:33 PM   #1
ZeCanon
Writin' stuff
Thread Starter
 
ZeCanon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Boulder, CO
Bikes:
Posts: 3,784
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
UCI - Equal Prize Money for Women

Hello all
Georgia Gould is petitioning the UCI to mandate equal prize money for the top-5 men and women in UCI races. If this is something that you support please sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/equalpay/petition.html and pass it on.

Cheers
ZeCanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-07, 05:48 PM   #2
dminor 
Moar cowbell
 
dminor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The 509
Bikes: are awesome.
Posts: 12,429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
...and demand that they speak English at riders' meetings!



Hey, I'm all for the equal pay thing. As bass-ackwards as UCI is on so much, though, good luck.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Twain
"Don't argue with stupid people; they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
dminor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-07, 05:56 PM   #3
BenLi
Hardrocker
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 1,569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
"We, the undersigned, find it regrettable that there is still a considerable disparity between the UCI minimum prize money for men and women. We understand that because competition in the men’s field is deeper, more places receive prize money. We do not understand why the women who are receiving prize money receive less than their male counterparts. Therefore we propose that the UCI show leadership and mandate equal prize money for the top five men and women. Article 3 of the UCI Constitution states: “The UCI will carry out its activities in compliance with the principles of: a) equality between all the members and all the athletes, license-holders and officials, without racial, political, religious, or other discrimination.” We ask the UCI to honor its commitment to equality. "

Flawed Argument.

If there are less competitors in the female sector, it means that the competition organizers will receive less money. Less money equates to less prize money. It's as simple as that.
BenLi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-07, 06:23 PM   #4
ZeCanon
Writin' stuff
Thread Starter
 
ZeCanon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Boulder, CO
Bikes:
Posts: 3,784
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Thats why they are asking only for equal pay for the first 5 women. That is not nearly as deep as the men. Yours is the argument that is flawed.
ZeCanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-07, 06:27 PM   #5
BenLi
Hardrocker
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 1,569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeCanon View Post
Thats why they are asking only for equal pay for the first 5 women. That is not nearly as deep as the men. Yours is the argument that is flawed.
Then they argue that there should be as many women who receive prizes as men.

Really, they attribute all these things to "sexism", when they are, in fact, simply pragmatism. The feminist movement has gone overboard. I remember reading an article a while back that asked the question "Why shouldn't women have urinals? Why should they have to sit?"....

Last edited by BenLi; 12-13-07 at 06:39 PM.
BenLi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-07, 07:19 PM   #6
MikeyLikesIt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: North Texas
Bikes: Merlin/Campy road, Giant Rincon Playbike
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As devils advocate, seems to me if they wanted to "carry out its activities in compliance with the principles of: a) equality between all the members and all the athletes, license-holders and officials, without racial, political, religious, or other discrimination" ...then why discriminate by dividing the sexes into seperate catagories. Let them compete together and those that finish in the money get the money regardless of their gender.
MikeyLikesIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-07, 07:36 PM   #7
bobcat19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree with Mikey. Let them compete together.
bobcat19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-07, 05:42 PM   #8
apclassic9
Caustic Soccer Mom
 
apclassic9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Millstone WV
Bikes:
Posts: 1,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
I think the prize money should be equal, and the number of places deep should reflect the field size. Got 50 men and 25 women? Award $$ to top 10% - 5 men, 3 women.

Although I will say, I got dirty looks froma ladies who came in 2nd & 3rd in an Expert Class, and we only gave money to 1st place.... hey there were only 3 of them.
__________________
As with mud, life, too, slides by.
apclassic9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-07, 06:32 PM   #9
Cypress
Giving you the business.
 
Cypress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
Bikes: Ridley Noah, Giant Trinity Advanced, Specialized Crux
Posts: 4,441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My answer is the same for MTB races as it is for road. If they are paying the same for both sexes, guys who are top 10'ing the expert class should look into getting a sex change.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moderator
Dear Cypress,

You have received an infraction at Bike Forums.
Cypress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-07, 07:05 PM   #10
cryptid01
Guest
 
Bikes:
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-07, 07:37 PM   #11
Billy Brown
Senior Member
 
Billy Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyLikesIt View Post
As devils advocate, seems to me if they wanted to "carry out its activities in compliance with the principles of: a) equality between all the members and all the athletes, license-holders and officials, without racial, political, religious, or other discrimination" ...then why discriminate by dividing the sexes into seperate catagories. Let them compete together and those that finish in the money get the money regardless of their gender.
If you are advocating for the devil, he's isn't going to get very far. Segregation is not necessarily discrimination, though you can have discriminatory segregation.

