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  1. #1
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    hello all from new guy!

    hello all;
    ivan here from florida. i recently bought a 10 year old 4500 and would like to know what i can upgrade on a budget. it rides well with the only problem being when shifting from 2 to 3 on the crank, i have to push the lever twice to get it to catch. other than that, it is ok.
    i may replace the saddle for a more comfortable one. i am thinking of replacing the crank, chain and cassette as well. what parts could and should i get? do i need to? any and all suggestions are appreciated. thank you.
    oh, and what sites are good for buying parts.
    Last edited by 4500trek; 02-15-11 at 06:22 PM. Reason: add more info.

  2. #2
    Pedals, Paddles and Poles Daspydyr's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard! There are a ton of guys around here that have the hook up on websites. I'm pretty bland and buy from Bluesky, Jenson and Nashbar. Since you are having trouble shifting up front you might start with a front derailer. It could also be a simple adjustment that your LBS (Local Bike shop) can help with. Saddles, rims and tires are areas that have been helpful to me.

    If you need new tires soon, be sure to pay attention to the tire (Spell it TYRE and a dude named Chel will pitch a fit) type so that it fits the conditions that you primarily ride in and weight.

    Enjoy that bike.
    I think its disgusting and terrible how people treat Lance Armstrong, especially after winning 7 Tour de France Titles while on drugs!

    I can't even find my bike when I'm on drugs. -Willie N.

  3. #3
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    start w/ cables

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    Senior Member mzeffex's Avatar
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    ohi
    Quote Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
    Are they talking about spectators feeding the cyclists? You know, like don't feed the bears?

  5. #5
    Reppin' the hacks crazyotte's Avatar
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    Get it tuned up by your LBS, then ask what they noticed.

  6. #6
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Sometimes the shifters get gummed up as they get older. Try shooting a bunch of WD-40 on the insides and running the shifter through its paces, then finish with some actual lubrication (TriFlow oil, etc) when they're working again. WEAR EYE PROTECTION, because they can spit the lube back at you, and guess how I know THAT

    A set of high-quality tires and lightweight inner tubes can make a nice upgrade, and won't be too complex compared to drivetrain upgrades. What sort of riding do you plan to do... like, cross-country racing, general trail riding for fun, road rides, etc?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
    Sometimes the shifters get gummed up as they get older. Try shooting a bunch of WD-40 on the insides and running the shifter through its paces, then finish with some actual lubrication (TriFlow oil, etc) when they're working again. WEAR EYE PROTECTION, because they can spit the lube back at you, and guess how I know THAT

    A set of high-quality tires and lightweight inner tubes can make a nice upgrade, and won't be too complex compared to drivetrain upgrades. What sort of riding do you plan to do... like, cross-country racing, general trail riding for fun, road rides, etc?
    that has been done and every cable moves freely. the front shifting is the only issue. i will have to call to find out how much tuning costs. regarding riding, general trail and road. being that i have never had this type bike, and being it is 10 years old, i want it to be in top condition. should i be concerned about the chain and gears at all? would the chain stretch over time? i know stuff wears down so i want to be sure everything is good so i don't breakdown somewhere.

  8. #8
    Pedals, Paddles and Poles Daspydyr's Avatar
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    Chain stretch is a HUGE issue on a 10 year old bike. The chain can also be a source of shifting problems. Check the Sheldon Browne Thread in Bike Mechanics for measuring your chain. You can buy a $10. tool to measure it as well. It is best to take the chain off your bike, clean it with simple green or a similar cleanser. NO WD40 on the bike. Put the chain in a gatorade type bottle and fill it halfway with Simple Green. Shake it, leave it, repeat for @ an hour. Then lube it with a Tri flow or White Lighting type chain lube. Its my system. Always seems to imrove the performance. I lube about once a month.

    Be sure to towel dry the chain really well or you will get dirty really fast.
    I think its disgusting and terrible how people treat Lance Armstrong, especially after winning 7 Tour de France Titles while on drugs!

    I can't even find my bike when I'm on drugs. -Willie N.

  9. #9
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    i went to check the chain and it is worn, as well as the cassette, which is now ramped instead of round. i think i paid too much for this bike and may end up paying the piper in repairs unless i do them myself.
    what do you guys recommend i do and if i do repair, where should i get parts? this is what i was afraid of.

  10. #10
    Pedals, Paddles and Poles Daspydyr's Avatar
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    http://www.blueskycycling.com/, or if you have a REI close by. REI has become a real friend of mine.

    Cassettes are tricky if you don't have the right tools. Best done by a pro.
    I think its disgusting and terrible how people treat Lance Armstrong, especially after winning 7 Tour de France Titles while on drugs!

    I can't even find my bike when I'm on drugs. -Willie N.

  11. #11
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    what is REI?

  12. #12
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    REI is Recreational Equipment Incorporated. Their site is www.rei.com so you can check for a local REI store.

    I looked up a 2000 Trek 4500 for its specs. I see it runs an 8-speed cassette on the rear wheel, which is good because that wheel can also take 9-speed and 10-speed cassettes. You wouldn't have to spend a lot to get a new chain, cassette and crankset for that bike.

    SRAM cassette, $17: http://aebike.com/product-list/sram-...6-m15958-qc30/
    SRAM chain, $13: http://aebike.com/product/sram-pc-83...h1034-qc30.htm
    Shimano Acera crankset, $43: http://aebike.com/product/shimano-ac...r7593-qc30.htm

    Along with those items, you'd want a Park Tool FR-5G lockring tool and a chain whip to change cassettes, and a crank puller such as the Park Tool CWP-7C. I'm assuming you already have a medium-sized adjustable wrench, otherwise get one of those too. Oh, and a chain tool such as the Park Tool CT-5 for the chain installation, mainly just trimming the chain to the right length. So that's maybe $50-60 in tools that'll be handy for the long run.

    If you're interested in a jack-of-all-trades tire for a reasonable price, these aren't bad and you can get them from Trek dealers: http://bontrager.com/model/08058 I suggest the $25ish base model.

    A set of clipless pedals and shoes would also be a real upgrade. The Shimano PD-M520 pedals are tough and cheap, around $50-$55. Shoes range all over the place, probably want to buy those locally anyway.

  13. #13
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    mech;
    thank you for all the info. should i get a crank set with the same amount of teeth, or does it matter? i have been pricing items and they aren't that bad. i might as well buy the tools as i will be riding for a while.
    i called my local shop and they told me about $150 parts and labor for chain and cassette and tune.
    i am a mechanic so i have plenty of tools.
    Last edited by 4500trek; 02-17-11 at 08:34 AM.

  14. #14
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    Why do you want to change the crankset?

    Your 2-3 shifting issue sounds more like the shifter (assuming you mean what I think you mean when you say it doesn't catch). My FD shifter on my 1992 Stumpjumper does the same thing (it feels like the shift lever isn't pulling the cable until the second or third pull). I only use that bike for crappy weather commuting so I haven't bothered to pull the shifter apart and figure out what is wrong.

    My philosophy on chain/cassette/ring replacement is different than some others so take this for what it is worth. I would suggest that you just replace the chain for now. If you have jumping/skipping issues with the new chain, then replace the cassette. Otherwise, just ride it with the existing cassette until you have issues.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by never View Post
    Why do you want to change the crankset?

    Your 2-3 shifting issue sounds more like the shifter (assuming you mean what I think you mean when you say it doesn't catch). My FD shifter on my 1992 Stumpjumper does the same thing (it feels like the shift lever isn't pulling the cable until the second or third pull). I only use that bike for crappy weather commuting so I haven't bothered to pull the shifter apart and figure out what is wrong.

    My philosophy on chain/cassette/ring replacement is different than some others so take this for what it is worth. I would suggest that you just replace the chain for now. If you have jumping/skipping issues with the new chain, then replace the cassette. Otherwise, just ride it with the existing cassette until you have issues.
    hi never;
    thank you also. i don't have to replace the crank unless i have to. the cassette is worn as most of the teeth are sharp and pointed and the valleys are quite ramped. i will just do that and leave the crank alone.

  16. #16
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    If the cassette's that shot, the crank may also have a lot of wear, so I lean towards replacing the whole setup and then you don't have the risk of chain "lash" from a chain and crank that don't mesh well due to the difference in wear levels. If you do get a new crank, it's not mandatory to get the same number of teeth, but the ones that fit square-taper axles pretty much fall into one of two categories: compact-drive 22-32-4x (a 42 or 44), or else fullsize-drive 26-36-4x (46 or 48). The latter could cause major convolutions in your drivetrain upgrade, so I'd go with the former unless your top priority is a really fast high gear for roads and downhill.

  17. #17
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    mech;
    the one on there now is 24/34/42 shimano. so a 22/32/42 or 44 will work? if that is the case, i will order all the parts and tools to do the job. i called the shop, and for the price they will charge me to replace just the cassette and chain i can buy everything and have money left over.

    what do you think about getting a crank with the guard?

    my bike's tires are 26x1.95. someone local is selling a like new pair that are 26x2.00. can i use that size?
    Last edited by 4500trek; 02-17-11 at 02:29 PM.

  18. #18
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    If the chainrings really are worn, why is everyone suggesting he buy a new crankset? Just replace the rings and save some money.

  19. #19
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    they are welded on. i have to replace the whole thing. unless they can be taken off? i don't know. i am new to this so you guys tell me?

    mech recommended pedals and shoes. what is the purpose of the pedal with a clip?

  20. #20
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4500trek View Post
    mech;
    the one on there now is 24/34/42 shimano. so a 22/32/42 or 44 will work? if that is the case, i will order all the parts and tools to do the job. i called the shop, and for the price they will charge me to replace just the cassette and chain i can buy everything and have money left over.

    what do you think about getting a crank with the guard?
    The guard can be practical, nothing wrong with getting that kind as long as it fits your existing crank axle/bearing unit, which is called a "bottom bracket." In your case, you've got a square-taper type, probably a 113-115mm length. The difference in teeth will be OK, it'll alter the gearing ratios a little but that comes out in the wash.

    my bike's tires are 26x1.95. someone local is selling a like new pair that are 26x2.00. can i use that size?
    That should work, yeah. The thing that counts is the diameter of the metal rim where the edge of the tire (the tire's "bead") is supposed to sit. That's called the bead-seat diameter, and for your bike it's 559 millimeters. If you look at your tire sidewalls, and see a number such as 50-559 indicating approximate casing width and actual bead-seat diameter, that's where that comes from. So 559 means they fit your rim size. The width is seldom an issue except in extreme cases.

    About the pedals: you can pedal more efficiently if your foot stays positioned optimally on the pedal, and if you can move the pedals in circles instead of just pushing down on the front half of the pedal stroke. That's why racers used toeclips and straps in the old days (to get full pulling power, you had to cinch the straps too), and then a ski-binding company started making pedals that worked somewhat like a ski binding. Since these new-fangled pedals didn't have toeclips, they were called "clipless" pedals, and they still are.

    The principle is that your pedals come with a cleat that bolts to your shoe. The cleat latches into the pedal when you step down, and to unlatch it, you just swing your heel outward (they also release if you crash). So you can pedal in full circles, and your foot stays in the right place and doesn't slip off.

  21. #21
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    how about the rear derailleur? should i be concerned with it? replace it? leave alone?

  22. #22
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4500trek View Post
    how about the rear derailleur? should i be concerned with it? replace it? leave alone?
    If it's healthy, keep using it. The main things to look for:

    1. is it bent. This often ends with the derailleur getting snagged in the spokes and ripped up by the wheel. Put the derailleur in a middle gear and sight on it from behind, and the pulleys and their cage should be in the same plane as the bike, not aiming funny directions.

    2. is it getting floppy in the parallelogram pivots. A little play may not be critical on 8-speed, but lots of play can interfere with the accuracy of the shifting. While looking at the derailleur from behind, hold the pulley cage at the bottom pulley and gently push it left & right with finger force while observing how much play there is. A new derailleur might have nearly none, a shot derailleur might have 1/2 inch.

    3. are any parts damaged. The pulleys sometimes get teeth broken off in mishaps, and the adjuster barrel that the cable enters from the rear can get bent.


    Beyond that, I'd make sure it's adjusted right so it doesn't bail the chain into the spokes, or jam it against the frame, or growl against the big cog in low gear. Park Tool has a guide here: http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help

  23. #23
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    i have upgraded the bike with new cassette and chain. as expected, the cassette had very worn teeth and bent ones. of course chain was sloppy. the replacement of parts using the right tools was easy. the cleanup of old grease, dirt and sand took several hours though. the crank was caked man! i also cleaned and adjusted the brakes, readjusted the derailleurs. shifts 100% better, although maybe some fine tuning will get it tighter.
    i didn't replace the crank but will soon because it needs it. i was told at the shop that an 18" is big for me as i am 5'6". rather than get a smaller bike, the tech suggested relacing the handlebar with one with more rise, but would have to replace the cables too. it rides fine, but after a while i start to feel strain in my shoulders and neck. it looks complicated to replace, which is something i won't do.
    i want to replace the saddle for a more comfortable one; but am i to buy 10-20 different saddles to find a nice one? that is what it seems like.

  24. #24
    I fear angry birds Santaria's Avatar
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    If you are a mechanic, then you know that charcoal fluid is actually the same chemical used to wash machine parts. So just get a bucket, and wash all your drivetrain parts in a solution of...charcoal fluid. Hint: Don't smoke, or have open flames.

    Simple green also removes old crapola but usually requires some soaking. If you have access to an ordinary parts wash system - go with that.

    My boss always recommended we replace chain, cassette AND chainrings on older bikes. If your crank is a one piece affair with the chainrings welded to the crank, that becomes a different issue.

    Good luck.
    THE DEVIL

    Originally Posted by Scrodzilla
    If that was my house and you put your stupid bike in my flower garden to take a picture, I would come outside in my underwear and light you on fire.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santaria View Post
    If you are a mechanic, then you know that charcoal fluid is actually the same chemical used to wash machine parts. So just get a bucket, and wash all your drivetrain parts in a solution of...charcoal fluid. Hint: Don't smoke, or have open flames.

    Simple green also removes old crapola but usually requires some soaking. If you have access to an ordinary parts wash system - go with that.

    My boss always recommended we replace chain, cassette AND chainrings on older bikes. If your crank is a one piece affair with the chainrings welded to the crank, that becomes a different issue.

    Good luck.
    i've been wrenching all my life and didn't know that. i will remember that. the crank is one piece and am looking to get one with replaceable rings, something not very expensive but that will get the job done.
    what about saddle and handlebar?

    i am also getting a new crank set. do the peddles have right and left hand threads? any special way to take them off?
    Last edited by 4500trek; 03-02-11 at 07:10 PM.

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