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Old 10-20-04, 08:53 AM   #1
nathank
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"All-Mountain" bike to replace my RM Slayer

so my '04 Rocky Mountain Slayer that i was pretty darn happy with got ripped off from a hotel garage in Lake Garda Italy (yeah, it sucks!)

so i'm taking my time looking for a replacement (i've got my Specialized FSR still and besides winter is on the way so more "mud" riding than Freeride)

i ride Freeride, although now that term has come to mean mostly lift-serviced downhill (which i do do some) but is more "All-Mountain"

i want a bike that can climb up anything (= not a heavy downhill bike)
but then is built to take the punishment for the downhill... i don't do MAJOR drops and stuff, but do ride super-techincal stuff (rocky, tight switchbacks, etc) and ride in the Biek Parks a few times a year.

the only complaint i had with the Slayer is that the rear bushings where the frame attaches to the frame were worn out BEFORE my brake pads!! apparently it's a design FEATURE so that any side-ways force is taken out on the aluminum bushings rather than the shock or the frame... (and a friend of mine with a different bike has blown his shoock 3 times this year - maybe connected? who knows)

anyhow, instead of just immediatley just buying another Slayer i am looking around.

what do i want:
* full supsension with 120-150mm front and 100-150mm rear.
* all built with bash-guard and pedals and all, should be less than 33lbs (max max 36)
--> which means the listed "weight" of the bike should be 30-33lbs or so.
* geometry so you can still make it uphill (the Slayer here was awesome)
--> probably best with an adjustable fork to improve uphill
* otherwise tough frame as i ride a lot and really punish my bike (i was REALLY afriad of breaking my FSR frame before i got the Slayer)
* oh, the frame must accomodate MINIMUM 2.5" tires and preferably with room to spare
* as for components and stuff i do not go top-of-the-line -- around LX/XT unless the bike gets WAY over my weight limit, but should be ok
* let's see: i am 6'1" and 165lbs or so

i will probably again set it up with 3 front chainrings and a bolt-on rockring... maybe this time with chainguide??

questions:
i REALLY loved the feeling of the Fox Vanilla coil-spring fork on the Slayer... are the newest air forks REALLY that much better (the Talas, the new Minute, etc) or should i still shoot for a coil fork?

so ideas:
* Specialized Enduro
* Fusion Whiplash/Freak
* another Slayer? (like i said it was great, but i have the impression that it is the best of the "old" technology as it has changed little since 2001)
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Old 10-20-04, 09:02 AM   #2
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Kona coiler? I'm not sure of the bikes weight though.
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Old 10-20-04, 11:26 AM   #3
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i'm not entirely sure about this, but i think it might be tough finding an all-mountain/trail bike that light that has as much tire clearance you're wanting.

i think the coiler's going to be in the upper limit of his desired weight range - probably 35+.

you've got quite a few options in terms of do it all bikes. the enduro's pretty dope - you might want to check out the sx trail if it's within your price range. there's also the sc heckler, the coiler - as forum*rider suggested. ironhorse's hollowpoint is a nice bike too.

edit: oops, hit the post button instead of the preview button by accident...

just checked the santa cruz site, the heckler can fit at least a kenda 2.6. so tire clearance for that bike shouldn't be a real problem... i'm running tioga 2.3s on my fluid and i've noticed a tiny bit of the paint has rubbed off on one of the chainstays - and i assumed most trail/all mountain bikes would have similar tire clearance issues... i guess it's just norco, heh...

oh, and sorry to hear about your bike getting stolen. man, that sucks.
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Old 10-20-04, 11:40 AM   #4
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Cannondale Gemini
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Old 10-20-04, 11:46 AM   #5
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Sorry about your bike My bike isnt worth half of yours and i would probably cry since i wouldnt beable to replace any time soon.
Anyhow, I have no idea about tire clearance but you should check out the yeti 575, k2 lithium I heard was good, the 05 iron horse hollowpoint MKIII as rasheed mentioned look awsome but they're a brand new design so no reviews yet, turner 5spot and finally the new turner 6pack should fit most if not all of your requirements.
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Old 10-20-04, 12:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuBHuMaN12356
Cannondale Gemini
the gemini's a dh/fr bike. i think it's a bit too much bike for his wants/needs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by crgowo
the 05 iron horse hollowpoint MKIII as rasheed mentioned look awsome but they're a brand new design so no reviews yet, turner 5spot and finally the new turner 6pack should fit most if not all of your requirements.
i was actually referring to the 2004 hollowpoints. they're very decent trailbikes that fit the criteria nathan's looking for. the 2005 hollowpoints have added travel and are more freeride oriented than the previous hollowpoints. they'll probably cost a bit more too. as for designs go, if i'm not mistaken, the 2004 hollowpoints were already using the dw-link that ironhorse is using on their fr/dh bikes for 2005. and from what i've of reviews of the hollowpoint, most people seem to love them.

oh yeah, and i forgot about the turners in my first post too.
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Old 10-20-04, 12:50 PM   #7
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Kona Dawg or Santa Cruz Heckler?
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Old 10-20-04, 01:09 PM   #8
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I vote for the Heckler.....but what about the Ventana X-5?
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Old 10-20-04, 01:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasheed

the 2005 hollowpoints have added travel and are more freeride oriented than the previous hollowpoints.
actually the 05 hollowpoints are trail bikes with 5inch travel. the 7point series are freeride bikes with 7.? travel. The 04 hollowpoints are nice as well but only have 4.5 rear travel.
Here is their 05 lineup with DW-Link sus.
http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/news...leview&id=2182
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Old 10-20-04, 01:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crgowo
actually the 05 hollowpoints are trail bikes with 5inch travel. the 7point series are freeride bikes with 7.? travel. The 04 hollowpoints are nice as well but only have 4.5 rear travel.
Here is their 05 lineup with DW-Link sus.
http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/news...leview&id=2182
oh that's right. my bad . i got the two mixed up.
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Old 10-20-04, 01:59 PM   #11
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[QUOTE=nathank]the only complaint i had with the Slayer is that the rear bushings where the frame attaches to the frame were worn out BEFORE my brake pads!! apparently it's a design FEATURE so that any side-ways force is taken out on the aluminum bushings rather than the shock or the frame... (and a friend of mine with a different bike has blown his shoock 3 times this year - maybe connected? who knows)

Common RM problem actually. Rm series and the slayer. One of the reasons I never recommend their bikes.

Quote:
what do i want:
* full supsension with 120-150mm front and 100-150mm rear.
* all built with bash-guard and pedals and all, should be less than 33lbs (max max 36)
--> which means the listed "weight" of the bike should be 30-33lbs or so.
* geometry so you can still make it uphill (the Slayer here was awesome)
--> probably best with an adjustable fork to improve uphill
* otherwise tough frame as i ride a lot and really punish my bike (i was REALLY afriad of breaking my FSR frame before i got the Slayer)
* oh, the frame must accomodate MINIMUM 2.5" tires and preferably with room to spare
* as for components and stuff i do not go top-of-the-line -- around LX/XT unless the bike gets WAY over my weight limit, but should be ok
* let's see: i am 6'1" and 165lbs or so
Enduro. My buddy was a big guy and abused the crap out of this bike. Took everything the mountain had to offer (he was a smooth rider) and had very few issues. Good geometry for climbing, fsr and still pretty tough.

Quote:
i will probably again set it up with 3 front chainrings and a bolt-on rockring... maybe this time with chainguide??
Evil offers a 3 ring chainguide. As do other companies.

