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  1. #1
    Nitro xcracer13's Avatar
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    USAC Category change.

    2009, USAC will be changing the current category names:

    Beginner, Sport and Expert to
    Cat 3, Cat 2 and Cat 1 (respectively)

    They're also getting rid of the semi-pro class. Also, instead of having the PSE class (pro/semi-pro/elite expert) its cat 1/pro open.

    The owner of USAC is doing this to make it easier and less confusing for people to race road and mountain.
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  2. #2
    Whistler-bound dminor's Avatar
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    Where are you getting this? Please link your source; I find no mention of this anywhere on USAC's site or in any search of the legitimate cycling press.

    BTW, the "owner" of USA Cycling is its membership, since it is a nonprofit member organization.

  3. #3
    Official Website Waterboy born2bahick's Avatar
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    I've always considered myself a Cat,FF rider.

  4. #4
    Nitro xcracer13's Avatar
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    off ridemonkey. here is the article.

    Found this on RideMonkey. No more beginner, sport, expert, semi-pro, pro naming system next year, and no more semi-pro period. Looks like a numerical class system a la the roadies but with 4 instead of 5 cats:



    Do not look at this as "Norba is taking something away from me" but instead as "Norba is increasing the level of competition". This is not something that is being cast upon you by "the roadies" but instead has been over 2 years in thought, analysis, and discussion by many, many people connected with the sport. The new system will bolster the strength of the pro category and make for more competitive, aged-based racing in the amateur ranks. This is a positive for you as a racer and for the development of racing talent in America.

    The semi-pro class will indeed be eliminated. It has not served it's purpose as being a U23 breeding ground and feeder to the pro ranks. What it has become is a dumping ground for guys who too fast for "expert" but never fast enough for "pro's". This is not fair to these racers and complicates in general.

    Along with this, tighter restrictions will be in place and enforced for the pro category. If you want to have the title "pro" you have to make the commitment in more ways that just buying the license. A strong professional category will bring higher profile events to the US (ie. more events with UCI points) and increase the strength of American racers globally.

    Regarding the naming of categories, numbers (or letters) are far simpler than names. This has worked on the road, cross, and collegiate sides of cycling for a while now with very good success. Categories can be added or subtracted as needed as the sport ebbs and flows with membership.

    By reorganizing the categories everyone will indeed be moved into new categories. This is not an "upgrade" or "downgrade" but a restructuring for everyone's benefit. The old "beginner/sport/expert/ semi-pro/pro" model is not conducive these shifts as it boxes everyone into outdated constraints.

    Expect the numbered categories to roughly follow along the lines of the globally used standards. Don't expect to see 5 categories though; especially not in the gravity disciplines. Honestly ask yourselves, do we need this many categories? There is certainly a middle ground between the current system and just a "Pro/Amateur" system.

    Along with all of this will be a focus towards the National Racing Calendar and a new points and rankings system. This whole package of events, scoring, and categories should reinforce itself and help rebuild the foundation of the sport.

    With all of this said, the details of everything are not yet finalized, hence the reason some of the points might seem vague or hazy right now. If anyone wants to personally discuss this I encourage you to PM me and I will pass you my number. I personally have talked to dozens of riders, promoters, team managers, and coaches about this reorganization. Everyone has their nuances or sticky points but there has been an overwhelming consensus that these are needed steps.

    -ska todd
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  5. #5
    Whistler-bound dminor's Avatar
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    Well, Todd's a Trustee, so it's straight stuff. Keep in mind, though, that his post is from way back in June, when Alex (bcd) brought up the question after hearing rumors.

    This sounds like something the trustees and commisioners are still just kicking around at this point and nothing is cast in stone yet - - if it happens, it will probably be after the elections and the new trustees are in place to vote on it.

    No big, one way or the other; and, since semi-pro was kind of a red-headed stepchild anyway, it probably makes sense to deep-six it.

    I'm much more concerned with the shabby way USAC treats the gravity disciplines as a whole than how they decide to divvy us up.
    Last edited by dminor; 08-04-08 at 06:01 PM.

  6. #6
    Nitro xcracer13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dminor View Post
    Well, Todd's a Trustee, so it's straight stuff. Keep in mind, though, that his post is from way back in June, when Alex (bcd) brought up the question after hearing rumors.

    This sounds like something the trustees and commisioners are still just kicking around at this point and nothing is cast in stone yet - - if it happens, it will probably be after the elections and the new trustees are in place to vote on it.

    No big, one way or the other; and, since semi-pro was kind of a red-headed stepchild anyway, it probably makes sense to deep-six it.

    I'm much more concerned with the shabby way USAC treats the gravity disciplines as a whole than how they decide to divvy us up.
    Are local series is all ready moving to the new system. And, this new stuff is supposed to start at the end of the year when everyone is re-newing their license.
    Last edited by dminor; 08-04-08 at 06:02 PM.
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  7. #7
    Generic Title ProFail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcracer13 View Post
    Are local series is all ready moving to the new system. And, this new stuff is supposed to start at the end of the year when everyone is re-newing their license.
    Now cat. up applies to MTB racing too.

    Awesomesauce
    Generic Joke

  8. #8
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    What about the Junior class?
    where does this fall into

    ahh, I just buy 1 day licenses because I dont have the time/money to race the whole series.

  9. #9
    Nitro xcracer13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheeto View Post
    What about the Junior class?
    where does this fall into

    ahh, I just buy 1 day licenses because I dont have the time/money to race the whole series.
    Junior Classes.

