Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 33
  1. #1
    Banned.
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    My Bikes
    Trek 3900
    Posts
    1,831
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Belt Driven bikes....

    Whats this about these belt drives instead of chains?
    I'm reading a magazine that had an article about it.
    What do you all think about this? I don't like the thought of belt drives, belts snap and can get all chipped up and can also strip down.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    676
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    They're about 2-3 times as strong as chains, and last like 7 times longer, these are already used on car secondary drive systems, lawn mowers, helicopters, etc.

    I strongly favor the internal hub gearing which is neccesary for this system, Internal hub gear is far superior to cassette type. They never became super popular because older models were trash and had a limited gearing range. But new ones have made enormous improvements over the old internally geared hubs.

    I always thought that chains were slightly primitive (yes, i know they have alot of physics and engineering aplied to them) and am amazed at the potential (yet enormous) improvements to gearing through internally geared hubs.

    Im fairly optimistic about it.

  3. #3
    Banned.
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    My Bikes
    Trek 3900
    Posts
    1,831
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    A belt is also stiffer is it not? That would make it harder to pedal.

  4. #4
    Generic Title ProFail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    My Bikes
    2008 Trek Fuel EX7, 2007 Trek 1600, 2007 Eastern Warthog
    Posts
    1,927
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheeto View Post
    A belt is also stiffer is it not? That would make it harder to pedal.
    I don't beleive a stiffer belt or chain would make any difference in pedaling efficiency. I may be wrong, but I'd say you'd want a stiffer chain or belt to prevent chain slap from occuring.

    I also agree with the fact that belts are superior to chains. The main points have already been made, but they definitelty should last long and seem as if they are easier to maintain. However, not enough research has gone into bicycle belt drives, and theres not much selection, so I'm refraining from buying one.

    It seems like the current offerings are perfect from commuters, however.


    CMIIW

    EDIT- Crap, I'm agreeing with Elf. Now I'm sure I'm wrong.
    Generic Joke

  5. #5
    Hardrocker
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,569
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    A belt drive system that approaches the efficiency of a chain drive system has get to be discovered.

  6. #6
    Generic Title ProFail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    My Bikes
    2008 Trek Fuel EX7, 2007 Trek 1600, 2007 Eastern Warthog
    Posts
    1,927
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BenLi View Post
    A belt drive system that approaches the efficiency of a chain drive system has get to be discovered.
    Just wondering, do they use chains or belts on most sport (motor)bikes? The guy at my LBS has a chain driven system.
    Generic Joke

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    My Bikes
    A coupla Schwinns
    Posts
    68
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i believe harleys and buells have belts.
    with a mtb, though i think that dirt/mud would be a problem.
    road bikes maybe?

  8. #8
    Generic Title ProFail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    My Bikes
    2008 Trek Fuel EX7, 2007 Trek 1600, 2007 Eastern Warthog
    Posts
    1,927
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTrain View Post
    i believe harleys and buells have belts.
    with a mtb, though i think that dirt/mud would be a problem.
    road bikes maybe?
    It seems like a belt would actually be better off in the mud. You know, know little notches to get clogged, et cetera. If efficiency was truly a problem, than a road bike is better off with a chain.
    Generic Joke

  9. #9
    Hardrocker
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,569
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ProFail View Post
    Just wondering, do they use chains or belts on most sport (motor)bikes? The guy at my LBS has a chain driven system.
    When the power available is in the range of hundreds of horsepower, the inefficiency caused is negligible, especially when the tires would break grip from the ground before all the horsepower is used. In a bike, with a human as the 'engine', the circumstances are quite different.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    southern oregon
    Posts
    2,631
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by elf 232 View Post
    They're about 2-3 times as strong as chains, and last like 7 times longer, these are already used on car secondary drive systems, lawn mowers, helicopters, etc.
    Please explain why engine timing chains can usually last the life of the engine, while timing belts need to be replaced regularly, say every 60k miles.

  11. #11
    Generic Title ProFail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    My Bikes
    2008 Trek Fuel EX7, 2007 Trek 1600, 2007 Eastern Warthog
    Posts
    1,927
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mcoine View Post
    Please explain why engine timing chains can usually last the life of the engine, while timing belts need to be replaced regularly, say every 60k miles.
    Obviously the chains are enchanted with LVL4 HARDENING.
    Generic Joke

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    My Bikes
    A coupla Schwinns
    Posts
    68
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ProFail View Post
    It seems like a belt would actually be better off in the mud. You know, know little notches to get clogged, et cetera. If efficiency was truly a problem, than a road bike is better off with a chain.
    belt will have notches.

  13. #13
    NitroPye
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ProFail View Post
    Obviously the chains are enchanted with LVL4 HARDENING.
    RIP Gary Gygax

  14. #14
    Generic Title ProFail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    My Bikes
    2008 Trek Fuel EX7, 2007 Trek 1600, 2007 Eastern Warthog
    Posts
    1,927
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTrain View Post
    belt will have notches.
    I mean, the area in between each link. I know the belt will have notches, but it won't get clogged.
    Generic Joke

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    705
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I suppose it would depend on the profile of the belt, but it seems like mud getting between the belt and the pulleys would be a problem, since there's less room for the mud to squish out...?

