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  1. #1
    Old Curmudgeon
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    '93 Stumpjumper FS Revitalization

    Suspension fork replacement...old Stumpy FS. 1-1/8" headset

    Over the years I have replaced just about every component on this Prestige Direct drive steel frame. It's done a great job with tons of XC riding. Currently the only items OEM are the fork, headset, stem & handlebars. Oh, and the seat binder bolt.

    After many rebuilds & oil changes, now I'm replacing the original suspension fork....a "Future Shock". It was built by Rock Shox & branded for Specialized. Very simalar to a Mag 21.

    The travel on the old shock is 45 mm (about 1-3/4").

    To maintain the bike geometery, the closest I can come to that travel is the SID at 80MM. It's the type of fork (XC) that I wanted anyway. I bought the Sid Race. I'm 160 lbs & ride fast, hilly, unmaintained roads in NH. I'm looking forward to using the new fork later this year, but right now it's XC ski season.

    Now I need to replace the old threaded headset with a threadless headset & get a new stem. Not having done this before, I'm looking for suggestions. In particular on how to size the stem and whether to use spacers.

    My old stem was 135mm, 10 deg. Pretty long by today's standards. Since my back isn't getting any younger, I thought I'd go with the flow and size back to 120mm, 10deg. I use a flat handle bar. Opinions?

    What's up with headset spacers? How do I determine if I need any? Should I cut the steerer long & use a spacer(s), then cut back it if I feel it's too high? With my old stem, I had it inserted as far down as it would go, but I always had the ability to move it up if I wanted. I'll lose that with the threadless system, right?

    What's the easiest mid-priced headset to adjust & maintain? I am only going by advertisements at the moment. American Classic falls in my price range. Is this good? What else might be appropriate for XC riding?

    I'm taking pictures & measurements of my old bike set-up today. Then I'll have some numbers to compare to.

    Your suggestions (outside of replacing the frame) are appreciated.

    Oh, and for the SID Race fork settings (air pressure, dampening), are the suggested settings in the manual pretty good (120# neg & pos)? Where do I start with the little red dampening knob setting at the bottom of the fork. EG: x turns in from the rabbit, or x number of turns back from the tortoise). And what pressure for the Pure Delight....on the fork it gives a range of from 20 to 60 PSI. Set it at 40 PSI???

    Jon
    Last edited by russiet; 02-02-08 at 05:46 PM.

  2. #2
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    Yeah, the spacers are just to take up the extra steerer length... Better to keep it long, you can always cut it down later... You could also get a stem that works "upside down"... Other than that, you're right in how you have no other stem height adjustment...

    The Chris King nothreadset seems to be to headset of choice...

  3. #3
    Sloth Hunter Trouble's Avatar
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    There seems to be some rule about not having more than 4cm of spacers...so I heard.

    I'm thinking of reducing stem from a 130 to 120.
    The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard and the shallow end is much too large.
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  4. #4
    Old Curmudgeon
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    Replacement finished

    OK, so yesterday I took it out for a spin. A very short spin. Lots of ice & snow is still on the ground. Here's a comparison of the front end:



    I hope that comes through OK. If not, I'll try again.

    As you can see (or not) I used some spacers. Also how the fork color matches the original paint job. Maybe some winter I'll get the frame repainted.

    Parts used: Rockshox SID Race, American Classic headset and a Thompson Elite 120MM x 5 deg. stem.

    I'm pleased that I did it all myself. I was hesitant about headset removal & installation, but it proved to be straight forward. No special tools needed....wood stick, block of wood, and light tapping with a hammer.

    OK, now the only original parts on the frame are the handlebars and the quick release for the seatpost.

    Now what do you suppose will happen if I break the frame? Specialized states that it's garanteed for life. I wonder what they'd replace it with?
    Last edited by russiet; 03-22-08 at 07:15 AM. Reason: Added more

  5. #5
    Bike Junkie roccobike's Avatar
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    I'd leave the steerer long and experiment with placement of the bars. When you've reached the height you want, make your second cut.
    The 4cm rule is news to me, I've not heard that before.
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  6. #6
    Sneaky Fast....
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    Quote Originally Posted by russiet View Post
    To maintain the bike geometery, the closest I can come to that travel is the SID at 80MM. Jon
    Jon,

    Unless Rockshox changed the SID model, you have an option to change the travel to 63mm, which would be closer to what your original fork was as you know.

    Looks good by the way form a fellow '96 Stumpjumper M2 Comp owner!

