samburger

That's how this new dog we just got is. Loves people he knows but is absolutely terrified of other people & dogs. I haven't been home enough lately & he's still scared of me. Those qualities in a dog, plus the fact that on a busy spring day I'll see 4 or 5 people at the trail--none in the winter--makes for what I think will be a good trail dog. If I get caught by a strict park employee, so be it. It's worth it to make my day, as well as my dog's day, a little better.

My other dog, however, is way too friendly. Loves everything, explores everything, & isn't well trained at all. He will never see the trails so long as I'm on my bike.

Zephyr11

Also a note on the post before about not knowing whether a dog is friendly or not. This is true. My sense of awareness goes way up when I approach a dog on a trail, because I don't know the dog and whether it's well trained or not. But here's something else to think about. I'm a 25 year old girl who not only bikes but runs solo. My sense of awareness goes up EVERY TIME I pass a guy who looks like he can overpower me in an isolated area. Running 100% of the time in areas with people is impossible, and finding someone to run with is even more impossible than that. And not only is banning sketchy looking men from public areas impractical, but the vast majority of sketchy looking guys aren't actually *******.

So yeah...not entirely sure how well the argument that "I don't know how friendly the dog is" works.

Flying Merkel

I love walking my 3 greyhounds. They are officially the gentlest breed of dog. Love riding mountain bikes. Around here (Orange county CA) the two activities don't mix.

electrik

There are no guarantees, being unarmed and run down by a stranger's 100lb dog in the middle of nowhere is downright terrifying. I would put it slightly below being run down by a cougar or charged by a bear... I am in favour of letting owner's who let their dogs do that to people having to experience the same and learning the hard way.

Maybe the dog has friendly intentions or not, you never really know until it's too late. Many owners will tell you it's ok or can often be heard screaming "noooo!" as if the dog 100yards into an attack cares what other thinks! Usually, "don't worry it's friendly" and the damn dog bites/nips you anyways or "don't worry" when the thing is chewing your foot and jumping allover you.

Yes it has all happened and no i don't think one can mtb in control and control their dog at the same time, even if it is lassie(the dog isn't lassie as much as the owner loves it).

Johnny Law

how did i get brought into this sillyness?

contango 

I guess in the sense that if your creepy looking man walked past without incident you'd ignore him but if he started touching you then you'd knee him somewhere delicate. In the same way if a dog walks past without incident I ignore it but if it looks like it's about to attack me I'll ram my walking pole down its throat if I have to. If I'm on the bike I can use the bike to fend it off and if needs be plant a hefty kick into its ribs.

I'd rather not have to do that to a dog, just as I'm sure you'd rather not have to knee a stranger, but if I come under attack I'll protect myself using whatever force I consider appropriate at the time.

cryptid01

I trust my dog's judgment infinitely more than that of a weird scared dog hater.

samburger

I guess when it comes down to it there are just too many people trying to prevent incidents & not enough people trying to figure out how to deal with them. Sh*t's gonna happen no matter how many laws you make & how well you attempt to enforce them. Instead of requiring all dogs to wear leashes, why not provide some sort of proving grounds for how safe your dog truly is, & give them a license if they're trail-safe? We do it with drivers licenses, & **** happens, & people either lose them or don't. Are dogs really any less trustworthy than 16-year-olds driving 3,000# death machines?

electrik

I always knew the support you were getting was odd!

Maybe if you weren't such a misanthrope things wouldn't seem so bad.

electrik

Of course, there was a time before when leashes weren't required... however those times are gone in most places because of various attacks and incidents. A graduated leashing law is too expensive and letting them run loose is too expensive, so we're here today and requiring every dog to be leashed. It isn't great, but it really cuts down on the trouble any dog can potentially cause.

samburger

^True. My idea would only work in a world of infinite money & resources. I can't stress enough that I completely agree that leash laws are the best available solution to dog attacks. But I will always hold my ground that there are dogs who are capable of being controlled without leashes.

sscyco

Sounds like a Star Trek world......

aballas

I'm late to this one.... seems like there's a lot of kill-joys in here though....

I've been biking/hiking the trails in WV with my yellow lab mix Tsali since she was a puppy. She's never on a leash unless we're in a busy area....(hiking or biking). She never gets more than 100yds from me. That is, unless i'm way ahead of her on the bike..in which case she'll happily plod along down the trail following my scent until she finds me again. She never poops on the trail, and she even leaves the wild critters and other hikers alone unless I tell her it's okay (she does enjoy chasing the occasional deer with my permission).

It's all about training.... how do you think hunters keep their dogs from running off and scaring away all the animals... Learn how to train your pup then take her biking... 'nuff said...

They love it...

aballas

+1

electrik

Sorry, but the joy killer is being molested and having to pensively stop for some random person's dog. Oh what a cute doggy, bark bark jump, smile and wave. However because you're a bit clueless and taking it literally, i will let you in on a secret. Everybody thinks such owners are a bit, er, selfish. So much is said when you're out of earshot.

I know many don't care because their attitude is **** 'EM if they don't like my dog fido, this is nature, i'll run that dog where i goddamn want to! Anti-social.

samburger

It's funny how you refer to 'most people' when the majority of the people here disagree with you & enjoy/don't mind dogs on the trail. Perhaps your definition of 'most people' is a bit, er, selfish.

sscyco

Maybe if you told them within earshot they would realize they are being ****** bags. Some people won't realize they are wrong if others act like they are right.

electrik

Tried it, don't work if they're already doing it... no matter how nice you are or factual, people just get angry or fail to see how they're affecting others(they're very convinced it's OK even if you're the 5th person to bug them about it)! You can see how it works from the conversations here and most guys i ride with don't want more confrontation of an argument, they're just out trying to have fun. But they're all thinking the basically same thing if you prod them. Personally, I have owned a few dogs(I know exactly the selfish temptation and rationalizing going on here) and I don't want the aggravation of having to argue the law with every dog owner whose unleashed dog harasses(or worse) my dog or my buddies while riding and have basically thrown in the towel in real life.

I don't see the majority of people disagreeing with me, just a few owners who insist they're doing it right when others give them a different opinion. Besides the laws represent the majority around here... most trail-heads have it written to keep your animal leashed. I'm not some weirdo, really, if you want to demonize me that's just plain dishonest.

aballas

I just told you my dog goes out of her way to not harass anyone else on the trails (she won't even chase a deer unless I tell her to!). The simple fact is if the dog is trained properly and is smart enough to pass some obedience courses then it isn't an issue. If she's in a situation where she needs to be on a leash (say around another dog who isn't as nice, or an ass like you...) she is on a leash....

Don't get me wrong....my dog and I have both been harassed by less well-trained dogs and I made sure to tell the owner what I thought to his/her face. I know where you're coming from, but I sure as hell don't go posting about my negative experiences with the dog on a goddamn internet forum, and using that as a generalization for all dogs and owners...

electrik

Call me an ass, i'm not surprised... your reaction is typical for a dog owner who wants their way.

Sorry, but such "good as gold" dogs like yours are not common around here. If they were maybe the laws would be different.

I'm posting about my experiences here because somebody asked, not deliberately going out of my way to ruin your little party.

Alan@TreeFort

Thanks all for the info. What came up is basically was what I was expecting to hear, but it is good to now other people's thoughts on the issue.