As far as your logic goes, competitors shouldn't complain if somebody jacked up on steroids beats them when they are clean. If you and/or others agree with that, then I commend your consistency at ignorance. Men and women are different physiologically (and penisheads on this forum show that while men have the stronger bodies, women probably have the bigger brains). People that think they should compete together--to show women what equality "really" means--have been duped by the egregious form feminism that denies any sort scientifically proven biological differences between men and women.

I mean come on...that men and women should get paid the same for the same job is pretty conventional. There are certain complications because we are talking about physical capital rather than human or intellectual capital but geez.

And if you want to talk about pragmatics, it's horrible publicity for the UCI to not make the pay equal. Even if it is some sort of discrimination in favor of women; discrimination is practical.

Last edited by Billy Brown; 12-16-07 at 07:55 PM.
Billy Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-07, 07:44 PM   #12
Billy Brown
Senior Member
 
Billy Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
My answer is the same for MTB races as it is for road. If they are paying the same for both sexes, guys who are top 10'ing the expert class should look into getting a sex change.
Yeah, that really captures the spirit of competition. I hope you were being facetious.
Billy Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-07, 07:55 PM   #13
Cypress
Giving you the business.
 
Cypress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
Bikes: Ridley Noah, Giant Trinity Advanced, Specialized Crux
Posts: 4,441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Brown View Post
Yeah, that really captures the spirit of competition. I hope you were being facetious.
Apparently you've never raced road.

What is your take on the situation?

The sport thrives on advertising. Advertisers won't support an event that the fans don't watch.

If the promoters are asked to pay almost twice as much as they already do, for a reason that doesn't make sense, they will back out. This isn't a popular sport.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moderator
Dear Cypress,

You have received an infraction at Bike Forums.
Cypress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-07, 08:07 PM   #14
Billy Brown
Senior Member
 
Billy Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
Apparently you've never raced road.

What is your take on the situation?

The sport thrives on advertising. Advertisers won't support an event that the fans don't watch.

If the promoters are asked to pay almost twice as much as they already do, for a reason that doesn't make sense, they will back out. This isn't a popular sport.
Okay...I guess your point now is different than the point about the sex change.

The sport is not popular because the promoters are not innovative. Innovative marketing can make anything popular. The "Slinky" is an icon for christ's sake. Look at the current popularity of poker, for example. Not exactly a spectator sport but there is a huge interest in it lately.

They don't have to pay twice as much anyway, do they? They can lower the pay for men. Anyway, I don't think Specialized or Trek or Crank Brothers is going to quite sponsoring racing. And isn't the theory: more money paid (for women's races), more people attracted, more competition, more people (women) buying things in aspiration and emulation of the stars.

These are all easy questions. Gone over a million times. No issue here. Sign the petition or at least do not oppose it or risk showing your disjunct from history, politics, business, and law.
Billy Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-07, 08:33 PM   #15
Cypress
Giving you the business.
 
Cypress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
Bikes: Ridley Noah, Giant Trinity Advanced, Specialized Crux
Posts: 4,441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Brown View Post

These are all easy questions. Gone over a million times. No issue here. Sign the petition or at least do not oppose it or risk showing your disjunct from history, politics, business, and law.
I didn't think my opinion granted a personal attack, but whatever. It shows your character. I also have no clue where history, politics, and law fit into this discussion.

Ever seen a women's race on TV (real networks, not the OSHO)? When was the last time you saw ESPN say anything about a women's race? Watching a women's road race is like watching paint dry. If advertisers don't get exposure, they aren't expected to keep paying out of the goodness of their hearts.

If you think there is some sort of miracle fix for cycling being so unpopular, by all means, give it a shot. You wouldn't the first.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moderator
Dear Cypress,

You have received an infraction at Bike Forums.
Cypress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-07, 09:12 PM   #16
MikeyLikesIt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: North Texas
Bikes: Merlin/Campy road, Giant Rincon Playbike
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Brown View Post
If you are advocating for the devil, he's isn't going to get very far. Segregation is not necessarily discrimination, though you can have discriminatory segregation.

As far as your logic goes, competitors shouldn't complain if somebody jacked up on steroids beats them when they are clean. If you and/or others agree with that, then I commend your consistency at ignorance. Men and women are different physiologically (and penisheads on this forum show that while men have the stronger bodies, women probably have the bigger brains). People that think they should compete together--to show women what equality "really" means--have been duped by the egregious form feminism that denies any sort scientifically proven biological differences between men and women.

I mean come on...that men and women should get paid the same for the same job is pretty conventional. There are certain complications because we are talking about physical capital rather than human or intellectual capital but geez.

