Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Mountain Biking Mountain biking is one of the fastest growing sports in the world. Check out this forum to discuss the latest tips, tricks, gear and equipment in the world of mountain biking.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-01-08, 02:13 PM   #1
Zan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Zan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Waterloo, ONT
Bikes: Road: Trek 1.5 (2007). Mountain: Santa Cruz Chameleon (2008). Beater: Peugeot Recorde du Monde (1850)
Posts: 1,417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Trail Construction

Hello!

I'm sorry if i shouldn't be posting this topic in this section, but i figured this was the best place to post.

Trail Construction.

My friend + i are working on about 9 km of trail around my neighborhood. The land we're building on is part of a big conservation area - it's part of the town. I looked under the town's bylaws, and technically building wooden structures to enhance the "off-the-path" trails through the woods (where no one goes) is not illegal. As long as we don't kill any plants, harm the animals, or pollute with chemicals/garbage, it looks like things are cool. Another rule is that we can't attach anything to the trees - nail stuff to the trees, or tie, or w.e.

Anyways, we've started to encounter problems. We are trying to build structures over the deep mud spots (most of the trails are along rivers, and water flows into them). As well, we're trying to build a bridge to actually cross the river. Our problem is the vandals who transverse the path sometimes. You know, those punk kids who do the graffiti and deface property and whatnot. At least, I'm assuming it's them - i assume those walking their dog along the path have better things to do than destroy structures enhancing the trails they walk.

They're not destroying the actual structures - we built them too strong. Instead, they're picking them up and moving them around! It's a pain in the ... we want to embark upon building the bridge across the river. it's gonna cost a fair chunk of change for it (plan to build it extra strong + large, so it's safe). We don't want the vandals to simply knock the bridge into the river and let it float off.

My question to you is: how would you construct the bridge so that the vandals don't destroy what we build? My friend + i have come up with a few ideas, but i'm open to other suggestions that may be more effective.

Thanks in Advance!
Zan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-08, 02:32 PM   #2
Nickds7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: '07 Giant Yukon
Posts: 225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Interesting, do you have pics of the structures?
Nickds7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-08, 02:42 PM   #3
Zan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Zan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Waterloo, ONT
Bikes: Road: Trek 1.5 (2007). Mountain: Santa Cruz Chameleon (2008). Beater: Peugeot Recorde du Monde (1850)
Posts: 1,417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
not at the moment.

they're not that pretty. much of it is made out of scrap wood from various salvage jobs... we plan on painting 'em green + brown so they blend in with the rest of the trail (makes things pretty).

when the trails are done, i'll post pics, for sure.

my friend + i are thinking of just chaining the bridge to a tree, looping the chain around the supporting struts of the bridge. as well, we'd bury the ends of the bridge into the banks along the river, so it's nice and secure in the ground.... if the vandals want to destroy the bridge, they'd have to totally disassemble the bridge.

Anyone do trail construction? does anyone have any tips or techniques they would helpful? Just keep in mind my friend + i are on a low budget for materials used in the construction...

Can anyone post pics of stuff they've built? That'd be neat.
Zan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-08, 03:32 PM   #4
DevilsGT2
ಠ_ಠ
 
DevilsGT2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF
Bikes: One of the first Aluminum Rockhoppers to come with front suspension.
Posts: 624
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I wouldn't chain it to anything, that would seem like you're escalating the battle. Painting it may also violate the chemicals part of the bylaws, depending on what you use. Building it into the banks seems like a good idea, you could also use heavier peices of wood that are more cumbersome to move. If there's space and the lead-in fits, you might also try building few kickers instead of bridges.

P.S. In before illegal-trail-mod-nanny.
DevilsGT2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-08, 04:07 PM   #5
rankin116
Senior Member
 
rankin116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ChapelBorro NC
Bikes:
Posts: 3,986
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
My advice is to contact the land management so they don't take your bridge. Get them in on the project, and they may allow you to anchor it so you don't lose it. Otherwise, either the vandals or the people managing the land most likely will remove it.
rankin116 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-08, 04:11 PM   #6
Zan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Zan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Waterloo, ONT
Bikes: Road: Trek 1.5 (2007). Mountain: Santa Cruz Chameleon (2008). Beater: Peugeot Recorde du Monde (1850)
Posts: 1,417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
no one manages the land, there, really. the particular area i'm working in acts as a buffer between the highways and the local subdivisions. i've never seen anyone other than dog walkers + kids walking/riding the trails.
Zan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-08, 04:16 PM   #7
dirtbikedude
Gravity Is Yer Friend
 
dirtbikedude's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Over the Hill" and going down fast in the 805.
Bikes: Scott Gambler, Scott Ransom, Kona Bear, Bianchi 928 Carbon/Chorus, C'Dale Rize4
Posts: 2,961
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I find a set up like this helps keep the vandals away.



Now on a serious note, I would suggest contacting whom ever is in charge of that land. If they are anti-cycling and find your "builds" it will give them that much more ammo to keep bicycles out. If they are pro-bicycle then they might even help out. If they could care less weather bikes are allowed or not then try and sell them on yer proposal and you will have no worries if/when someone gives you a hard time about it.