    Chris

  7. #7
    Old Curmudgeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by green814 View Post
    Unless Rockshox changed the SID model, you have an option to change the travel to 63mm, which would be closer to what your original fork was as you know.
    You're right. But it requires a complete tear-down to do it. I'd rather test it out first before I muck with that.

    A couple of other thoughts...the old shock wasn't designed to sag. The new fork is designed with 20% sag. That reduces the fork extension by 5/8 of an inch (16mm) when my weight is on the bike. This makes the fork only 18 mm (.71") longer. Not so bad.

    I also wonder how the provided spacer actually affects the fork function. Is the full extention of the fork reduced by 17 mm, or does the fork extend just as far, but recoil 17 mm less? I don't know the answer to that.

  8. #8
    cs1
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    Quote Originally Posted by russiet View Post
    What's up with headset spacers? How do I determine if I need any? Should I cut the steerer long & use a spacer(s), then cut back it if I feel it's too high? With my old stem, I had it inserted as far down as it would go, but I always had the ability to move it up if I wanted. I'll lose that with the threadless system, right?
    That's the major drawback of threadless, the inability to get the bars up high. Most current bikes have geometry that was designed with that in mind. You might run into problems on an older bike that came with a quill stem. Good luck

    Tim
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  9. #9
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    russiet,
    Have you had a chance to ride the bike anymore? If so, hsa the change in travel and frame geometry caused any marked change in handling or steering? I am curious because I am thinking of upgrading the fork on my '97 GT Zaskar to an 80mm fork like you have. The biggest difference for me is that it currently has a 63mm fork.
    2009 Surly Cross Check
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  10. #10
    Old Curmudgeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaskar24 View Post
    russiet,
    Have you had a chance to ride the bike anymore? ...thinking of upgrading the fork on my '97 GT Zaskar to an 80mm fork like you have. The biggest difference for me is that it currently has a 63mm fork.
    No biking. It was perfect for x-c skiing today. We still have a ton of snow on the ground.

    I can tell you that the fork felt fine on my short test ride. I don't have any technical trails to try at the moment (still 30" of snow in the woods), but I'm thinking it's going to be fine.

    I don't think you should be worried about a 17mm (.7") difference. A 2 or 3" difference would be another story.

  11. #11
    Me. mrchristian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russiet View Post
    OK, now the only original parts on the frame are the handlebars and the quick release for the seatpost.
    Since your bars are original, i'd go ahead and treat yourself to a new set. Aluminum does fatigue and it would suck if they failed.

    After more than a decade of service i'd say you got your money's worth!

  12. #12
    Hardrocker
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    Quote Originally Posted by russiet View Post
    Now what do you suppose will happen if I break the frame? Specialized states that it's garanteed for life. I wonder what they'd replace it with?
    Likely nothing, considering that you put on a fork that has almost twice as much travel.

  13. #13
    Old Curmudgeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenLi View Post
    Likely nothing, considering that you put on a fork that has almost twice as much travel.
    Now that's rather a direr prediction.

    But, no worries. I'm sure it will never (??!!!HA!!!) break....it's steel!

    Wait, wait....let me look at the fine print on the back cover of the bike manual. It says it's warrantied for life to the original owner, BUT, original owner shall pay all labor charges. Humpf. Not so all encompassing after all.

  14. #14
    NCAA - DUAL CHAMPIONS! a2psyklnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russiet View Post
    Now that's rather a direr prediction.

    But, no worries. I'm sure it will never (??!!!HA!!!) break....it's steel!

    Wait, wait....let me look at the fine print on the back cover of the bike manual. It says it's warrantied for life to the original owner, BUT, original owner shall pay all labor charges. Humpf. Not so all encompassing after all.
    That's for the shop to disassemble and reassemble your bike. If you just bring in the frame, you're golden.

    They'd probably replace it with a new Hardrock frame. Aluminum and heavy.

    I'd keep yours and hope you don't crack it!
    "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "WOW, What a Ride!" - unknown
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  15. #15
    Sneaky Fast....
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    Rus: I had heard you had to tear the fork apart, not sure how hard it would be. Good to hear you like it though so far! How about a pic of the whole bike?

    Zask: My '96 Stumpjumper originally had a Judy XC 63mm fork. I replaced it late '98 with a Manitou SX-TI 80mm fork. I have never really noticed a difference. I did get out of major trail riding for a few years ( , I know! ), but the bike still seems to handle very well. Though I have considered a new Sid fork set at 63mm to see if it matters.

    Chris

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by green814 View Post
    Zask: My '96 Stumpjumper originally had a Judy XC 63mm fork. I replaced it late '98 with a Manitou SX-TI 80mm fork. I have never really noticed a difference. I did get out of major trail riding for a few years ( , I know! ), but the bike still seems to handle very well. Though I have considered a new Sid fork set at 63mm to see if it matters.

