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Old 07-30-08, 10:11 AM   #1
swbluto
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Are there dual-suspensions out there with regular v-brakes?

I'm just looking for an entry-level full suspension bike that doesn't come with disc-brakes. Diamondback seems to be the cheapest out there but I didn't see a V-brake version.

Anyways, I need to a rear suspension to protect the back wheel unless there are other ways to protect the back wheel without a rear suspension. Upgrading the spokes and rims are all options(If that'd help with spoke breakage and rims bending), but changing the hub is definitely not.
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Old 07-30-08, 10:16 AM   #2
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sure there are
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Old 07-30-08, 10:49 AM   #3
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I'm just looking for an entry-level full suspension bike that doesn't come with disc-brakes. Diamondback seems to be the cheapest out there but I didn't see a V-brake version.

Anyways, I need to a rear suspension to protect the back wheel unless there are other ways to protect the back wheel without a rear suspension. Upgrading the spokes and rims are all options(If that'd help with spoke breakage and rims bending), but changing the hub is definitely not.
I think you should go to the Utility forum or the E-bike forum here. You keep mentioning how a full suspension is the only way to protect your e-assist rear wheel. I think you'll get better feedback (and more understanding if not sympathy) from those two forums because honestly I don't get why that makes sense.

Utility Biking: http://www.bikeforums.net/utility-cycling/
Electric Bikes: http://www.bikeforums.net/electric-bikes/
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Old 07-30-08, 10:53 AM   #4
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I don't see how a crappy rear suspension is going to 'protect' the rear hub. Sounds goofy to me.

Just get fat tires and lower the air pressure. $ saved if that's the objective.
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Old 07-30-08, 10:54 AM   #5
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I don't see how a crappy rear suspension is going to 'protect' the rear hub. Sounds goofy to me.

Just get fat tires and lower the air pressure. $ saved if that's the objective.
It's an electric-assist hub. Maybe it's delicate and needs a rear shock to absorb any jarring.
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Old 07-30-08, 11:05 AM   #6
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My buddy owns an Ellsworth Truth with v-brakes. I'd hardly call it "entry level", though.
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Old 07-30-08, 11:29 AM   #7
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It's an electric-assist hub. Maybe it's delicate and needs a rear shock to absorb any jarring.
Hmmm. A hub that can't withstand the vigors of bicycle riding. Sounds like a worthy investment.
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Old 07-30-08, 02:19 PM   #8
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There are electric-assist wheels that can withstand the rigors of biking but my particular one, based on others' experiences, seems prone to breaking the spokes and bending the rims when hitting potholes and other jarring events on hardtails. In terms of physics, any given bump is going to have the same impulse no matter what type of suspension(or lack thereof) you have on the back, but the "breaker" is the max force experienced during a bump and a suspension drastically reduces that "max force" by spreading the total-force/impulse over a greater period of time. It's like a water balloon: The height of the water is much less after colliding on the ground but it's also spread everywhere instead of being grouped up into a tiny balloon.

Yeah, so I'm just looking for something with a rear suspension JUST to protect the back wheel in the city with curb-hopping and potholes. Every other possible benefit of a rear suspension(like comfort) really means NOTHING to me, so I'll take the crappiest suspension out there as long as it protects the back wheel.

I've seen a few 500-600 dollar models with complete brakes(basic spring suspension but GOOD ENOUGH), but I'm trying to find like a 400-500 dollar model with just v-brakes and they seem to be hard to come by. If I have to, I'd convert the rear-disc brake to a v-brake to accommodate the back electric wheel but the ones I've seen don't come with the proper mounts. No, I'm not looking for 1000 dollar models nor am I looking for creme de crop, just something that'll last a bit longer than a walmart bike.
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Old 07-30-08, 02:26 PM   #9
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I think you should spend some money to relace the wheel and buy a hardtail. The sum of those two items will be cheaper, and a superior option, to buying a crappy full suspension.
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Old 07-30-08, 02:28 PM   #10
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Why do you need this electric-assist wheel?
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Old 07-30-08, 02:34 PM   #11
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Why do you need this electric-assist wheel?
E-assist bikes are becoming an alternative to cars. A bike is nice as a recreational device but if you have to travel far for a commute or to haul a heavy load the average joe is limited or doesn't want to get sweaty on his way to work. E-assist bikes offer assistance in hauling loads, going further at quicker speeds.

