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Old 02-29-08, 07:03 AM   #1
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Dream Spec on a highend all-mountain hardtail?

What specs do you feel are best for a really top end AM hardtail?

Especially frame material? Aluminum, CF, or Ti [or even highend steel?]

Which Fork?

Brakes?

Der/Shifters?

Crank?

Wheelset?

and what is your favorite tire?

[also - 26 vs 29]

I would love to see informed opinions
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Old 02-29-08, 07:26 AM   #2
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What specs do you feel are best for a really top end AM hardtail?

Especially frame material? Aluminum, CF, or Ti [or even highend steel?] Ti

Which Fork? Fox Talas RLC

Brakes? Magura Marta SL 180mm

Der/Shifters? SRAM X.0 grip shifts (or triggers), X.0 rear derailleur, XTR front derailleur

Crank? FSA Team Issue

Wheelset? Mavic Crossmax SLR

and what is your favorite tire? I'm a Schwalbe fan.

[also - 26 vs 29] I'm still a fan of 26'ers.

I would love to see informed opinions
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Old 02-29-08, 08:18 AM   #3
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this is my dream hardtail bike.
Look 986
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Old 02-29-08, 10:44 AM   #4
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What specs do you feel are best for a really top end AM hardtail?
That's a tough one; for me "top-end all-mountain" and "hardtail" do not belong in the same sentence.


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Old 02-29-08, 10:46 AM   #5
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I would love to see informed opinions
I would too...but you're on the wrong forum.
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Old 02-29-08, 11:05 AM   #6
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The Ti Fly that's coming is pretty much everything I'm looking for. OK, maybe the SID has it's problems, but the new one is meant to be better (although I'm assuming we're getting last year's model?).

There are a couple things I'm going to change. As Low Cel suggested, X.0 shifter (twist for me) and derailleurs. I like the shifters better than the Shimano Triggers and if you get those shifters, then you have to get the rear derailleur. I might leave the XTR front intially. The second is that I'm going to stick a little more tire under it. I appreciate that you chose a very light tire (385g!) that helps make the bike super light. But that's worth more in marketing that it is on the trail. If I ride on super skinny tires where I am, then it's 'hello ground' way more often that I'm prepared for. So I'll end up sticking different tires on the bike as well.

That's really about it.
Incidently, I don't know where the links to the Ti Fly are anymore (they seem to have vanished). How big of a tire can I stick in that fork/frame?


As far as the 26/29 thing goes, I'm fine with 26. How many people actually race 29's? I don't think it is very many if any.
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Old 02-29-08, 11:32 AM   #7
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What specs do you feel are best for a really top end AM hardtail?

Especially frame material? Aluminum, CF, or Ti [or even highend steel?] Aluminum or Titanium

Which Fork? TALAS RLC

Brakes? Hope Mini Pro

Der/Shifters? XTR all around

Crank? XT

Wheelset? I9

and what is your favorite tire? Continental or WTB

[also - 26 vs 29] 26"

I would love to see informed opinions
Now you have.
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Old 02-29-08, 11:34 AM   #8
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If it was a XC hardtail I would say ti or steel, but since its AM Id say aluminum, semi-slacker geometry, a nice Fox Talas RLC, SRAM X-0 group, 26".
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Old 02-29-08, 11:47 AM   #9
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I'm with Doug, "all mountain" and "hard tail" seem like an oxymoron!
Us older members like more comfort.
Titanium frame and 150 mm SID fork?
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Old 02-29-08, 12:28 PM   #10
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Reply in Lime Green...

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What specs do you feel are best for a really top end AM hardtail?

Especially frame material? Aluminum, CF, or Ti [or even highend steel?] Steel (True Temper XO Platinum or Reynolds 853)

Which Fork? Fox TALAS RLC

Brakes? Hope Mono Mini or Mini Pro

Der/Shifters? XTR

Crank? Profile

Wheelset? I9 Enduro

and what is your favorite tire? WTB or Kenda

[also - 26 vs 29] 26"

I would love to see informed opinions
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Old 02-29-08, 01:18 PM   #11
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What specs do you feel are best for a really top end AM hardtail?

Especially frame material? Aluminum, CF, or Ti [or even highend steel?] Steel (OX or 853) or Ti with room for at least 2.35" (2.5" preferred) tires

Which Fork? Fox F29

Brakes? Hope Mini, Avid Juicy Ultimates, or XTR

Der/Shifters? Sram XO triggers, rear D, XTR front

Crank? XT or XTR

Wheelset? 32 hole DT Swiss 240s hubs, Mavic XM 719 rims, DT comp spokes 3X, or Bonti Race X Lite, or CrossMAx29

and what is your favorite tire? I really like any Continental I've tried, but I have yet to try a Conti 29er

[also - 26 vs 29] 29", I made the leap and I'm not looking back

I would love to see informed opinions
I realize some of these choices seem to be very xc and not so all mtn. I should mention I weigh 140 and even the lightweight parts can hold up thru some pretty aggressive riding at my size.