And if you want to talk about pragmatics, it's horrible publicity for the UCI to not make the pay equal. Even if it is some sort of discrimination in favor of women; discrimination is practical.
Rule says "equal between all...athletes...without...discrimination." I didn't write the rules...and you seem to be advocating the breaking of the rules. If the rules need to be rewritten then so be it. I never said there shouldn't be equal pay for equal work...but is their work really "equal"? I can go race and bust my a** just like the winner does and I won't make one red cent because my performace is not "equal" to his/hers.

I am much stronger than my wife, but, she certainly has the "bigger brain"...she also makes about 30% more money than I do for 40 hrs work. But this "penis head" not complaining. And I sure as hell don't expect her to make less so I might make little more, as you suggest. IT'S NOT FAIR!! WAHHHHahaha!! It's not equal either...it's the MARKET PLACE.

Last edited by MikeyLikesIt; 12-16-07 at 09:32 PM.
MikeyLikesIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-07, 11:36 PM   #17
Cypress
Giving you the business.
 
Cypress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
Bikes: Ridley Noah, Giant Trinity Advanced, Specialized Crux
Posts: 4,441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Brown View Post
I mean come on...that men and women should get paid the same for the same job is pretty conventional.
It is NOT the same job.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moderator
Dear Cypress,

You have received an infraction at Bike Forums.
Cypress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-07, 12:07 AM   #18
dminor 
Moar cowbell
 
dminor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The 509
Bikes: are awesome.
Posts: 12,429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
I didn't think my opinion granted a personal attack, but whatever. It shows your character. I also have no clue where history, politics, and law fit into this discussion.

Ever seen a women's race on TV (real networks, not the OSHO)? When was the last time you saw ESPN say anything about a women's race? Watching a women's road race is like watching paint dry. If advertisers don't get exposure, they aren't expected to keep paying out of the goodness of their hearts.

If you think there is some sort of miracle fix for cycling being so unpopular, by all means, give it a shot. You wouldn't the first.
Watching ANY road race is like watching paint dry; watching ANY XC race is like watching dried paint weather.

This year's Jeep KOM Series showed both men's and women's races (granted with the women, they only showed semis and finals). When there is interesting racing to watch, both sexes are TV-worthy.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Twain
"Don't argue with stupid people; they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
dminor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-07, 01:03 PM   #19
mx_599
Lost in the Black Hills
 
mx_599's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by .
Hello all
Georgia Gould is petitioning the UCI to mandate equal prize money for the top-5 men and women in UCI races. If this is something that you support please sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/equalpay/petition.html and pass it on.

Cheers
this is absurd.
mx_599 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-07, 01:57 PM   #20
colombo357
Senior Member
 
colombo357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 1,995
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
When junior expert men are creaming the pro women, especially in DH, you can't advocate equal prize money and keep a straight face.

If 50% of bike shop customers were female, then I suppose there would be more justification.
colombo357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-07, 02:09 PM   #21
kenhill3
use your best eye
 
kenhill3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Olympia, Washington
Bikes: '75 Bertin, '93 Parkpre Team 925, '04 Kona King Kikapu, '05 Bianchi Vigorelli
Posts: 3,058
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just thinkin'-

Don't recall if I ever heard of women and men racing DH against each other, at least as an exhibition type thing. Wonder how Missy Giove would have done back in the day.
__________________
"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." - Kurt Vonnegut jr.
kenhill3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-07, 02:13 PM   #22
mcoine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: southern oregon
Bikes:
Posts: 2,631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenhill3 View Post
Wonder how Missy Giove would have done back in the day.
She would have most likely lost against pro men. She would kick my ***** going down a hill though.
mcoine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-07, 02:14 PM   #23
mx_599
Lost in the Black Hills
 
mx_599's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
She would have most likely lost against pro men and dminor.
mx_599 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-07, 02:18 PM   #24
dminor 
Moar cowbell
 
dminor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The 509
Bikes: are awesome.
Posts: 12,429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenhill3 View Post
Just thinkin'-

Don't recall if I ever heard of women and men racing DH against each other, at least as an exhibition type thing. Wonder how Missy Giove would have done back in the day.
She would have gotten waxed. The only woman I've seen, at least from a bike-handling standpoint, that stacks up to the men is Anne-Caro. She was actually a training-partner with Cedric. (Right now she is off trying to qualify for the Olympics in BMX) The women are fast, yes, but their times are often comparable to some of the older Experts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mx_599
She would have most likely lost against pro men and dminor.
Haha. I'm a slow hack who tries to convey the illusion of speed with sponsor decals
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Twain
"Don't argue with stupid people; they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
dminor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-07, 02:23 PM   #25
mcoine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: southern oregon
Bikes:
Posts: 2,631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
dminor.. maybe you should wear a wig, and dominate the womens pro circuit.
mcoine is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:16 AM.