botak

HI, i am considering to get either a specialized Stumpjumper or Enduro, or a trek Remedy.
but i have a few questions that i hope someone can help.
1. I tried the enduro in the LBS and noticed that it sagged about 20% the moment on it. I have not tried any other All mountain bikes before and was wondering if this is a normal for an AM bike. I was seriously considering the enduro as i was looking for a bike that i can climb while being able to take a bit of punishment. If the sag is that much, i think it'll be quite impractical for climbing

2. another thing that i would like to know is what is the M5 alloy that specialized use for their bikes? is it some kind of steel or aluminium or some other metals?
thanks

JonathanGennick 

20% sag seems about right, actually. However, did the shop set the air pressure for your weight? If all you did was sit on an Enduro that wasn't set up properly for you, then it could easily be too plush or too stiff. That was actually something I did not pay proper attention to when I bought my Enduro SL a few years ago. It felt really plush in the shop. It was much less plush when I got home and properly set the air pressure to generate the correct sag percentage. I should have set the air pressure in the shop so that it was correct for my test ride.

As for alloy, the term M5 is just a marketing term used for whatever alloy Specialized uses in its high-end bikes. There are other metals thrown into the mix. I believe Specialized likes to be secretive about them. I frankly doubt though, that they have anything really unique. M5 probably ends up being some standard, industry alloy with a four-digit number assigned to it. It's like what Trek does with their black/white/alpha aluminum. The terms the bike companies use are marketing gibberish. The trademarked name M5 lets Specialized have a "different" aluminum than any other bike company. The name is a marketing trick.

Whatever it is though, M5 does allow for lighter weight frames than M4. And M4 allows for lighter weight frames than A1.

electrik

^- Yup... m5 is just a specific aluminum alloy...

botak

thanks for the clarification

@Jonathan i ams still deciding if I sholud get the stumpjumper or the enduro fro
your explanation it sounds like the enduro will not be so practical for long climbs. but on the other hand I'd like to have a bike that can at least take some minor jumps .... tough choice

clydeosaur

I've got the Stumpjumper FSA with "M4" technology. It's kind of like putting a 5.3 liter enblem on the side of the car. Bears no real signifigance. Fun bike though.

JonathanGennick 

I struggled w/the same decision a few years back. It was the first year of the Enduro SL. Test rode both bikes for over an hour in front of the shop. Finally fell for the hype and bought the Enduro. For me it was the wrong decision. Nice bike, but it didn't really suit my riding style. I don't "live up" to the Enduro, and it's a cumbersome bike to haul around if you're not really riding it like it was meant to be ridden.

If there's a moral to my story, it's to be honest with yourself about how you really ride. Then buy accordingly.

BTW, the Stumpy will definitely soak up some bumps.

Fred Smedley

Your right, the difference comes when it says 5.7 inside.

botak

i can really relate to that. logically i think the stumpjumper fits my needs better, but there's always this nagging thought about the enduro.

in any case, thanks for the reminder to be honest

botak

update:
i did a quick search in specialized website and found something about M4. Basically M4 is aluminium that is alloyed with silicon, copper magnesium and vanadium.
there fore M5 would probably be an improvement of the alloy.

Zephyr11

The Stumpjumper is not a delicate flower. It can take some small jumps. My 4" weight weenie bike can take a foot to flat no problem, and I am far from the smoothest lander. And if I were confident enough that I wasn't going to break myself, I'm sure it could take more than that. Stumpjumper will be able to take more than my weenie bike.

There will *always* be that nagging thought about the other bike. Life is full of "what if's," and bike buying is no exception. The key is to buy a bike that will make you forget about the nagging thoughts every time you saddle up. You can buy another bike at some point down the line...for now, buy the one that's best suited to the riding you're doing now and the riding you honestly plan to do in the future.

dminor 

Without trying to sound like a Specialized apologist, M5 alloy is more than a marketing name. It is a known 4-digit aluminum alloy, yes - - but it has been further alloyed with other specific metals to give it the properties Specialized was looking for.

It began with M2 but they found that they pretty much could only make basic round-tube frame shapes with it. So they went looking for a more malleable mix, hence M4. M4 was something they could butt, squeeze, draw and otherwise manipulate more and still retain or increase strength in key areas.

Starting with their road bike line, they wanted more. To quote them: "M4 worked (and continues to work) very well. But, to make the frames even lighter, we needed a material with higher tensile strength and one that would retain more of its integrity after welding. Working with Columbus, E5 was developed. E5 made its first appearance under Moreau and Casero last year in the form of the S-Works SL."

From E5 was born M5. To quote from another source: "Specialized engineers [had] a clear objective - design the lightest mountain frame possible. What they learned with E5 lead them to the M5 alloy which shares the outstanding strength (and hardness) and elongation characteristics of its cousin. Specifically:

• M5 has exceptionally high tensile strength so less material can be used without sacrificing strength requirements.
• M5 retains substantially more of its strength (hardness) after welding than other alloys, again enabling less material use while maintaining high strength.
• M5 has fantastic elongation, which means it can be radically manipulated, allowing a truly optimized tubeset."

Other info I turned up shows that the alloying agents in M4 are: silicium, copper, magnesium, vanadium (making it a modified 600 series); and for M5 are silicium, copper, manganese, magnesium, zinc (a cross between 6000 and 7000 series).