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Old 05-07-08, 09:22 PM   #1
patentcad
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All the pros seem to race hard tails. Where are the dual boingers boys?

At the World Cup in Madrid that is. Every photo I saw on the Velo News website (6-8 shots) showed pros on hard tail MTBs, not a dual suspension rig in sight. Is that typical for pro racers these days? Does it vary with the terrain/course? One women racer there even had a Seven Ti hard tail. Pretty cool.

Given all the hype I hear about dual boinger MTBs that surprised me. At the end of the day a light, good climbing hard tail MTB might be faster in many situations I suppose. Dual suspension is great, but that's a few pounds you have to drag up every incline. I have been told that dual boingers climb better in many situations by keeping that rear wheel planted better. So go figure.

All the harder core MTB dudes I know are dual suspension fans. Pcad is a total MTB idiot and rides a hard tail.
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Old 05-07-08, 09:29 PM   #2
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-Course dependent
-Weight-watching


There are some pros that will almost always use full suspension, but I don't know a whole lot oabout the professional XC racing world. Like in road, pros don't always make the most logical equipment choices, I guess. They're paid for their legs and lungs, in many cases.
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Old 05-07-08, 09:40 PM   #3
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I saw Eatough out for a joy ride and he was riding a hard tail. One of the big things i think is that even XC'ers when they go downhills like to hit some stuff and really enjoy what they worked so hard to get up to. But for the pros biking is an every day event, they go past a drop and dont really mind riding right past it. I guess for me it could be best related to going skiing in Canada for three weeks on the same mountain, by the time the last week comes, you dont push it you just cruise down the mountain, you have done it all before. Since FS are usually for comfort when going over technical stuff, i suppose the pros would rather go for speed then hitting that kind of stuff over and over.
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Old 05-07-08, 09:44 PM   #4
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A lot of xc racing courses are really tame, technically, compared to the trails that many of us non-racers ride on out in the real world.

Since I don't have $20k to spend on various bikes, I need a decent do-it-all bike.. which for me is a lightweight fs bike.
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Old 05-07-08, 11:58 PM   #5
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A lot of xc racing courses are really tame, technically, compared to the trails that many of us non-racers ride on out in the real world.

Since I don't have $20k to spend on various bikes, I need a decent do-it-all bike.. which for me is a lightweight fs bike.
All you really need is a nice Ritchey seat post.
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Old 05-08-08, 05:29 AM   #6
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a hardtail with a carbon post and tubeless tires will do fine in most XC conditions. i've noticed that the more fit i am the easier it is to ride a hardtail. right now, i need a duallie!!!
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Old 05-08-08, 07:40 AM   #7
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For XC racing purposes, a HT is usually a lighter, faster choice - especially when you consider that most xc races are won on the uphill, not the down (they're LOST on the downhill - when the racer crashes!)
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Old 05-08-08, 07:54 AM   #8
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I'm not suprised that a hardtail is a faster choice on some of these race courses. What does suprise me is that we don't see more pros riding full suspension on these courses, even though it's the slower choice. After all, racing isn't about winning, it's about advertising and I'd assume sponsors would want to advertiser their more expensive, assumably higher profit FS lineup more than their hardtails.
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Old 05-08-08, 08:06 AM   #9
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All the "dual boingers boys" are in Maribor this week.
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Old 05-08-08, 08:35 AM   #10
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dual boinging is a marketing scheme/ fad that was perpetrated on us MTB folks by 'Big Bike' in an effort to further soften our pudding like mid sections. Being 7/8's roadie already, and exhibiting high levels of self loathing in regards to weight, the XC pros are the first who are waking up to this fact.
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Old 05-08-08, 08:40 AM   #11
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I'm not suprised that a hardtail is a faster choice on some of these race courses. What does suprise me is that we don't see more pros riding full suspension on these courses, even though it's the slower choice. After all, racing isn't about winning, it's about advertising and I'd assume sponsors would want to advertiser their more expensive, assumably higher profit FS lineup more than their hardtails.
Sponsors would still rather their riders do well... only the top few get their shots on velonews or cyclingnews or pez.

You will find a mixed bag here in north america, since some of our courses are faster on a FS (like mt. snow, mont st. anne, etc). But the courses in europe are exceptionally tame, especially on the ups and flats. They throw in some techy downhills every now and then, but not enough to warrant a FS. In racing, a hardtail is usually just as fast going down, so the only advantage of a FS is if there are flat or uphill sections that are very rough - the FS allows a racer to sit and keep momentum.
Europe as roadified their xc racing, which I think is lame. There were a few big races last year where guys won on cross bikes... that's just wrong.
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Old 05-08-08, 08:49 AM   #12
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Was watching some mtb world cup races online, and technically i could ride it, except maybe 1 section per course.

There were sections on road, fire road, gravel, dirt path, grass.

Kinda different than watching road racing in which i know there is no way in hell I could survive the same course (ie alp d'huez) as the pros.
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Old 05-08-08, 09:20 AM   #13
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There's a reason the pros hated coming to WV to race NORBA at Snowshoe... and it was the technical, rooty, rocky, bumpy stuff which comprises an average WV xc race trail.
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Old 05-08-08, 09:42 AM   #14
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Because as some others have alluded to, many of the upper level and world cup races are fast, fast courses, with much less hard technical riding involved then smaller series and many local races. And in comparison to the trails that many of us ride for fun rather than racing.