On the 29ers and racing them... I think a lot of it depends on your region. I spend a lot of time in both Arizona and Oregon. In AZ with lots of rocks and rolling terrain, there are 29ers everywhere and tons of people race them. Here in Oregon, with bigger climbs and tighter trails, they're around, but not nearly as popular.

It took me a while to get used to how a 29er handled. I probably spent 10 hours riding it before it stopped feeling a little weird. After 15 hours I was cornering harder faster and keeping more speed all around. On a 26" I ran a 2.5 Conti Diesel in the front, and then a 2.1 Bontrager on the 29". They felt similar in the turns, but the 29 still felt bigger thru the bumps.
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Old 02-29-08, 06:51 PM   #12
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Low, slack, with lotsa' standover. 67* head angle with a Pike at 140mm. 16.5" seatstays. Keep the wheelbase short-ish. Spec with a 20mm axle fork - don't screw around with QR on a bike meant to do it all. Big tire room - that is one a lot of companies really screw up on. They make a bike with great geometry and sizing, then give you crap all for fat tire room in back.

Material? That depends on what sort of price point you're looking to hit.
Cheaper alu frame with nicer spec? Ti frame with lesser parts, or the same parts but more money? Steel - light or heavy tubeset? Give you the same issue as with alu or ti.
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Old 02-29-08, 07:00 PM   #13
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Answers are IMHO...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikesdirect_com View Post
What specs do you feel are best for a really top end AM hardtail?

Especially frame material? Aluminum, CF, or Ti [or even highend steel?]

Which Fork? Fox Talas, although the Manitou Minute MRD looks really nice.

Brakes? Hayes Strokers have been catching my eye.

Der/Shifters? XT

Crank? XT

Wheelset? I like the Mavic Crossmax ST's right now.

and what is your favorite tire? I'll get back to you.

[also - 26 vs 29] 26 for me. 29ers are cool, but not for everyone.

I would love to see informed opinions
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Old 02-29-08, 07:51 PM   #14
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What specs do you feel are best for a really top end AM hardtail?

Especially frame material? Aluminum, CF, or Ti [or even highend steel?]Steel

Which Fork? RS Lyric

Brakes?Carbon Juicy

Der/Shifters? Sram XO Blackbox

Crank? XTR w/Gamut bashguard

Wheelset?I9 Enduro Copper

and what is your favorite tire?Maxxis Minion rear/Highroller front

[also - 26 vs 29] 26

I would love to see informed opinions
Allllllllllllllllrighty then.
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Old 02-29-08, 08:05 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by bikesdirect_com View Post
What specs do you feel are best for a really top end AM hardtail?

Especially frame material? Aluminum, CF, or Ti [or even highend steel?]

Which Fork?

Brakes?

Der/Shifters?

Crank?

Wheelset?

and what is your favorite tire?

[also - 26 vs 29]

I would love to see informed opinions
Well, isn't this a little pointless? Since for forks you only use Rockshox, for the drivetrain you only use Shimano, and for the Brakes you only use Avid?

Why is it not possible to see Hope, Magura, and Fox components on a Motobecane?
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Old 03-01-08, 03:07 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dminor View Post
That's a tough one; for me "top-end all-mountain" and "hardtail" do not belong in the same sentence.


Enter Santa Cruz Chameleon.

Quote:
Especially frame material? Aluminum, CF, or Ti [or even highend steel?] Aluminum

Which Fork? Talas/Lyrik

Brakes? Old school XT, which obviously could not be done on an o the shelf bike. So XTR 8 Inch front and 6 inch back Alligator rotors.

Der/Shifters? XT rear, XTR front. XTR shifters.

Crank? Shimano hone, or XTR. Single ring with bashy and guide.

Wheelset? I9 Enduro of course, or a wheelcraft of some description.

and what is your favorite tire? Maxxis

[also - 26 vs 29] 26
That would kill it over here in WA for truly being an All Mountain hardtail to a T. A bike with semi-slack geo, not too tight, not too slack, would be able to ride pretty much everything we have here pretty amn well.

Looking forward to harov3's reaction to that.
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Old 03-01-08, 04:40 AM   #17
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Well, isn't this a little pointless? Since for forks you only use Rockshox, for the drivetrain you only use Shimano, and for the Brakes you only use Avid?

Why is it not possible to see Hope, Magura, and Fox components on a Motobecane?
We are very focused on after the sale backup by component suppliers. Shimano, Sram, Ritchey, Vuelta, and FSA are all great in this department.

We can use other brands easily; and we have quote for these and other makers. Fox we are looking at real close. Whenever we see an advantage on a given part for the consumer; we will use it. This is why I ask.

Of course, the input on frame material is very important too.

BTW the new Windsor Cliff 29er line is all Sram drivetrain. We will see how that sells; we tried sram spec 4 years ago and the turn rate was poor. However, today sram is really moving up in MTB spec.
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Old 03-01-08, 04:58 AM   #18
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The Ti Fly that's coming is pretty much everything I'm looking for. OK, maybe the SID has it's problems, but the new one is meant to be better (although I'm assuming we're getting last year's model?).