Quote:
questions:
i REALLY loved the feeling of the Fox Vanilla coil-spring fork on the Slayer... are the newest air forks REALLY that much better (the Talas, the new Minute, etc) or should i still shoot for a coil fork?
I still prefer spring.
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Old 10-20-04, 03:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelstrom
Evil offers a 3 ring chainguide. As do other companies.
you sure? i'm only aware of the srs (single) and drs (double).

these guys make a 3 ring chain guide... http://www.montaramtb.com/ (link courtesy of petefagerlin.com)


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Old 10-20-04, 03:12 PM   #13
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I am pretty sure. If they don't yet it is in the works. I have read it about it I am 100% sure

http://www.e13components.com/3rs.html

Soon
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Old 10-20-04, 03:17 PM   #14
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man, just when i've decided to drop my big ring in favour for a double ring set up... hahah oh well.

i don't think e13's actually got those out yet. i remember before i bought my holzfeller double i was looking for a bashguard and a chainguide for a triple ring set up and couldn't find anything.

thanks for the link, mael.
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Old 10-20-04, 03:44 PM   #15
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"It is in the works"

And the link I gave says "coming soon"

They were expecting them out by next spring I think There is 2 or 3 others available though.
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Old 10-22-04, 09:54 AM   #16
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thanks...

good to hear good reports on the Enduro. they're redesigned it for 2005 and it looks good. the SX Trail or one of the models looks really sweet but is not cheap... not sure if i can get sponsorship from Specialized...

i was on the Specialized website last week and i think almost all of the models were with air forks... i'd like to have coil fork and (maybe) coil shock although keeping the weight down i think i could go for an air shock...

Hollowpoint i know almost nothing about, but briefly looked at the link and looks good!

Santa Cruz i know mostly from XC so i'll check into the Heckler...

i think i checked out the Kona Dawg when looking for the Slayer and they're got a bunch of different settups and weights i think??

i'll do a little more research beginning of next week and post some more.

we've got an awesome "indian Summer" weekend here (which is rare) so doing a big Freeride tour tomorrow... maybe i'll have some more video footage (oh yeah, i still haven't posted by first video here, but i will sometime although not sure how since it's HUGE)
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Old 10-22-04, 10:43 AM   #17
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A couple of the make's suggested here are'nt readily availible in the U.k. Kona is and the Coiler is one of the bike's i'm intrested in along with the new Enduro and C'Dale Prophet. The Coiler is kinda on the heavy side at around 35-38lb mark but it has coil shocks and is built to take abuse.

I'm into the same kind of riding as you, the demo Coiler I tried was very good it felt very solid, had tight handling and lots of rock swallowing suspension. And I think I would feel comfortable riding the bike all day, all in I think it had a good balance between being light enough to ride most of the day and still be strong enough for the hairy stuff.

The Dawg also looks good but I've never ridden one. I wanted something with more than 4 inche's of travel. (Actualy has Kona up'd the travel on the Dawg for 2005???)

Marc

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Old 12-05-04, 03:44 PM   #18
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hey, thanks for the thoughts... i'm still looking but hoping to buy something in the next few weeks when i am back in the US for xmas.

i am currently torn between buying an "all-mountain" bike similar to my slayer or a step up to an even touger, but heavier bike with little more travel and coil suspenion, but i am also hoping to not break the bank (thinking maybe used/ebay to stay under $2k) with a max max of $3k

all-mountain:
sanya cruz heckler
kona dawg
specialized enduro (05 too expensive, 04 or 03 maybe)
RM Slayer
Yeti 575
Ironhorse MKIII Team
Giant??

freeride:
Santa Cruz Bullit
RM Switch
Kona Coiler

in some ways i kind of want another all-mountain bike so lighter weight so better for climbing (i do LOTS of climbing), but then i am VERY fit so i can pedal a 35-38lb bike and keep up with most on touring bikes...
main thing is i am wanting something that is DURABLE and won't break -- maybe the new technology is improving, but i still think a coil fork and coil shock will outlast and require way less maintenance ($$) than air fork/shock. and i guess my only other reason not to be a real downhill bike with lots of travel is that i already have only a handfull of friends (bighit, switch, enduro) to ride with... but then on the other hand it's not really an issue as the same is pretty much true with me on an all-mountain bike (i am a MTB tour guide and i have to seriously "tone-down" the technical/downhill parts of all of my rides even when i ride my FSR)

i guess i am most leaning towards buying a super-durable frame with low-side freeride fork travel (say 130-150mm)... Switch, Bullit, Coiler, Dawg, Heckler...

opinions? and what about used (04, 03 or maybe 02) bikes? is it a "bad idea" to buy used freeride bikes as the owner probably rides like i do (i can wear out a bike in 6 months and must replace most components once a year)?? or are the "only ridden 3 times" or "like new" ebay statements often actually sort-of true?

anyone know what the Kona Coiler weighs? with simliar components is it less than the Switch or Bullit?

also, if i go up to a "freerider" should i stick with the same frame size, or go a little smaller? i am 6'1", my '02 Specialized FSR size "L" and my '04 RM Slayer 18" both fit me well... is the S/M/L or the frame _inch_ size to go by? e.g. Heckler is M-18, L-19, Bullit M-17, L-19, Switch M-18, L-19.5 (for the switch i'd take the M)

ideally i'd like to actually test-ride, but if i find a good deal via ebay, you think i could buy something like this sight-unseen? i.e. correctly guess size as well as make the right "feel" choice?

right now most leaning towards:
--> Coiler, Dawg, Heckler, Bullit, Switch (unfortunately not really in any order)
the coiler seems right-on, but i'm not sure of the weight
Bullit and Switch are probably a little on the heavy side (and both pricey)
Heckler and Dawg i might have to upgrade bit (air forks/shocks) - the 100mm fork standard on the Dawg seems like a joke!
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Old 12-05-04, 03:49 PM   #19
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http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=1422

according to this review the coiler dee-lux weighs in at 36lbs built up with saint and some XT bits.

For the bottom of the line coiler I would say around 39lbs?
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Old 12-05-04, 06:23 PM   #20
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and anyone know anything about the Giant AC1/AC2?
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Old 12-05-04, 06:34 PM   #21
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What do you want to know. A lot like the slayer that was Giants first answer to freeriding. However freeriding outgrew the bike 2 years ago. It would now be considered a great all mountain bike.

The only issue I know of, is for heavy riders, it has flex in the rear end some people can feel. At your size this might be an ideal bike
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Old 12-06-04, 12:51 AM   #22
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Santa Cruz Heckler or VP-Free whichever is good.
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Old 12-07-04, 04:33 PM   #23
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The 04 Coiler has 5" of travel and could be called an all mountain bike albeit a heavy one at around 35lb, but the new Coiler has extra travel with 6" and is now more of a FR only bike and has gained weight at around 38-39lb for the stock coiler. The 04 Coiler is still a good bike and with the new ones coming out you can get a good deal on a 04 Coiler, the srp was 1500 but I've seen loads of offers for around 1100-1050 new which is a bargin. One thing I did'nt like about the 04 Coiler was, on the test ride I found the suspension very springy, I had heard the term pogo stick applied to the coiler on this forum and I could see why, although I was assured the suspension could be adjusted to give more damping and slower rebound. The Coiler Dee-lux was not as bad.
But bike deals seem to be getting better each year with even more kit thrown in for you money! The 05 Dawgs and Coilers seem to me even better equip'd for the same rrp as last year.
The standard 1500 Dawg now has 5" travel over last years 4" http://www.konaworld.com/shopping_ca...8&parentid=182 its a bike I'm also very intrested in, either that or a 1350 Marin Rock springs http://www.marinbikes.com/bicycles_2...k_springs.html
The Marin Rocky Springs looks incredible value to me, although I like the overall spec of the 1650 Wolf Ridge better.
Also is the Marzocchi EXR pro shock on the 05 Dawg any good? I really like my Mx comp how does the EXR compare, anyone know the difference between an EXR comp and pro? I know the EXR comp has Mx comp SSV internals does the Pro use MX pro internals which is the better ssvf damping?