As an FYI from a dog owner, my aussie/golden is 1 year and not at all ready to be taken off a leash, let alone off leash in the woods on an MTB trail. You are hearing it from a dog owner - I will not be taking her on the trail, at least not anytime soon. First walking on the lash well. Then running. Then sticking by me at the dog park. Then possibly running off leash. Then trail running. Then... well we'll see. But like many of us here - we are responsible enough to know when having a dog on the trail is allowable and when it is not. Any dog that has inconvenienced any of you, will not be a dog of mine.

samburger

My experiences have been good in all cases except dogs on leashes. In my few months on the trails, I've encountered probably a little over a dozen dogs, & the only ones I've had to go out of my way for have been on leashes. Even spent a nice 10 minutes getting a leash out of my chain this past 4th of July. I'm not saying all the leashless dogs have been well trained--most of them were criss-crossing the trails & stopped to look at me like a deer in the highway--but when I got closer their survival instincts kicked in & they got out of the way. When on leashes, the dogs may get out of the way, but the owners & dogs don't always agree on the best side to move over to. Hence the leash in the chain. As I learn more about my new dog, I'm realizing he's an explorer & won't be a good trail dog. Tough luck for me. But I still feel more comfortable seeing dogs off leashes than on them when I'm on the trail.

electrik

Yeah, I have trouble with some leashed dogs also. I'm sure if the owner lost their grip on the leash or it broke i'd need stitches. I rarely have issues with walkers whose dog is well trained are able to quickly grab the dog's collar when I announce myself. Unfortunately, this is something not possible when you're biking, mostly because the dog is outside your actual physical control and secondly the dog is in herd/hunt mode excited by your motion instead of calm walking mode where it is easily controlled.

Alan, I have seen some very smart dogs do neat things, many herding dogs for instance are highly trained, but they still get excited. It is up to you of course, we each get to chose how to act, but should any off-leash dog trigger an accident or whatever I hope you and others realize that as the owner you'll most likely bear the responsibility and liability.

cryptid01

If it doesn't sound something like "d0uchebag up!" you're being disingenuous.

TimJ

Dogs are great.

Dog owners however are often self-centered dooshbags who think you're being rude if you don't like putting up with their dog. It's like a smoker getting pissed because you're pissed he just blew smoke in your face.

And if we're talking about trails dog **** can carry and transfer parasites and diseases to wildlife, it's also full of nitrogen and helps non-native plants to grow, and it's also just disgusting for dog **** to be all over the trail (dog poop smells because of their diet, unlike wild animal poop). I'd be very surprised if even the most conscientious dog owner here actually picked up and packed out their dogs crap every time they go riding. And you need to. Leaving your dog's **** near a trail is a sure sign you're a total *******.

Everyone thinks their dog is special and doesn't need a leash even when they're supposed to use one. I've got news for you: you're not objective. In fact your estimation of how special and well-behaved your dog is is completely subjective and arbitrary. Maybe your dog runs up to people and begs them for attention and you think that's perfectly fine and really cute. **** you, you don't get to decide how other people view your dog. If they don't like it, and don't want to deal with it, that's your problem, not theirs.

Hell, why don't you start ripping farts on the elevator and act like a victim when people get angry with you?

If other people have to deal with your dog when you're out with your dog then your dog isn't special and should be on a leash. Even if your dog is in fact very well-behaved you should still have it on a leash if it's required because, hello, it's your ****ing dog. No one else knows your dog and knows what it's like and knows what it's capable of, and pardon me if I got this all wrong, but aren't dogs pack animals? Aren't they territorial and protective? Gee, I'm out on the trail and I see your goddamn dog coming at me I don't know if he's just going to trot by minding its own business or if I'm going to have to try to kick its ****ing brain in because I remind him of some chew toy he wants to murder. Maybe your dog is the most wonderful dog on the planet but who the **** are you? I don't know you and I don't know him, all I know is some stranger and his unleashed dog are coming down the trail and do I need to stop and get off my bike because the dog is going to run into my wheel, do I need to start peddling faster becuase he's going to chase me, do I need to slow down to watch for poop from now on... I don't ****ing know so because I don't know I have to slow waaaay down and poke along until I get past this jackass making me deal with his dog, interrupting my ride.

But you love your dog and don't know me (or anyone else using the trail) so you don't give a **** how your dog affects anyone or anything. Right? Right.