  16. #16
    Bike Junkie roccobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    South of Raleigh, North of New Hill, East of Harris Lake, NC
    My Bikes
    Giant OCR-C, Specialized Tarmac, Specialized Stumpjumper FSR, Stumpjumper Comp, 05 Rockhopper, 88 & 92Nishiki Ariel, 01 Bianchi Campione, 87 Centurion Ironman, 92 Paramount, 97 Lemond
    Posts
    9,001
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I read an article in one of the bike mags, Bicycling I think, that said belts and internal hubs are being tested in hybrids and will transfer to road and MTBs if they can assure durability and reduce their weight. I think the derailers days may be numbered.
    Roccobike BF Official Thread Terminator

  17. #17
    POWERCRANK addict markhr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    North Acton, West London, UK
    Posts
    3,783
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Personally, it's the way foward. Nicolai also seem to think so and have started using them on their G-boxx bikes.

    www.carbondrivesystems.com/

    www.nicolai.net/
    shameless POWERCRANK plug
    Recommended reading for all cyclists - Cyclecraft - Effective Cycling
    Condor Cycles - quite possibly the best bike shop in London
    Don't run red lights, wear a helmet, use hand signals, get some cycle lights(front and rear) and, FFS, don't run red lights!

  18. #18
    BFG
    BFG is offline
    Just say no to brakes. BFG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Guildford...Perth...Western Australia
    My Bikes
    Giant Rincon, Sanki road bike, Iron Horse SGS and DBR BSX Comp.
    Posts
    1,689
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ah the ole Belt/Internally geared/G-boxx discussion, always a forum favourite for the tech heads.

    Personally, i think it's only a matter of time until the major manufacturers start developing and releasing easily accessible, servicable, strong and long lasting internally geared hubs, it is by far the way of the future. The question is not if but when.

    Yes, yes, the Rohloff and G-Boxx still exist now, but are uber expensive and not as easy to get parts for as your chips and salt Shimano/SRAM cassette drivetrain.

    If I had the money, my DH bike - soon to be replaced - would run Rohloff. But it won't.
    I will leave my speel there.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    676
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mcoine View Post
    Please explain why engine timing chains can usually last the life of the engine, while timing belts need to be replaced regularly, say every 60k miles.
    Its really a completely different matter, engine belts do not drive by using teeth (the ones iv seen anyway) they drive by having a tight contact (friction) with the pulleys on either end, so combined with the flap due to the size of a timing belt (versus the size of a bike belt) more flap is created creating wear on the belt, bike belts work off of teeth, so this problem is negated.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    southern oregon
    Posts
    2,631
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by elf 232 View Post
    Its really a completely different matter, engine belts do not drive by using teeth (the ones iv seen anyway) they drive by having a tight contact (friction) with the pulleys on either end, so combined with the flap due to the size of a timing belt (versus the size of a bike belt) more flap is created creating wear on the belt, bike belts work off of teeth, so this problem is negated.
    Engine timing belts do have teeth, how else would the cams stay in time?

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    676
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mcoine View Post
    Engine timing belts do have teeth, how else would the cams stay in time?
    Maybe im thinking of something else then, im no car mechanic. Either way its been tested on bikes, they last 7x longer.

  22. #22
    World's slowest cyclist.
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Londonderry, NH
    My Bikes
    Cannondale CAAD5 and Cannondale Rush
    Posts
    1,353
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mcoine View Post
    Please explain why engine timing chains can usually last the life of the engine, while timing belts need to be replaced regularly, say every 60k miles.
    Do you know how many bike miles would translate to 60k car miles? I don't know if anyone would live long enough to wear out such a system on their bike. Compare that to the constant maintenance bikes require: chain lube, deraileur adjustment, chain and gear replacements, etc... Bikes are VERY maintenance intensive compared to cars. I routinely go 7500 miles without doing any maintenance on my car, and it probably has 1000x the moving parts count as my bike.

    To answer the question, timing chains can last the life of the engine because they live in a very benign environment, sealed away from dirt, dust, and grime.

  23. #23
    POWERCRANK addict markhr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    North Acton, West London, UK
    Posts
    3,783
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_F View Post
    Do you know how many bike miles would translate to 60k car miles? I don't know if anyone would live long enough to wear out such a system on their bike. Compare that to the constant maintenance bikes require: chain lube, deraileur adjustment, chain and gear replacements, etc... Bikes are VERY maintenance intensive compared to cars. I routinely go 7500 miles without doing any maintenance on my car, and it probably has 1000x the moving parts count as my bike.

    To answer the question, timing chains can last the life of the engine because they live in a very benign environment, sealed away from dirt, dust, and grime.
    The system wears out more quickly on bicycles because we, as human engines, are much less tolerant of inefficiency in the drive train. It would be nice if there were bike drive systems that were as long lasting as IC vehicles but I don't think any of us would appreciate the piss poor efficiency of ~20-30%.
    shameless POWERCRANK plug
    Recommended reading for all cyclists - Cyclecraft - Effective Cycling
    Condor Cycles - quite possibly the best bike shop in London
    Don't run red lights, wear a helmet, use hand signals, get some cycle lights(front and rear) and, FFS, don't run red lights!

  24. #24
    Banned.
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    My Bikes
    Trek 3900
    Posts
    1,831
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I know ATV's don't have belt drives.
    They stick with chains.

  25. #25
    ಠ_ಠ DevilsGT2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    SF
    My Bikes
    One of the first Aluminum Rockhoppers to come with front suspension.
    Posts
    624
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I sincerely hope that the belt-drive/internal hub gearing system replaces the chain/deraileur system, if for any reason that it would make riding in the mud so much less maintenance intensive.
    Singletrack Mind

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •