mzeffex 

Thank you.

Duce97

Dont forget some of them sponser teams, local bike clubs, events in the community ...that money just doesnt fall out of the sky. My LBS even gives free begineer mountain bike classes. Supporting your local shop does alot more than people think, its not just about greedy shop owners , cause to tell ya the truth i dont know not one rich shop owner.

You support that shop by buying everything there you need , lube, tubes, tires, tools, clothing and so on they will take care of you when it comes to the bike.

junkyard

Only jerks go into a shop expecting a deal. When they get one, it makes them feel better about the fact that they are a talentless hack when it comes to cycling.

dminor 

You are so obtuse sometimes, junkard. It would really be helpful if you were to clearly speak your mind.

McGuillicuddy

My rule of thumb is that unless the online deal less than half the price at the LBS, then I go to the LBS. By the time you factor in shipping, currency exchange (for us Canucks), the hassle of waiting for the item to arrive, and the possible headache of returning an item through the mail, the online deal has to be really great before it's worth the trouble.

JonnyV

I work for a fitness supplier that just brought in Fuji's. We have to make a new name for ourselves in a different industry and in a town with 2 successful bike shops that both have a strong following. To do so we're selling bikes for up to 25% off MSRP. And offering unlimited tuneups for life. I don't know about the margins of other manufacturers but Fuji makes it easy to so. From what I understand some others have margins of only 50 points, which would make it tough to make a good deal.

jasony0423

I bet when you go buy a new car, you refuse to accept the free oil change they give you with a purchase, and insist on paying for that first tank of gas, right? I know I do. When I bought my first house, I didn't make an offer, I accepted the inflated price, because dangit, these people were selling their house, and they needed to be able to furnish their new one. I see nothing wrong with asking for a deal on a bike, or anything that you're paying over $1,000 for.
When I bought my car, I asked for, and received a discount of over $4,000. It took an hour of negotiating. When I bought my first house, I asked for, and received nearly $20,000 off... It took an offer, and a counter offer. When I bought both my MTB's, I asked for discounts, and I'll do the same when I buy my road bike.

surreal

The simple fact is, i'm not against the bike shop profiting off of me. Or, off of other folks, for that matter. (Better them than me, right?) But the typical LBS, when it comes to selling me stuff, they're shooting for high-retail, and that's excessive. I used to work at a shop. It was almost criminal how much stuff got marked up, especially the cheapest, most horrible items.

I know what QBP charges bike shops for things. And, i know that there are times when jenson or pricepoint are offering components to the public for less than QBP is offering the same components to dealers. I know that must be hard. However, that falls under the "not my problem" dept.

As for shipping and waiting for online parts, i understand the frustration of waiting for components in the post. But, I've also had several experiences of waiting much longer for items ordered thru an lbs, for reasons related to poor service from their distributors and cheezy business practices on the part of the shop owner (eg, not ordering anything til he has enough stuff for a nice-sized order.) Worst thing is, many bike shops don't actually have an inventory of stuff I'm after.

When I go into a LBS, i tend to see a bitter crazy person with a crew of employees who tend to range from bright-eyed cyclozealot to burnt-out cynical guy who has been taken advantage of (where they fit on the scale is often proportional to how long they've been there.) They have no useful inventory to a guy like me. They have no useful inventory to most cyclists who've been riding awhile, and know what they want. Instead, they have a pile of overpriced, run-of-the-mill crap that they try to push on you because they don't want to order anything, even though they don't have anything. If/when they do order something, they want to play the role of yet another useless middleman. I'm of the opinion that the biggest obstacle to cycling blowing up bigger is that, in order to get decent new bikes/components, you need to deal with too many evil middlemen.

If I want to buy, say, a cassette that has a $100 msrp, I know that I can get an 08 version for $65, maybe a total of $75 shipped if i only get the cassette, from pricepoint. Now, if i go into the LBS and kick the following logic (and i have):
Me-Hi. I want the Superdeluxe badbutt cassette.
MidMan- That'll be $100 dollars.
Me- Oh. You got one here? 11-34?
MidMan-No. I'll have to order it. It'll be here before long. Or, i can sell you a hyperglide 8speed for $39.99.
Me-Um, I can get a new '08 superdeluxe badbutt for $65 online. $75, shipped and insured.
Midman- No way!
Me- Yeah. Why don't you just sell me one for $75. You make money, i don't get ripped off, and everyone's happy.
Midman-I can't get the 08s anymore.
Me-That's weird. You own a bikeshop, but can't get 08 cassettes. I own a laptop, and i can get 08 cassettes.
Midman-No, way. I have to pay $51.50 plus shipping to get that cassette from QBP.
Me-Yes, so you'd still make money. 1 and a half points. 50% profit. All you have to do is take my money and place an order.
Midman-But, I cannot do that, because I am a worthless middleman. I sell the things for $100. $107 after tax. $10 for "installation"

So, I leave. I get the cassette i want for $75 anyway. I wait less time than i would've via the LBS. Pricepoint makes all the money. Middleman gets none from me, so he can cry poor to his tragically loyal customers, and they can buy some more tubes and lube at inflated prices while shaking their heads. Middleman sadly wonders why business is slow. Pricepoint and its ilk wonder why LBS owners are so stupid.

Really, the whole thing is so outrageously pathetic, but these guys really think that I want to pay them $50 for placing an order, which is something I know how to do anyway. Oh, and installation? If you cannot install a cassette, you should learn how. You can buy the tool for less than the shop will charge you when they use the tool one time.

As for complete bikes, we have another case of scheming middlemen (the "design firms" that try to pass for bike companies) fleecing us by selling us the frames (which they order from the real factory in Taiwan or China) we want, shackled to jenk wheelsets and shimano m443 cranksets and headsets that are broken out the box. Nice. No thanks.

I'm trying to think of a compelling reason to support a shop. I might order a Gunnar from Trophy (not entirely local; next state over, but I can ride to it), but I'm not getting anything to hang on it unless he'll match online prices. The last time i went to a bike shop, i spent $28 for a $10 chain. Another time, I flatted on my fix without a patch or tube right near a "lbs". They charged me $15 to change the flat, and the 14 year old on the stand tightened my bearings up while reinstalling the wheel, so i ended up walking it home anyway. And, i had to order new bearings.

Maybe I'd support the LBS if it was run by a businessman who loved bikes and could do enough math to compete in today's market, and if he staffed the place with competent wrenches, but that type of shop is rare in these parts. Sorry for the size xxl rant, but really, the bike shops will never survive if they don't wake up, and they'll never wake up until cyclists force them to compete effectively. If you truly love your LBS, demand fair prices and quality service. Don't pay inflated prices over guilt-trips given out here.

-rob

7daysaweek

Refusing a free oil change would be the equivalent of refusing a free check up that comes with most bike purchases. I have no problem with that. As far as putting gas in it... if it comes with gas it comes with gas. It's kind of like a bike shop putting air in the tires... thats getting it ready to leave the lot. I have no problem with that.

A bike shop has employees to pay. They sell the bikes, work the floor, some don't make commission like those on a car lot. Bike shop employees build the bikes when they come in, unlike on a car lot. House prices are subjective. The neighborhood, school districts, type of house, size of house, floor plans, energy efficiency all come into play. Market circumstances can also make house values swing wildly from on month/year to another. It's just not a comparable market whatsoever.

Having worked for both an auto manufacturer and a bicycle shop I can also tell you that there's a lot more markup on a car than on a bicycle.

Either way, I have no problem with people wanting a deal from the bike shop. Everyone WANTS a deal. What I have a problem with is people feeling entitled to a deal. Some people seem to believe that the shop OWES them a deal and that if they don't give them a deal then they are somehow mistreating them.

7daysaweek

When that shop owner is not ordering until he has a good sized order he's doing so so that he doesn't have to charge you for shipping (most likely). If you'd like to pay for the shipping on the order I'm sure he'd probably put it in for you faster. Also you can't expect the bike shop to just happen to stock everything you need. Shops in my area are struggling and they seem to have cut back their inventory because business is slower... that makes sense. When you order online to avoid this, you perpetuate the problem. Which is fine if that's what you want to do but that's the way it works.

Most shops I've had experience with can have something for you within a week if you need it and are willing to pay shipping and most times that's not even an issue.

Face-Plant

We all have a choice of how to spend our money. The person on a tight budget will most likely go via the internet or other mail order catalog options, if they know how to work on there own bikes. The person with funds falling out the A** will be more willing to pay the LBS the extra funds to have the convenience of someone they can go to when they have a problem with there bike, needing parts, mechanic, etc. I payed my LBS an extra $3.00 for a some grips that I could have gotten off the internet for $3.00 dollars less, but I said hey he could use the $3.00 to help pay for overhead, and I have my grips that day, plus I installed them on my bike ready to ride that night with the LBS Wednesday night ride.

Some time it's better to go via internet, and sometimes it just as easy to go via the LBS.

It's all about a choice, we all do what feels right to us. [ insert bleeding heart here ]

sirtigersalot

original question: how to get a good deal from ur lbs
answer: Be nice, be chill, be patient, then ask in a chill niceguy way.


also cars =/= bikes

junkyard

I suggest that surreal finds a new hobby. He seems pretty down on the whole scene.

surreal

I'm down on the scene being dominated by ppl with lots of cash, b/c it prevents ppl of modest means from cycling. I blame much of the expense on greedy, useless middlemen.

I enjoy cycling, and i enjoy working on bikes. I hate giving a bitter little weirdo 50points on a sale because he clicked a mouse, instead of me. I hate paying anywhere from 20% to 50% too much for an item at a bike shop. If junkyard thinks the "whole scene" is about giving money away to shopkeepers for no good reason, well, maybe junkyard and i have different hobbies, anyway.

Can i afford to spend an extra $3 on grips, to support a shop? Sure. And, i could probably afford to pay an extra $25 on a cassette, too, but why should i? And why would i buy the grips at the shop for the extra $3 when i can just piggyback them onto my order?

As for 7day's comment about the shopkeeper deliberately sitting on my order to wait for more orders, supposedly to save me on "shipping", i'd think that when he's making $49 off of a component that lists for $51 wholesale/$100msrp, the "shipping" is included in the $49 markeup. If you think that all of these $25/$50 sums are petty, please consider that cyclists tend to buy many components over the course of their lifetime. That's $25 to $50 on each typical item.

But, whatever. If you want a deal from your LBS, i guess you can beg for one. I'd rather find folks who are willing to *offer* deals from the door.

-rob

junkyard

Seems like your real hobby is writing long winded posts b!tching about insignificant things. Can we find you on the knitting forums posting about overpriced thread too?

sirtigersalot

surreal:

qbp as a minimum order that you have to place they will not exept orders under like 200 wholesale or somthin, so he can't push your order thru unless unless he buys 150 in BS, and once again you go to ur lbs so that you can get advice on parts, if you go into ur lbs and ask a bunch or questions then go and buy parts online you are a jerk. If you know exactly what you want you should buy it online, unless you want the ability to return the product, or are worried about online stores or just don't care about money, basically the markup off special qbp orders is pretty standard, thats just how things are done, and unless you talked to the shop manager the shoprat you talked to didn't have the power to lower the price.