    Cat 1 Jr.Ex 18 & under
    Cat 2 18 & under
    Cat 3 18 & under

    I think it goes from like 18-14 or so.
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    Right now its 15-18.
    Well, I wotn be racing the Jr. Expert for a while, I may be able to handl Cat 2... For now I think Im a cat 1.
    Although I'm starting a new training schedule. Usually when we rode the local trails I rode with the group, they rode 1 lap, then stopped, and rested, rode another... Well In a race you dont rest lol.. so Im just going to start keep going around 2 or even 3 times then break lol.

  11. #11
    Nitro xcracer13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheeto View Post
    Right now its 15-18.
    Well, I wotn be racing the Jr. Expert for a while, I may be able to handl Cat 2... For now I think Im a cat 3.
    Although I'm starting a new training schedule. Usually when we rode the local trails I rode with the group, they rode 1 lap, then stopped, and rested, rode another... Well In a race you dont rest lol.. so Im just going to start keep going around 2 or even 3 times then break lol.
    Beginner is cat 3
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcracer13 View Post
    Beginner is cat 3

    Oh I misinterpreted what you had written I think above you had it Jr. Ex cat 1.
    Thought it ment cat 1 was expert for the juniors.
    Id be a cat 2 then.
    I was told im to fast for beginner, so I can't do it lol.

    why do they have to make it all wierd..

  13. #13
    Writin' stuff ZeCanon's Avatar
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    So where to semi-pro's end up? By "bolster the strength of the pro category" do they mean they will bump some of us up? all of us up? some of us down? Where will the cutoff be? I would be less than pleased with a downgrade, and really fail to understand why the entire category has to be eliminated. We will all either go back down and stomp the crap out of the new "cat 1" field, or get stomped in the pro field. Stupid. If the former, it's the current experts getting the raw deal. If the latter than maybe pro fields will finally have some decent depth to them.
    Sounds to me like it will just end up like the current women's situation (which doesn't have a semi-pro category). The ability range in women's expert is HUGE. You have women who are just barely out of sport and women who are about to make the jump to pro all in the same category. Winners with a 2 hr time and last third of the pack all a half our behind are common. The new categories will be the same, especially if they move semi-pros down to cat 1.

    The USAC is just dumb. No ***** the semi-pro field hasn't been a breeding ground for the U23's or pros, all of the juniors who are worth a damn can jump straight into pro! So most of the young talent just skips it completely (and then gets pounded in the pro category).
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  14. #14
    Nitro xcracer13's Avatar
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    I guess the semi-pro would race in the Cat 1/pro open
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  15. #15
    Writin' stuff ZeCanon's Avatar
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    yes, when that is available. For national races the pros and cat 1s will have their own categories. What then?
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  16. #16
    use your best eye kenhill3's Avatar
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    Norba/USAC has sucked the big one for at least the last ten years.
    "I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." - Kurt Vonnegut jr.

  17. #17
    Nitro xcracer13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeCanon View Post
    yes, when that is available. For national races the pros and cat 1s will have their own categories. What then?
    I don't know. Are local racing association used to have the P/S/E group. Now their just calling it cat 1/ pro open. I bet your local association will do something similar...
    www.teamnrc.com
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  18. #18
    Writin' stuff ZeCanon's Avatar
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    Local races are not what I am concerned about though. I want know what actual category my license will say. When I race a NMBS race or nationals or something, who do I race with? Do we get put in with the current experts (sucks for them) or with the current pros (kind of sucks for the back half of the current semi-pro field).
    Not that you can answer that question... but it seems to me that either way, someone gets a little screwed. They have this entire segment of racers (the biggest category at Nationals by the way) who could go either up or down. Will we all have to submit results and try to get into pro or what? I don't want to go back to racing with experts, that would be stupid. The last expert race I did I won by 15 minutes.
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  19. #19
    Whistler-bound dminor's Avatar
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    It seems to me that maybe what is needed is a system of division like the AMA (American Motorcyclist Association) has for competition. They totally divide up amateur and professional racing and have divisions within pro for "semi-pro'-like levels.

    You can choose to race Sportsman class, which is strictly amateur, with Novice, Junior and Expert divisions. Then, if you figure you're good, you purchase your AMA professional license, where you go in as a Novice (a "junior-development" level, as it were) and must post a certain number of top finishes to advance to Junior and then Expert. They wouldn't need that much in mountain biking for the pro ranks, probably; maybe just Junior and Senior (like the UCI) but you get the idea.

    Then you don't have the Expert ranks stuffed full of near-pros and the amateur ranks could stay strictly amateur. To move up toward pro would take a conscious 'money-where-your-mouth-is' license upgrade.

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    https://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=3846

    It is official, the change will be made. I kinda like it, the only issue I will have is with upgrading since there aren't alot of NORBA races in my area, most of them are non-sanctioned, so I am not sure if I can submit those results for that.

  21. #21
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    Poll for a new XC Weight Weenie sub-forum?

  22. #22
    ****** (can I say this?)
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    Quote Originally Posted by dminor View Post
    It seems to me that maybe what is needed is a system of division like the AMA (American Motorcyclist Association) has for competition. They totally divide up amateur and professional racing and have divisions within pro for "semi-pro'-like levels.
    Careful what you wish for, it might end up like the FIA. . .
    “Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... that’s what gets you.”- Jeremy Clarkson

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenfast View Post
    https://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=3846

    It is official, the change will be made. I kinda like it, the only issue I will have is with upgrading since there aren't alot of NORBA races in my area, most of them are non-sanctioned, so I am not sure if I can submit those results for that.
    with road racing, some of the other organizations have reciprocal agreements with usac that let you use those placings toward your upgrade. mabye something like that can/will happen

  24. #24
    Old School Rad mtnbiker66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeCanon View Post
    I don't want to go back to racing with experts, that would be stupid. The last expert race I did I won by 15 minutes.
    You're a real studmuffin.
    Like a circus monkey on a stolen Harley......

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