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Old 04-22-02, 07:36 AM   #1
ofroading347
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Raleigh M600 is too heavy!!!!

Following my friends' advice, I traded in my Raleigh M50
for a brand new Raleigh M600 18" at my local bike shop. It uses the same frame as the more expensive Raleigh M800.
The only thing I replaced was the crank set: It came with the same heavy Shimano Acera arms as the M50 with Deore Chain rings, so I paid the difference to replace it for a Shimano XT Hollow Tech arms crank system. (Which is even lighter than the more expensive Shimano XTR)

I also transferred the XTR front derailleur I had installed on the M50, so
I'm really happy with the final result.

Even after installing the XT Hollow crankset, the resulting M600 weight is
still 32 pounds, and I still don't see where all this weight comes from.

The main components on my 18" Raleigh M600 are:

Frame: 7005 Double-Butted Heat Treated Aluminum (Weight unknown)

Fork: Rock Shox Judy SL 100mm Wt: 4.07 lb

Crankset: Shimano XT HollowTech Wt:1.43
(XTR weighs 1.51 lb, so XT is lighter)

Rims: Alex TD17 32h double-wall Disc Wt: 15.5 Oz
(Not bad, since Mavic 317 Disc Rims weigh 13.9 Oz)

Hubs: JoyTech Sealed Alloy, Disc Compatible (How bad are they? I
can't find specs for these hubs on the internet, I only
know they're made in Taiwan.
Are they heavier than Shimano XT Disc Hubs?)

Spokes: 14-Gauge Stainless Steel

Tires: WTB Enduroraptor 26 x 2.1

Brakes: Shimano Deore Mechanical Disc

Pedals: Shimano M-545 Clipless

Handlebar: 6061 Alloy 30mm Riser, 3.0 Wall

Bar Ends: Profile Design MTB Briefs

Stem: OS Threadless 10degree w/ Polished Cap

Seatpost: Alloy w/ Micro Adjust

Saddle: WTB Speed-V


I don't understand why some of my friends' Giant and Trek bikes can weigh
only 23-25 pounds, while mine, with good quality components, is 32 pounds. Where are my bike's extra 9 pounds? I suspect the frame. This is why I need to know the weight.



Thanks in advance.
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Old 04-22-02, 07:44 AM   #2
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The only obvious things ythat leap out are:

A) Your hubs
B) Your non-hydraulic discs
C) Your tyres

and possibly

D) Your rims
E) Your inner tubes (get Air-B latex)
F) Your handlebar (V.light is 150g upto 250g is very reasonable)
G) Your seatpost and saddle

Anything else I've missed ?

Getting a bike right down to fighting (posing ?) weight can cost alot of dosh for ttitanium bits etc.
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Old 04-22-02, 08:12 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Astra
The only obvious things ythat leap out are:

A) Your hubs
B) Your non-hydraulic discs
C) Your tyres
D) Your rims
E) Your inner tubes (get Air-B latex)
F) Your handlebar (V.light is 150g upto 250g is very reasonable)
G) Your seatpost and saddle
Sorry, Astra, I cannot envision a cumulative 4-kilo set of substitutions in your list. Despite today's space-age materials and components, frame/fork/suspension weight still largely determines bike weight, within 1-2kg.

Although I normally do not pay much attention to minor differences in nonrotating weight, (none of my bikes is "state-of-the-art light" in weight) I do admit that a 4kg weight penalty would be noticeable under many circumstances.
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Old 04-22-02, 08:59 AM   #4
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The hubs may be really heavy. I just went from no-name disc hubs to shimano xt disc hubs and noticed a big difference especially in the back. I've been told that cheap Bottom brackets can add alot of weight, I was forced to replace mine with an XT because I bent the axle. Going up to an XT cassette made a noticable difference as well. You might consider ditching your bar-ends if you're using a riser bar anyhow.
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Old 04-22-02, 09:02 AM   #5
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Question for Astra: Are latex tubes any less puncture resistant than butyl tubes? I ride over many 'a rock and root so it's an issue.
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Old 04-22-02, 11:41 AM   #6
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I think the parts I mentioned could very easily make 2-4lb difference, think of the weight difference between a big fat-a$$ cheapo saddle and a flite or a hope mini disc brakes compared to Deore cable operated or a cheap cro-mo handle bar compared to a 150g Answer bar. I'm not saying it would be cheap to do this but alot of generic no name bike kit is monstrously heavy compared to even modest, modern familiar name mountain bike kit.
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Old 05-16-02, 02:16 PM   #7
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The handlebar, stem and seatpost are not Chrome-Steel as you supposed.
They're 6061 Aluminum alloy.

This makes me wonder: How much weight be reduced by replacing these parts?

Also, which Stem, Handlebar and SeatPost offer the lowest weight?
I weigh 195 lb.

Thanks in advance!!!
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Old 05-17-02, 04:53 AM   #8
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Nobody said the seatpost, bars or stem were steel. Stems used to be steel and I have seen a chromoly bar but these are generally always Aluminium. The point is that the type of alloy affects how little aluminium you need to use in a component, Cheap stuff usually has very thick walls and hence is heavy.

Oh yeah, AirB's are supposed to be more puncture resistant than butyl tubes.
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Old 05-17-02, 08:58 AM   #9
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You can lighten a bike cosiderably as stated by replacing the stock aluminum products for the handlebars, stem, seatpost, with higher quality (durable) yet lighter parts. The other signifcant weight loss can be the bottom brackett, which I'm assuming you've already replaced when you replaced your cranks. If not, that's a smart way to go. You'll get a better (read, smoother) operation and shave weight.

I don't know exact weights or comparisons, but a Thomson elite is one of the best seatpost available for strength, weight, ease of adjustment, and overall durability. Probably around $80.

Stems. There are so many good ones to choose from. Thomson, Race Face, Easton, Ritchey....etc. Around another $60- 100.

Handlebars. Answer hyperlights are about $35.00 and up to Easton MonkeyLites (Carbon) for $110.00.

Also, as Astra and John E eluded to above, the BEST place to loose weight on a bike is the rotational mass. It may not cut the overall weight significantly, but the the bike will "FEEL" lighter. The further away from the center of rotation, the more dramatic the difference. In other words, replace your WTB tires with a lighter tire. I'd stick with regular tube over "latex", for durability and COST. Your rims are o.k., but if you were to go to a lighter wheelset that had a quality hub and double butted 14-15 gauge spokes, you'd definately notice a big difference. I'm not sure what the weight difference between a Joytech hub vs. an XT hub is, but I'm sure the quality in the XT is far superior.

Wheels. Mavic x317 with XT hubs and dbl butted spokes. @ $275 - 300.

Or, you could just sell your bike as is, and buy a lighter weight XC bike. I'd prefer to build up what I've got even though that might not be the "Cheapest" way to go. Shop close-outs to get deals on last years stuff. The stuff is still great, just not the Latest and greatest!

L8R
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Old 05-17-02, 09:55 AM   #10
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1) The Judy is an okay fork, but heavy for a weight weenie (myself included). You can lose 1 to 2 lbs. switching to a Manitou Mars or Rock Shox Sid. Keep in mind these are XC race forks with 80mm of travel. ($250 to $600)

2) Your Deore mechanical discs are notoriously heavy, but reputed to be good stoppers for the money. Switching Avid mechanicals will save another 1/2 lb. Going all the way to v-brakes, which would require rim changes, would save 2 to 4 lbs. ($200 to $300).

3) 14/15 DB spokes with alloy nipples make a huge difference in rotational weight. ($100)

4) Even though the XT crank is lighter, the XTR bottom bracket is much lighter than the XT's. Therefore, the XTR crank/bb combo is lighter than the XT or LX. However, XTR is much more durable and stiffer than XT/LX.

5) Don't compare your Raleigh frame to a Trek 9.8, Cannondale CAAD5, Specialized M4 or some other high-end racing frame. The M600 is a great value and reasonable trail bike, but it's frame is, most likely, 1 to 2 lbs. heavier than upper end hard tails.

6) Are your tires kevlar bead? There can be as much as 100 gram difference (not quite 1/4 lb.) between the kevlar and wire bead tires of the same type. Switching to a 1.95" kevlar beaded lightweight could knock off another 1/2 lb. ($70)

7) Switching saddles - Selle Italia Flight TT - 165 g. 1/2 lb. savings. ($70)

You'll spend hundreds - maybe a grand - to get to 25 lbs., and you may have to swap out wheels and go to v-brakes to get there.

I spend all last summer upgrading a Raleigh M80 that I raced all season. By the end of the summer I had a great bike and it weighed in at 25.5 lbs. Only the frame was stock. Then I upgraded the frame to a Giant NRS and only added 1/2 lb. FS and only 1/2 lb! The Raleigh frame was stiff, but not light.
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Old 10-11-02, 05:59 AM   #11
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Well, I did it again!!!
I upgraded my Raleigh M600 to a -yes, you guessed it- a Raleigh M800, and I'm really happy with it, since it's noticeably lighter than the M600.
After another 3 months with the M600, I was disappointed with how heavy it was, so a month ago I changed my bike again, this time for the top of the line M800. It's considerably lighter than the M600, and has a better fork and derailleur. The Koski stem, handlebar and seat post are lighter than the no-name ones on the M600. Also, the handlebar on the M600 was too wide. I'm happy with how this bike feels and looks. A similarly equipped Trek or Giant would cost double of what I paid for this bike.
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