    Chris
    Chris,
    Thanks for the reply. Right now I am looking at doing any uprades to the fork in the fall at the earliest because all my extra cash is tied up in finishing my Moots build. That and I'm hoping I'll be able to get a good deal on an '08 as people get the '09 forks in stock. If you do go to a SID set at 63mm let me know if you do feel any difference in handling.

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  17. #17
    Old Curmudgeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by green814 View Post
    Rus: I had heard you had to tear the fork apart, not sure how hard it would be. Good to hear you like it though so far! How about a pic of the whole bike?

    I'm on it. Pics at home, I'm at work (yug).

  18. #18
    Old Curmudgeon
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    Frame: Direct Drive Tange Prestige, TIG welded, 1993
    Fork: SID Race 2007

    Wheels (home built)
    Rims: Mavic Front = 217, Rear = 717
    Hubs:
    Front: White Bros
    Rear: Nashbar Sealed bearing
    Spokes: DT 14/15/14
    Quick Release: Salsa Flip-offs
    Tires: Panaracer DartII/SmokeII
    (Differently configured back-up wheels in storage)

    Pedals: Shimano 747 clipless
    Crank: Shimano XT square taper
    Chainrings: XTR 44/34/24
    Chain: Sram PC-58
    Rear Cogs: Shimano eight speed Hyperglide 11-30
    Bottom Bracket: Shimano UN-71
    Front Derailleur: Shimano XTR
    Rear Derailleur: Shimano XT
    Shifters: Shimano XT eight-speed Rapidfire
    Handlebars: Branded Specialized (OEM)
    Grips: Dunoh. Some dual-density thing.
    Stem: Thompson Elite
    Headset: American Classic Ultra Light
    Brake set: Shimano XT V-brake
    Brake levers: Shimano XT
    Saddle: Selle Italia Flite (now tipped too far back)
    Seat Post: Control Tech
    Paint: Original silver with lots of touch-up paint globbed on
    Size: 20"
    Total weight: about 23 Lbs

  19. #19
    Hardrocker
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    Quote Originally Posted by a2psyklnut View Post
    That's for the shop to disassemble and reassemble your bike. If you just bring in the frame, you're golden.
    I like the way you think.

    But then, if I just bring in my frame, they would only replace my frame right? And you know, not all the other shiny bits that come with?

  20. #20
    Sneaky Fast....
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    Rus,

    Looks good! Been out riding lately?

    It is finally warming up here in Michigan! Been raining off & on all day, but at least it is warmer out today. I just hope it stays warm! I can't wait to get out & do some riding when the trail dries out!

    Chris

  21. #21
    Old Curmudgeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by green814 View Post
    Rus,

    Looks good! Been out riding lately?

    Nope. Still gobs of snow in the woods & on the trails. Yesterday (and later today) I was out X-C skiing. You know what they say about lemons.


  22. #22
    251
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    I like your '93. It looks like we had similar experiences with our Stumpjumpers. I have a '95 Stumpjumper M2 FS that has been through four forks, three canksets, several wheelsets and every other component except for the front derailleur. I currently have an '07 SID Race on my M2 along with a 120 mm 5 deg. stem:

    Dave
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  23. #23
    Old Curmudgeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by 251 View Post
    I like your '93. It looks like we had similar experiences with our Stumpjumpers. ...
    Very nice.Try an XTR front der. They don't cost too much and work fantastic.

    Do the recommended air pressures work OK with the SID Race? And the red dampening knob with the rabbit & the turtle (cute), did you find that it was easy to dial that in?

    Lastly, the Pure Delight dampening (I'm sorry, what a hokey name), what pressure do you use? They only give a broad range.

    Thanks

  24. #24
    Parrot Heads unite!
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    russiet,
    Any updates? I was wondering how the ride is with the new fork.
    2009 Surly Cross Check
    2000 Moots YBB factory reconditioned.
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    1997 GT Zaskar/Shimano XT with Spin rims
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  25. #25
    Old Curmudgeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaskar24 View Post
    russiet,
    Any updates? I was wondering how the ride is with the new fork.
    I've taken several 1 hour plus rides, but the closest to trail riding has onlyt been dirt roads. All the #6 raods & trails are still icey or very muddy. I mean really deep mud, the kind that sucks in your front wheel half way to the hub.

    The fork bobs a lot more than I'm used to, but that is to be expected. The ride feels great. No problems at all. But I still have more technical stuff that I'll try starting in a couple of more weeks.

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