Also from ur comments about greedy middle men, i think you prolly on ur lbs **** list, or at least not on the chill people list. The deals are for the cool people.

surreal

sirtigers--i don't spend much time in any lbs, so i'm probably on neither list. If i'm on a shhhlist, it's only at the one where i used to work, b/c i don't work there anymore. (I haven't visited lately.) i wouldn't go to the lbs for advice, because my experience with sales drones is that they don't know a whole lot about bikes, and what they do "know" is driven more by a need to move old stock than it is on facts. i find that forums like this, friends/acquaintances on the road/trail, and trial & error are the best ways to learn about bike components and set-up.

I'm aware of QBP's minimum order. (I used to work at a shop, which solidified my negative opinion of shops.) This, again, falls under "not my problem". If the lbs doesn't have any other customers or any need to update/replenish its inventory, that's their problem.

For the record, you can make returns with online shops. it's just more shipping/more hassle. That's why everyone needs to make informed decisions. Many (but not all) LBS have some uncool return policies, for their part.

Junkyard-As for long-winded posts, well, yeah. I make those, too. I'm a reallllly busy guy, let me tell ya. =P still, i prefer that hobby to making cute/snarky little posts that are brief, but rarely informative. And, of course, the hobby of paying some LBS's rent out of some sort of sentimental guilt is another one I've kind of outgrown. Regardless, yeah, I ride. I work 40 hours/week. Go to grad school half-time. I author long posts. I fiddle with cable tension more than i ought to. I make soap in my kitchen. I lead a life of bizarre and quiet desperation. That might suck for me, but this thread isn't actually about me. It's about deals and bike shops and how to get 'em. The fact remains:

--if you want a deal, don't bother with the LBS. Go to the LBS if you need the extra support, or if you live in a patinated world where online retailers are to be avoided.

hth,
-rob

dminor 

If I wanted to read 4-paragraph rantings, this would probably be a very entertaining thread. There are those times when I long for one of Pete's pithy replies.

sirtigersalot

pretty much exactly what i'm saying,

mbiker33

Uhhh, we don't all need to fight over this thread, he asked a simple question, so a simple answer works. As for junkyard, I have learned is he's a tough guy behind his computer screen so what he says u dont take personally. It might just be me but the fighting seems pointless, everyone has their own opinion. Simple, so we should leave it at that

junkyard

Not about you. Right. You still haven't told me what online source is best for blue yarn.

santiago

I'm with surreal on this one. I don't see the point of having a middle-man for high-volume, consumable, staple items like cassettes and chains. All they are looking out for are their best interests and the interests of the manufacturers. The LBS' and the end-consumer's interests are last, in my opinion. I would even argue that the interests of the LBS come last as there is obviously someone that's providing all those great deals on Jenson and Pricepoint completely bypassing the LBS.

I'm all for supporting the LBS but I typically do it with other people's money by bringing people in who are interested in buying new bikes. I treat the LBS like a convenience store but even then they prove to be not so convenient because anything I need is typically not there, costs more and takes longer to get.

I went to a pretty big LBS last summer to order a Surly seatpost collar. I know they're probably the biggest Surly dealer here (in a city of 3 million) and figured the price difference was minute enough for me to go with them. I walked in and they didn't have it. "No problem, we'll put in the order and get it in 3 days". I call back a week later and find out they hadn't hit their minimum order quantity so I won't see it for another week or so. 2.5 weeks for a seatpost collar? I should have bought it online.

surreal

I'm sorry, dude let me switch gears on ya: The LBS is a talentless hack.

-rob

Myfirsttrek

What was this thread about again?? Oh yah, if you want a DEAL win some races and get a pro deal, they are quite easy to get. I work at an LBS and i would not give a good deal to someone unless they came in a lot and i liked them. The customers i really like and race with i get pro deals for. The internet is not as good as people think.... You could also work at a bike shop.

Surreal, why don't you like supporting local business? Bikes shops are great for human interaction.. just so you know, not a bad idea.

junkyard

No, no. That is santiago. Don't get him confused with an LBS. He was actually agreeing with you. Piss him off and you lose an ally.