As far as "dog walkers" moving your builds, it very well could be. Some of them are, shall we say, uppity old (sometimes young) shytes who feel every and all trails is for them and them alone.

DBD
dirtbikedude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-08, 05:43 PM   #8
apclassic9
Caustic Soccer Mom
 
apclassic9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Millstone WV
Bikes:
Posts: 1,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
SOMEONE manages the land - especially since it's part of a conservation area. Find your local Conservation Officer, Park Warden - whatever you call them - and get them on board. You may just find out that they are the ones moving your structures!
__________________
As with mud, life, too, slides by.
apclassic9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-08, 05:44 PM   #9
Zan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Zan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Waterloo, ONT
Bikes: Road: Trek 1.5 (2007). Mountain: Santa Cruz Chameleon (2008). Beater: Peugeot Recorde du Monde (1850)
Posts: 1,417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i hear ya
Zan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-08, 08:34 PM   #10
pinkrobe
DNPAIMFB
 
pinkrobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cowtown, AB
Bikes: Titus El Guapo, Misfit diSSent, Cervelo Soloist Carbon, Wabi Lightning, et al.
Posts: 4,654
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you want to get more info on trail building, go here, here and here.
__________________
Proud Member of the HHCMF
'06 Cervelo Soloist Carbon | '09 Titus El Guapo | '09 Misfit diSSent | '09 Wabi Lightning
pinkrobe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-08, 12:50 PM   #11
urban_rider64
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I second all the stuff above about contacting people, but if you really want to chain it to something, dig a small trench back say, 10 feet, on either side, lay the chain down, then, loop it losely around the tree. If they cant see it, they wont know it's there. That way you're not escalating anything, but if someone decides to attempt to move it, they're out of luck.
urban_rider64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-08, 01:22 PM   #12
never
Custom User
 
never's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: T0L0K0
Bikes:
Posts: 3,739
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
How big is the "river"? By using the term "river", I'm assuming it's at least 5 m wide. Are you going to clear-span the bridge? If not, you'll need to get a Fisheries Act authorization (or maybe a Letter of Advice) from DFO (and maybe something from the ON government), especially if you want something permanent. You really should contact the land owner if you want to put something permanent like that. You'll also need some hydraulic info so you put the bridge high enough up the banks to avoid any lower return year flood events. Don't want it washing out after every 1:2 or 1:5 event.
never is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-09, 01:54 PM   #13
frothyllama
Member
 
frothyllama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: long island
Bikes: Next powerclimber Trek 3 Series 3500
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
you should dig big holes put a log in chain the log and then bury it!!!!
frothyllama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-09, 02:47 PM   #14
btjzx6rr
Senior Member
 
btjzx6rr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Georgia Tech
Bikes: scott speedster s3
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
is concrete a chemical? its really just rock, dust, and water, so may be able to get by.

id say dig some posts in the end by where the bridge goes across, and concrete them in, then fill the soil back in. if you concrete some 4 x 4's in and then build from there, then it will take a chainsaw to bring the thing down. plus it is removable if its a problem, as you just have to dig out the concrete (pain, but doable)
btjzx6rr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-09, 02:52 PM   #15
ca7erham
****** (can I say this?)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CO
Bikes:
Posts: 1,900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Bear Banger and string across the trail.
ca7erham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-09, 03:12 PM   #16
WannaGetGood
Commited Suicide
 
WannaGetGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Abbotsford.BC
Bikes: 2001 Kona Stuff & 2004 Rocky Mountain Switch SL
Posts: 2,416
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would try to maybe find a more natural way. Maybe try and find a tree that has fallen over, how deep is this river? if you dont mind getting wet than put poles in the river to make sure that they have a good ground, should be hard to push over. I wish that I could come out and help you, I just dont the time to help on my mountain.
WannaGetGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-09, 06:11 PM   #17
Zan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Zan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Waterloo, ONT
Bikes: Road: Trek 1.5 (2007). Mountain: Santa Cruz Chameleon (2008). Beater: Peugeot Recorde du Monde (1850)
Posts: 1,417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
this thread was created a long time ago... i've built the bridge. i found a iron netting nearby to hold rocks back from falling into the river. the rocks provide a stable artificial bank. i chained one of the struts to the grid... it prevents the bridge from washing down the river during the spring run off, and stops people from digging up the bridge and walking away with it.

no problems as of yet.

edit:

actually, i have been finding these signs by the entrances of the parks... and they're offering to build permanent bridges at the EXACT places my team and i have built bridges.

i don't want them to do it. i fear it'll turn the trail into a pedestrian highway. it'll ruin the "natural feel" of the forest. the stuff my crew and i build is mostly made out of fallen trees, sometimes with scrap 2x4's as planking. it's very "rustic." it blends in nicely with the trail imo.

the way the trail system currently is built is that you have to know where to go to get there... meaning you have to be a local who lives on the trail. if they start making the trails public, i fear they'll do some stupid crud like lay a peat trail that makes your bike roll at 4 - 5 km/h (i've seen this happen elsewhere where i live.)

Last edited by Zan; 02-22-09 at 06:14 PM.
Zan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-09, 06:14 PM   #18
ca7erham
****** (can I say this?)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CO
Bikes:
Posts: 1,900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ha, I didnt even see the date.
ca7erham is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:55 PM.