I've seen some neat picture of moms hauling two kids and a week's worth of groceries through the hills of San Francisco using e-assisted bikes (Stoke Monkey in the example I've seen).
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Old 07-30-08, 02:51 PM   #12
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Why do you need this electric-assist wheel?
Interacting with civilization without visible sweating. Climbing the 10% 400 ft. hill my house resides on without it being nearly impossible. Going long distances at speeds comparable to my car within the city while retaining the ability to take-on almost every type of environment within the city and thus displacing my use of a car(Or would you rather me drive a car? ). Being as "energy efficient" as possible at minimal cost in my transportation: I don't see why I should spend the $$$ for gas when over 95% of the gas burned is simply used to accelerate the car rather than the main payload(me). Various reasons.

Now if I were to transporting really heavy loads regularly and deliveries were time-sensitive, I'd probably use a gas-vehicle. But for personal transportation, an electric bicycle seems to make the most sense, economically and otherwise.

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Old 07-30-08, 03:43 PM   #13
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A human powered bicycle can do everything you list. That bump in the road you call a hill can be a piece of cake with a little practice. If you insist on cheating yourself with a e-assist hub, then do it on a hardtail. Get someone that knows how to build a wheel you will have no problems. Then you can debunk this wierd myth about breaking wheels. A quality build is all you need.
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Old 07-30-08, 05:45 PM   #14
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A human powered bicycle can do everything you list. That bump in the road you call a hill can be a piece of cake with a little practice. If you insist on cheating yourself with a e-assist hub, then do it on a hardtail. Get someone that knows how to build a wheel you will have no problems. Then you can debunk this wierd myth about breaking wheels. A quality build is all you need.
I don't agree with this sentiment. I have a 25km commute to work that takes about an hour on my Big Dummy. By the time I get to work I am very sweaty but I'm also fortunate that I have showers available to me. If I didn't have the shower available I likely wouldn't do the commute.

An e-assist bike allows people to go further / quicker / haul more without pulling a sweat. Don't think of it like a bike with an electric motor. Think of it as an alternative to a car. There are many that are choosing to get:
- smaller cars
- motorcycles
- vespas

I think of these e-assist bikes in line with what a vespa/scooter is. You think of it like a bike that has a "cheat" attached to it. You wouldn't accuse someone who rides a motorcycle of "cheating" (at least I don't think you would) and that's how I see these e-assist bikes.
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Old 07-30-08, 06:20 PM   #15
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There are electric-assist wheels that can withstand the rigors of biking but my particular one, based on others' experiences, seems prone to breaking the spokes and bending the rims when hitting potholes and other jarring events on hardtails.
I'm having trouble understanding how the type of hub contributes to broken spokes and bent rims.

Regardless, I ask which is more socioenvironmentally conscious? Building a quality wheel or buying a brand new, crappy bike?
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Old 07-30-08, 07:07 PM   #16
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Honestly man, I'd keep the hardtail, and upgrade the rims and spokes.
A full suspension is going to KILLLLLLLLLLLL your efficiancy if all you do is communte.
Stay with the Hardtail.
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Old 07-31-08, 07:05 AM   #17
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Well, as already mentioned, a cheap FS is going to lose you efficiency.
Also for potholes and curb jumping you can easily do it smoothly on a hard tail.

A hub shouldn't really contribute to rim and spoke damage, a poorly built wheel would.
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Old 07-31-08, 07:12 AM   #18
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I don't agree with this sentiment. I have a 25km commute to work that takes about an hour on my Big Dummy. By the time I get to work I am very sweaty but I'm also fortunate that I have showers available to me. If I didn't have the shower available I likely wouldn't do the commute.

An e-assist bike allows people to go further / quicker / haul more without pulling a sweat. Don't think of it like a bike with an electric motor. Think of it as an alternative to a car. There are many that are choosing to get:
- smaller cars
- motorcycles
- vespas

I think of these e-assist bikes in line with what a vespa/scooter is. You think of it like a bike that has a "cheat" attached to it. You wouldn't accuse someone who rides a motorcycle of "cheating" (at least I don't think you would) and that's how I see these e-assist bikes.

Well, I can see where you're coming from. However, this is a mtb forum. What sort of sentiment would you expect? I too have a 16 mile commute. Showers make it nice, but I could survive without. The fact the OP refuses the advice he has been offered may have contributed to my sentiment. I can't see myself ever being on an e-assist bike. It's not even a bike IMO, it's a moped.
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Old 07-31-08, 07:38 AM   #19
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Would rear suss really protect a rear hub? Think about it this way- the entire wheel is still jarred around regardless of suspension. The wheel travels in exactly the same line as would a wheel on a hardtail.

The thing that is cushioned by rear suspension is the frame, and the rider. I could be wrong, but I'm kinda dubious about whether suspension is going to help that much. It's not like rear suss has suddenly let mountain bikers use incredibly thin spokes, or low-spoke wheels.
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Old 07-31-08, 08:00 AM   #20
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Well, I can see where you're coming from. However, this is a mtb forum. What sort of sentiment would you expect? I too have a 16 mile commute. Showers make it nice, but I could survive without. The fact the OP refuses the advice he has been offered may have contributed to my sentiment. I can't see myself ever being on an e-assist bike. It's not even a bike IMO, it's a moped.
I agree with the "This is a mtb forum" statement, which is why I recommended to the OP that he goes to the E-bike or Utility forums. He asked about cheap full suspension mountain bikes and basically was told they don't exist unless he wants to get a piece of crap. (cheap = $500, from what it appears).

I also agree that an e-assist bike is like a moped, that's exactly what I wrote above. Someone buying this type of vehicle is probably also enamored with the gadget factor of it. It isn't due to cost alone because some of these e-assist kits cost as much as mopeds/used motorcycles.

On the bike paths here during my commute I've come across some e-bikes that look exactly like mopeds. They are always ridden by people of retirement age. If you look closely I think you can make out the Ergon grips.


As far as that rear wheel is concerned, I've seen some of these hub electric motors. They can be pretty large so shorter spokes are probably used. To me it just sounds like he needs to bring the wheel to a competent wheel builder as whoever built them originally (factory?) did a crappy job if they're prone to busting spokes.
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Old 07-31-08, 08:03 AM   #21
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Would rear suss really protect a rear hub? Think about it this way- the entire wheel is still jarred around regardless of suspension. The wheel travels in exactly the same line as would a wheel on a hardtail.

The thing that is cushioned by rear suspension is the frame, and the rider. I could be wrong, but I'm kinda dubious about whether suspension is going to help that much. It's not like rear suss has suddenly let mountain bikers use incredibly thin spokes, or low-spoke wheels.
Smack a curb with a 5" dually and then smack the same curb on a hardtail...see which one does more wheel damage.

The suspension causes the weight to be gradually applied instead of WHAM!!!...all at once.
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Old 07-31-08, 01:14 PM   #22
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Don't smack a curb at all with either of them. Pop the front up, then ease the weight off the back, or just pop the back up as well.
simple.


Stay with your hardtail man, get the wheel rebuilt, or buy a better rim/spoke combination.
Just make sure the rim is V compatible.
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Old 07-31-08, 01:30 PM   #23
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Am I the only one that gets a kick out of Cheeto advice?
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Old 07-31-08, 01:41 PM   #24
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Am I the only one that gets a kick out of Cheeto advice?

I got a kick out of it to..
heres another tip, Dont tailwhip your Mountain bike of a curb..
It doesn't fair as well as a BMX does.
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Old 07-31-08, 01:48 PM   #25
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...'66?
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