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Old 08-11-08, 07:04 PM   #1
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Which material in an ultra light 29er HT?

If you really wanted a super light 29er hardtail; would you prefer CF or Ti?
Both these bikes are 23 lbs; both high end parts; both built for fast XC

How would you compare them? Do you think it is worth the price to get 29er HT this light?



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Old 08-11-08, 07:28 PM   #2
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How about a Kryptonium/carbon/Ti weave? That would be sweet.
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Old 08-11-08, 07:41 PM   #3
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My only thought is that if you crash against anything hard such as rocks, CF does not tolerate point loads and will crack while Ti, being a metal, will absorb the load and hopefully spring back.
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Old 08-11-08, 07:52 PM   #4
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My only thought is that if you crash against anything hard such as rocks, CF does not tolerate point loads and will crack while Ti, being a metal, will absorb the load and hopefully spring back.
Well...I can tell you from personal experience that the aluminum version of that Motobecane doesn't hold up to a head-on collision with a 1980's rigid steel Raleigh, hehe.

Paper thin, dude...paper thin.

In contrast, I ride with a guy who has an ExCal and has broken 3 frames. Granted, Fisher replaces them...it's just a pain. I broke my Fisher HKEK too. They have a crappy seat tube / head tube jctn. I dunno 'bout the CF though...my experience is with Alu.
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Old 08-11-08, 08:14 PM   #5
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Either way. But to note: I'd rather have a strong frame than an ultralight, non durable one. Seriously.
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Old 08-11-08, 09:52 PM   #6
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Those GF superfly frames suck hairy monkey nuts. If you look at one in person you can see tons of imperfections in the frame. In stead of using a mold to make one frame they make the rear triangle, top tube, head tube, BB junction, seat tube and down tube all separately. Then they join them together kind of like if you lock your fingers together. then, they get carbon sheets and layer them over the junctions. That's why they are able to make XS frames to XXL frames and make profit.
Every guy that I know that got one had the frame crack with in a month.
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Old 08-11-08, 10:31 PM   #7
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Every guy that I know that got one had the frame crack with in a month.
Not that I doubt this at all given my own GF encounters, but how many is this?
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Old 08-11-08, 10:48 PM   #8
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Not that I doubt this at all given my own GF encounters, but how many is this?
8 or 9
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Old 08-12-08, 05:36 AM   #9
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8 or 9
Wow...you'd think they'd do a recall or something. Talk about losing money in warranty work.

Have the warranty'd frames held up?
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Old 08-12-08, 06:02 AM   #10
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IIRC most bike manufacturers don't make one piece carbon frames. Although that does seem like an oddly high number of separate pieces for the Superfly.
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Old 08-12-08, 06:40 AM   #11
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Those GF superfly frames suck hairy monkey nuts. If you look at one in person you can see tons of imperfections in the frame. In stead of using a mold to make one frame they make the rear triangle, top tube, head tube, BB junction, seat tube and down tube all separately. Then they join them together kind of like if you lock your fingers together. then, they get carbon sheets and layer them over the junctions. That's why they are able to make XS frames to XXL frames and make profit.
Every guy that I know that got one had the frame crack with in a month.
They don't have imperfections, they're trying to save weight by not putting a cosmetic layer of carbon on the top. If you were to look at any carbon frame without the top layer that's what they would look like. And I haven't heard of any breaking, and our store has sold at least a dozen.