Marc
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Old 12-07-04, 05:01 PM   #24
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<<Also is the Marzocchi EXR pro shock on the 05 Dawg any good? I really like my Mx comp how does the EXR compare, anyone know the difference between an EXR comp and pro? I know the EXR comp has Mx comp SSV internals does the Pro use MX pro internals which is the better ssvf damping?>>


I've also been curious about the Dawg series from Kona. Definately all mtn and not FR from what I can see. Anyone know anything about the 'goods' and 'bads' of the various Dawgs; aside from just the changes in the component specs? How do they ride, hold up, etc?
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Old 12-07-04, 05:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathank
hey, thanks for the thoughts... i'm still looking but hoping to buy something in the next few weeks when i am back in the US for xmas.

i am currently torn between buying an "all-mountain" bike similar to my slayer or a step up to an even touger, but heavier bike with little more travel and coil suspenion, but i am also hoping to not break the bank (thinking maybe used/ebay to stay under $2k) with a max max of $3k
Tough decision. Lots of choices. You could find an in between even. I really think the heckler, canondale prophet etc. would suit well. Besides weight coiler is decent. But it is basically an 01 stinky.

Quote:
in some ways i kind of want another all-mountain bike so lighter weight so better for climbing (i do LOTS of climbing), but then i am VERY fit so i can pedal a 35-38lb bike and keep up with most on touring bikes...
main thing is i am wanting something that is DURABLE and won't break -- maybe the new technology is improving, but i still think a coil fork and coil shock will outlast and require way less maintenance ($$) than air fork/shock. and i guess my only other reason not to be a real downhill bike with lots of travel is that i already have only a handfull of friends (bighit, switch, enduro) to ride with... but then on the other hand it's not really an issue as the same is pretty much true with me on an all-mountain bike (i am a MTB tour guide and i have to seriously "tone-down" the technical/downhill parts of all of my rides even when i ride my FSR)
You are in good uphill climbing shape. Why not spoil yourself with a burlier slightly heavy bike. You would still smoke most people up, but the bike really opens up options coming down.

Quote:
i guess i am most leaning towards buying a super-durable frame with low-side freeride fork travel (say 130-150mm)... Switch, Bullit, Coiler, Dawg, Heckler...
Pike or z1fr1. z1fr1 still has working eta and will allow you to semi lock travel for those long climbs. Pike is new which would worry me. The marz has been around for 2 years now and is based on tech from 99....its proven.

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opinions? and what about used (04, 03 or maybe 02) bikes? is it a "bad idea" to buy used freeride bikes as the owner probably rides like i do (i can wear out a bike in 6 months and must replace most components once a year)?? or are the "only ridden 3 times" or "like new" ebay statements often actually sort-of true?
Don't like used duallies.


anyone know what the Kona Coiler weighs? with simliar components is it less than the Switch or Bullit?

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also, if i go up to a "freerider" should i stick with the same frame size, or go a little smaller? i am 6'1", my '02 Specialized FSR size "L" and my '04 RM Slayer 18" both fit me well... is the S/M/L or the frame _inch_ size to go by? e.g. Heckler is M-18, L-19, Bullit M-17, L-19, Switch M-18, L-19.5 (for the switch i'd take the M)
Depends. Do you catch air or are you just doing steep technical stuff. You are an experienced enough ride to know where you like your bike to fit. If a big bike hasn't limited you to this point the big fr bike likely won't either. Just look are robbie bourdon. Shortest man in fr and riding a bike build for someone 5;9. He is used to it, even though it looks ridiculous, and it sure doesn't stop him from doing ANYTHING.

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ideally i'd like to actually test-ride, but if i find a good deal via ebay, you think i could buy something like this sight-unseen? i.e. correctly guess size as well as make the right "feel" choice?
Again I don't buy used fr duallies

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right now most leaning towards:
--> Coiler, Dawg, Heckler, Bullit, Switch (unfortunately not really in any order)
the coiler seems right-on, but i'm not sure of the weight
Bullit and Switch are probably a little on the heavy side (and both pricey)
Heckler and Dawg i might have to upgrade bit (air forks/shocks) - the 100mm fork standard on the Dawg seems like a joke!
Buillits with a sc fork on the front can be built late 30's. I have ridden one. Damn nice bike. Personally, if I had coin anyways, I would go with a vp-free. But I don't mind a heavier bike .

good luck
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