Caveat: there are some very techy XC courses out there, but they seem to be the exceptions.
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Old 05-08-08, 09:44 AM   #15
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So if the pro racers are the "cool kids" of the mountain bike world we should all seek to do what they do. Why not? We buy all the gear. We should also stick to the fire roads and the non-technical trails too.
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Old 05-08-08, 10:45 AM   #16
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There's a reason the pros hated coming to WV to race NORBA at Snowshoe... and it was the technical, rooty, rocky, bumpy stuff which comprises an average WV xc race trail.
That and we had to run half the damn thing every year because of the mud.
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Old 05-08-08, 10:48 AM   #17
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All you really need is a nice Ritchey seat post.
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Old 05-08-08, 10:59 AM   #18
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a hardtail with a carbon post and tubeless tires will do fine in most XC conditions.
I agree ... except for the carbon post part. Do a blind test with all other variables equal. You will not be able to determine if the post is carbon or any other material. Just try it before you dismiss the idea.

I do the same thing (blind test) with domestic beer. I laugh every time somebody says "I can't stand (insert bland domestic beer here), I only drink (insert bland domestic beer here). I then challenge them to a blind taste test. I've not lost yet.

... Brad
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Old 05-08-08, 12:44 PM   #19
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I"m no expert on the matter, but I too suspect the Euro XC race circuit trails are nothing compared to things we mortals ride on a regular basis.
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Old 05-08-08, 12:49 PM   #20
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dual boinging is a marketing scheme/ fad that was perpetrated on us MTB folks by 'Big Bike' in an effort to further soften our pudding like mid sections. Being 7/8's roadie already, and exhibiting high levels of self loathing in regards to weight, the XC pros are the first who are waking up to this fact.
Dang right. In fact I always hated the term All Mountain. The fastest bike for a complete ride including uphills and downhills is an XC bike so that should be called "All Mountain." And as discussed, the fastest of the fast bikes for complete uphill and downhill courses are almost always hardtails. Full suspension is just a way to make riding easier, but not necessarily faster. Oh, and it's a good way to convince someone to spend 3k+ on a bicycle with 37 bushings or bearings that need regular service at the LBS.

I think these new full suspension setups are ridiculously expensive, weighty, hideous looking setup and maintenence nightmares that ought to ride the bike for you for all the time and money you sacrifice. Yet in acutality, on all but some rare oddball trails they don't even make your ride any faster at all.
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Old 05-08-08, 01:01 PM   #21
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Dang right. In fact I always hated the term All Mountain. The fastest bike for a complete ride including uphills and downhills is an XC bike so that should be called "All Mountain." And as discussed, the fastest of the fast bikes for complete uphill and downhill courses are almost always hardtails. Full suspension is just a way to make riding easier, but not necessarily faster. Oh, and it's a good way to convince someone to spend 3k+ on a bicycle with 37 bushings or bearings that need regular service at the LBS.

I think these new full suspension setups are ridiculously expensive, weighty, hideous looking setup and maintenence nightmares that ought to ride the bike for you for all the time and money you sacrifice. Yet in acutality, on all but some rare oddball trails they don't even make your ride any faster at all.
I sincerely hope that nobody listens to or takes you seriously in person either.
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Old 05-08-08, 01:12 PM   #22
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I sincerely hope that nobody listens to or takes you seriously in person either.
I sure didn't. The pro's will race the duallies when the track dictates it. And they'll be faster on the duallies than the hardtails on those tracks.
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Old 05-11-08, 07:20 AM   #23
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I did my first race event in the WI WORS series last weekend. Most every Comp and Elite rider was on a hardtail. You really didn't need a full suspension bike on this course. I have a Cannondale Rush Team Replica bike that I race, but I just purchased a 2000 Kona Ku hardtail to play around with. I'm taking the hardtail next time to the trail I frequent the most and I'll be shocked if I set a new PB on the Kona. Maybe I'll take both bikes and time myself doing some hill repeats and see which bike is faster.
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Old 05-11-08, 08:13 AM   #24
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I did my first race event in the WI WORS series last weekend. Most every Comp and Elite rider was on a hardtail. You really didn't need a full suspension bike on this course. I have a Cannondale Rush Team Replica bike that I race, but I just purchased a 2000 Kona Ku hardtail to play around with. I'm taking the hardtail next time to the trail I frequent the most and I'll be shocked if I set a new PB on the Kona. Maybe I'll take both bikes and time myself doing some hill repeats and see which bike is faster.
I raced my XLT last year during the SSG here in KS. I took 1st place in my semi-pro class. (I was the only one in my class)

I DID get beat by 1minute by a long legged hick in the class 10yrs older than me, hahahahha.
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Old 05-11-08, 08:30 AM   #25
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All the "dual boingers boys" are in Maribor this week.
This is true, and on fire with Atherton just taking himself the hotseat.
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