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  1. #1
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    Feelings on under $3000 CF or Ti Hardtail Market

    What is out there that is impressive in exotic frame material hardtails? I can see the Scott Scale 30 as being a sub 24 lb trail type competitior.

    The Fantom Pro Ti is in this market with Ti, 100mm Sid, LX/XT, Juicy 7, and 1800 gram precision bearing wheels. But at 22.5 lbs - what other bikes are an interesting build for the HT rider who wants to be under $3000?

    And of course, there is the ever present question; are there many who want to ride HT at this price point? Or has the market gone completely FS?

    http://www.bikesdirect.com

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." Mahatma Gandhi

  2. #2
    Hardrocker
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    I cannot comment on behalf of all riders, but I know that for myself, I wouldn't be looking at Hardtail if I had $3000.

  3. #3
    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    Your current Ti Fly at $2099 is a very attractive price point, as evidenced by the quick sell out of the popular sizes. I was 2 days too slow on that one. I am trying to wait for the fall shipment... but even at the current price, it's a close call with the $1699 aluminum version. If the price goes up, I would have to fall back to aluminum for sure.

  4. #4
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect_com View Post
    What is out there that is impressive in exotic frame material hardtails? I can see the Scott Scale 30 as being a sub 24 lb trail type competitior.

    The Fantom Pro Ti is in this market with Ti, 100mm Sid, LX/XT, Juicy 7, and 1800 gram precision bearing wheels. But at 22.5 lbs - what other bikes are an interesting build for the HT rider who wants to be under $3000?

    And of course, there is the ever present question; are there many who want to ride HT at this price point? Or has the market gone completely FS?

    Where on your website is the Fantom Pro Ti MTB?

  5. #5
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    I think $2000 tends to be the cut off point for great hardtail being greater than FS with middle of the line components. At $3000 i feel like i could get the FS without sacrificing on the components.

    Example:

    your $2100 Ti hardtail (the $1700 is probably a better comparison) has top of the line everything ( well most things) but for even $2400 on a stuntjumper FSR comp i get X-7 shifters and other lower end (but still very good) components.

    So at 2000 I would still look HT because you get better stuff by the time you hit $3000 even the expensive FS bikes have XT type components which with a rear shock is greater than a HT with XTR IMO

  6. #6
    Senior Member Rutnick's Avatar
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    zero interest. none and I own a HT but my Stumpjumper and 5"+ of travel sees more battles now.

  7. #7
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutnick View Post
    my Stumpjumper and 5"+ of travel sees more battles now.
    Who are you at war with trail weenie?

  8. #8
    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    I think I'd get ti hardtail at that price. Matter of fact, I had one waiting for me but I opted for the road bike instead.

    Now I want the hardtail again.

    *sigh*
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    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

  9. #9
    M_S
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    29ers might be a better option for higher end hardtails. Look at the 29er section in MTBR. Most of the guys are on hardtails or even fully rigids and still sink a lot of cash into their bikes. They're also very open to "exotic" steels and Ti.

    I don't think that you'll capture the Jones and Merlin market, as a lot of that is about brand image, but 29 inch wheels make a hardtail a little more viable IMO.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect_com View Post
    What is out there that is impressive in exotic frame material hardtails? I can see the Scott Scale 30 as being a sub 24 lb trail type competitior.

    The Fantom Pro Ti is in this market with Ti, 100mm Sid, LX/XT, Juicy 7, and 1800 gram precision bearing wheels. But at 22.5 lbs - what other bikes are an interesting build for the HT rider who wants to be under $3000?

    And of course, there is the ever present question; are there many who want to ride HT at this price point? Or has the market gone completely FS?

    When are your bikes coming out with the new SID?

    es

  11. #11
    Senior Member Rutnick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
    Who are you at war with trail weenie?
    who or whatever is in my way at the time. That and I like plowing through things now. doing the HT thing for years and finally breaking that race FS bike makes me now appreciate 5+ inches of travel.

    I still ride the HT from time to time and even race on it depending on the trail but for all day comfort....nothing beats a FS 5+" trailbike.

  12. #12
    one less horse cryptid01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect_com View Post
    I can see the Scott Scale 30 as being a sub 24 lb trail type competitior.
    You mean this one?



    Yeah, nice bike.

  13. #13
    M_S
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    That bike is lame. Get the Scale limited.

  14. #14
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M_S View Post
    That bike is lame. Get the Scale limited.
    How would you know? Have you ever ridden a Ti bike, let alone a Ti hard tail?

    I own the Fly Ti. I've owned 4 hard tails. The bike is far from lame.

  15. #15
    "I'm OK!" dminor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect_com View Post
    . . . And of course, there is the ever present question; are there many who want to ride HT at this price point?
    I'm dying to know the outcome to this question - - and then figure out how else to tap into that "more money than good sense" market.

  16. #16
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    Depends on your MTB needs. A typical MTB ride for me: 10 miles on the road, 10 miles in the woods (I ride to and from my riding terrain) and I don't ride very technical terrain. I also use the bike as a road bike with snow tires when the roads are wintery. So perfect for me. But were I a more hard core MTB dude, I'd get a full suspension.

    There's a place for hard tails - lots of hard core racers - and less hard core MTBers like me - want one, for a number of reasons.

  17. #17
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    I have two, admittedly older, hard tails -- one carbon and one ti. I just can't grok a reason to buy a hard tail if you have the money for a good FS bike -- they go uphill faster, they go down hill faster. The only disadvantages are weight, cost and maintenance/complexity. I figure at $2500, you are looking at about a 20 lb. HT and a 27 lb. FS. I know 7 lb. sounds like a lot, but on a rocky climb, you are lifting the weight of you plus the bike on each rock with the HT, the FS bike is only compressing the suspension. I came to this realization following my dad on his FS Titus on climbs that maxed out my novice ability. He got winded on the climbs, but he never fought to stay upright. I was fighting to stay on the bike and to climb -- way too much effort.

    I will concede that the HT wins on smooth dirt, but throw in a rocky section on climb on a fire road and I would rather be on the FS.

  18. #18
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    What I find puzzling are these studies that show racers are consistently faster on full suspension, yet largely race on hard tails.

  19. #19
    251
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    If you want a hardtail, I'd go with Ti.

    Dave
    '08 Kent Eriksen Ti Hardtail
    '01 Gunnar Crosshairs
    '97 GT Avalanche LE
    '95 Specialized Stumpjumper M2 FS (singlespeed)

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