EDIT: and he makes it sound way more complicated than it is, it's really just a lugged carbon frame.
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Old 08-12-08, 06:49 AM   #12
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^ I haven't heard of any superfly frame failures either and I know 4 people who have them.

are they all breaking in the same place?
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Old 08-12-08, 09:38 AM   #13
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I woulod go Ti all the way simply for the longevity of the frame. Carbon fiber will eventually break.....that is a guarantee
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Old 08-12-08, 09:47 AM   #14
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Offer both. And yes it's worth a good price for a light 29er.
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Old 08-12-08, 10:07 AM   #15
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I've heard of HiFi failures, but nothing about the Superfys breaking. The HiFis were aluminum. It's not the material so much as what you do with it.
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Old 08-12-08, 10:49 AM   #16
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Actually, most of the failures I heard of were the CF seatstays breaking.
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Old 08-12-08, 11:12 AM   #17
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go with Ti - any frame can break if you abuse it. these lightweight frames will break sooner than a slighly heavier sturdier frame.
If it was my choice I'd get a STEEL 29er from niner or waltworks
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Old 08-12-08, 12:22 PM   #18
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They don't have imperfections, they're trying to save weight by not putting a cosmetic layer of carbon on the top. If you were to look at any carbon frame without the top layer that's what they would look like. And I haven't heard of any breaking, and our store has sold at least a dozen.

EDIT: and he makes it sound way more complicated than it is, it's really just a lugged carbon frame.
Its not at the same quality level as the Orbea frames. They use on sold mold which is the reason why you can only get an 18 size frame bc the molds are so expensive. If you haven't heard of any breaking the people aren't riding hard at all. Theres a recall on the frames.
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Old 08-12-08, 12:25 PM   #19
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Id prefer the titanium I think. Carbon however is so much more fashionable.

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I woulod go Ti all the way simply for the longevity of the frame. Carbon fiber will eventually break.....that is a guarantee
Can't speak for bike frames as I suspect it depends greatly on the frame design and how the rider uses it, but carbon construction in general has shown itself to have an outstanding fatigue resistance. The material's non-homogeneous nature stops the progression of microcracks which lead to fatigue failure. Granted anything can break, but if you keep the loads under the stress limit then carbon will last indefinately (perhaps until the UV breaks down the external epoxy butter coat...)

Now Aluminum on the other hand... that's doomed to failure no matter how minimal the load.
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Old 08-12-08, 01:35 PM   #20
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Its not at the same quality level as the Orbea frames. They use on sold mold which is the reason why you can only get an 18 size frame bc the molds are so expensive. If you haven't heard of any breaking the people aren't riding hard at all. Theres a recall on the frames.
Yes, the molds are expensive. I don't know where you're pulling this recall from- I work at a Trek/Fisher dealer (as I've said) and no one at the shop has heard a thing about it. And last, they don't make an 18", but they do happen to have a 15.5", a 17.5", a 19", and a 21".
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Old 08-12-08, 01:53 PM   #21
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Yes, the molds are expensive. I don't know where you're pulling this recall from- I work at a Trek/Fisher dealer (as I've said) and no one at the shop has heard a thing about it. And last, they don't make an 18", but they do happen to have a 15.5", a 17.5", a 19", and a 21".
Go to MTBR and look in the 29er forum. I talked to Fisher himself about the frames and he even admitted to having a few bad batches of first production frames have issues with cracking.
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Old 08-12-08, 02:02 PM   #22
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Okay. And after those first few bad ones?
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Old 08-12-08, 02:06 PM   #23
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Okay. And after those first few bad ones?
Still hearin about cracked frames from time to time. It's a pretty weak way to make a frame though.
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Old 08-12-08, 03:10 PM   #24
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It's a pretty weak way to make a frame though.
You have no clue do you?
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Old 08-13-08, 06:41 AM   #25
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I would be interested in either one. The ti definetly would win for longevity. A few guys I ride with that have CF mountain bikes are always worried about going down on rocks or bashing the BB, so the the ti would "seem" sturdier to most people. I am currently riding a steel 29" Kona (Explosif, with X9, Bontrager Race wheels, Juicy 7s, and a Reba Race set at 80mm). I prefer its geometry to the Fisher Paragon (Genesis 1) that it replaced. I keep hearing that G2 is alot better. I've done some XC racing on the Kona this year and fared pretty well in the races. If you need a tester, I ride a Large (19") frame.
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