There are a couple things I'm going to change. As Low Cel suggested, X.0 shifter (twist for me) and derailleurs. I like the shifters better than the Shimano Triggers and if you get those shifters, then you have to get the rear derailleur. I might leave the XTR front intially. The second is that I'm going to stick a little more tire under it. I appreciate that you chose a very light tire (385g!) that helps make the bike super light. But that's worth more in marketing that it is on the trail. If I ride on super skinny tires where I am, then it's 'hello ground' way more often that I'm prepared for. So I'll end up sticking different tires on the bike as well.

That's really about it.
Incidently, I don't know where the links to the Ti Fly are anymore (they seem to have vanished). How big of a tire can I stick in that fork/frame?


As far as the 26/29 thing goes, I'm fine with 26. How many people actually race 29's? I don't think it is very many if any.

I am still unsure which version of SID [2008 v 2009] are on the first run. It is almost insane how hard it is to find these things out from OEM producers

My wife raced the Fly Team Ti sample with 2.125 tires and there was pleanty of room. I would think 2.3 would fit.

Part of the reason few race 29ers is weight; I feel
that is way I am working on a 22 or 23 lb 29er Ti XC bike - but that will take a lot of time.

as far the AM hardtail area - we get questions about that
and many people want a lighter and still more durable bike
hard to do - so very hard to find
So I would like to build a 25lb AM bike that will take a beating - but that is hard with a 4.5 lb fork
however, I am going to try and see what turns up

some far - I would like to use Ti as I have seen no reason for anyone to prefer AL or steel except price. Although some like the look of big tubes on AL frames
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Old 03-01-08, 07:47 AM   #19
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What specs do you feel are best for a really top end AM hardtail?

Especially frame material? Aluminum, CF, or Ti [or even highend steel?]
unpainted ti

Which Fork?
i like my bombers, thankyou

Brakes?
i'll say XT (separate levers), too many brands to choose

Der/Shifters?
ALL XT drivetrain, i don't want 'prototype' XTR or heavier parts, & i want some XT 9speed compatible twist or gripshift, or better choice in shifters

Crank?
as drivetrain, XT

Wheelset?
i like mavics, though too many to choose

and what is your favorite tire?
ritchey zmax evolution wcs
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Old 03-01-08, 01:08 PM   #20
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No matter the spec, I would want to go to a local bike shop and test ride it first.
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Old 03-01-08, 03:26 PM   #21
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We are very focused on after the sale backup by component suppliers. Shimano, Sram, Ritchey, Vuelta, and FSA are all great in this department.

We can use other brands easily; and we have quote for these and other makers. Fox we are looking at real close. Whenever we see an advantage on a given part for the consumer; we will use it. This is why I ask.

Of course, the input on frame material is very important too.

BTW the new Windsor Cliff 29er line is all Sram drivetrain. We will see how that sells; we tried sram spec 4 years ago and the turn rate was poor. However, today sram is really moving up in MTB spec.
Good to hear. I think putting Fox forks would help your business. Regardless of how much better Fox forks are.... people will look and say "hey look! Shiny!" and buy your products. Anyhow, I rode a Fox F100 on a friends bike and thought it was really, really nice...
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Old 03-01-08, 04:43 PM   #22
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and what is your favorite tire?
ritchey zmax evolution wcs
Is this your tire for the all mountain hardtail or just your favorite tire?? I find these narrow and fragile.
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Old 03-01-08, 07:34 PM   #23
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Answers in Green.

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Originally Posted by bikesdirect_com View Post

Especially frame material? Aluminum, CF, or Ti [or even highend steel?]Aluminum, 26x2.7 clearance.

Which Fork?Fox 36 Vanilla RC2


Brakes?Avid Juicy Carbons


Der/Shifters?XTR


Crank?FSA Gravity Light


Wheelset?Sun Ringle A.D.D Lights


and what is your favorite tire?Kenda Nevegal/Excavator


[also - 26 vs 29]26"
For rear shock: Fox DHX 5.0 air or coil.

Handlebar: FSA Gravity Carbon OS in the wide size.

Stem: FSA Gravity Light OS

Geometry wise, I'd like to see very aggressive angles and two travel settings for the rear suspension.
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Old 03-01-08, 08:38 PM   #24
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Answers in Green.



For rear shock: Fox DHX 5.0 air or coil.

Handlebar: FSA Gravity Carbon OS in the wide size.

Stem: FSA Gravity Light OS

Geometry wise, I'd like to see very aggressive angles and two travel settings for the rear suspension.

Excellent. I've got a DHX 5.0 Air coming for my new all mountain hardtail, too. Well see how it compares to the Swinger 4-Way Air and RS Pearl I've been running.
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Old 03-01-08, 08:48 PM   #25
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I misread the title, but even if I didn't for me, I wouldn't want an all mountain hardtail. If I did, I'd just get the same setup without the dhx.
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