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Old 02-24-12, 03:01 PM   #1
YamiRider1316
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So apparently carbon fiber is pretty durable

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/santa-c...-test-lab.html

the slam a frame into a concrete block test really sold me.
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Old 02-24-12, 04:30 PM   #2
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The fact that it's used in fighter jets, F1 suspension, and ball bats really sold me...twenty plus years ago.
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Old 02-24-12, 05:25 PM   #3
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. . . and kick-ass racing canoes.
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Old 02-24-12, 06:35 PM   #4
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Screw carbon fiber! STEEL IS REAL!
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Old 02-24-12, 06:59 PM   #5
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STEEL IS REAL RUSTY!
Fixed.




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Old 02-24-12, 08:34 PM   #6
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That was pretty awesome. I've never really doubted carbon (which is moot - I've never even ridden a carbon bike). I mean, hell, if it's strong enough to make Formula One frames out of...it should be good for mountain bikes.

Why is there reluctance towards CF in mountain biking anyway?

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Old 02-24-12, 09:02 PM   #7
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Why is there reluctance towards CF in mountain biking anyway?
Somebody probably broke a super-lightweight CF frame, and then the material took the blame rather than the construction.

It is all in the build spec.
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Old 02-24-12, 10:32 PM   #8
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I work at a bike shop and have seen plenty of broken carbon in real life. Wearthrough is another carbon-killer... pro tip, if your wheel is out of true and it's grazing your carbon frame, DO NOT RIDE IT LIKE THAT. This is why there are cell phones!

My own carbon hardtail died of a crack about halfway around the BB shell on the driveside... ahhh, so THAT'S why I was getting so much FD rub, I thought it was my massively powerful thighs or something I replaced it with an aluminum one (OH NOES, IT IS 1/2lb HEAVIER NOW!).
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Old 02-25-12, 12:17 PM   #9
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i've seen carbon crack, a rock strike at the right angle will do it. even cracked the bike rode without breaking. i've seen my friend ride his mojo hd for quite a while now, he is not gentle with it at all and he is still riding it. carbon is pretty good stuff.

i would say carbon is strong enough to outlast 80% of the people riding bikes. ive talked to people who say they don't think carbon can hold up, i don't tell them carbon bikes are faaaaar more capable than anything they will do with it.
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Old 02-25-12, 12:41 PM   #10
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I'm convinced of the durability of carbon fiber, but the devil is in the details, ie. how/how well it is designed and fabricated.
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Old 02-25-12, 12:46 PM   #11
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That was pretty awesome. I've never really doubted carbon (which is moot - I've never even ridden a carbon bike). I mean, hell, if it's strong enough to make Formal One frames out of...it should be good for mountain bikes.

Why is there reluctance towards CF in mountain biking anyway?
Lets see pretty well all of Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cannondale Santa Cruz, IBIS, etc etc. highest level XC and all mountain MTB's are carbon.
The last "pure downhill" bikes are going carbon as well. It's more why is there a reluctance to non-carbon bikes.
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Old 02-25-12, 12:59 PM   #12
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It's more why is there a reluctance to non-carbon bikes.
Reluctance toward non-CF? Do we need to take a poll of how many people here ride CF bikes vs everything else?
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Old 02-25-12, 01:02 PM   #13
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Reluctance toward non-CF? Do we need to take a poll of how many people here ride CF bikes vs everything else?

That's more a price issue than why are all the MFG's totally embracing carbon.
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Old 02-25-12, 01:09 PM   #14
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I realize that, but I still haven't seen any evidence at all of anyone being reluctant to buy an aluminum or steel bike just because stronger materials exist.
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Old 02-25-12, 01:29 PM   #15
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Nice vid. Thanks for posting.
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Old 02-25-12, 01:50 PM   #16
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Lets see pretty well all of Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cannondale Santa Cruz, IBIS, etc etc. highest level XC and all mountain MTB's are carbon.
I work at a dealership for one of the brands you mentioned, and the ratio of broken carbon frames to broken metal frames is very high in real life. Causes vary, but that's the bottom line from years of firsthand work on hundreds of them.

We have one in the shop right now that's cracking in two places where frame tubes took routine impacts from spills. And I'm talking XC-rider spills, not spectacular freeride bailouts. On an aluminum bike, these impacts would just be routine used-bike scratches, not a cause for structural compromise. The warranty department declined coverage because the bike had taken hits in those locations (as evidenced by the scratches in the paint).

If you like carbon and you're not fazed by this sort of thing, then by all means buy it. If you want something that's going to shrug off crash impact, then caveat emptor.
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Old 02-25-12, 02:09 PM   #17
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I work at a dealership for one of the brands you mentioned, and the ratio of broken carbon frames to broken metal frames is very high in real life. Causes vary, but that's the bottom line from years of firsthand work on hundreds of them.

We have one in the shop right now that's cracking in two places where frame tubes took routine impacts from spills. And I'm talking XC-rider spills, not spectacular freeride bailouts. On an aluminum bike, these impacts would just be routine used-bike scratches, not a cause for structural compromise. The warranty department declined coverage because the bike had taken hits in those locations (as evidenced by the scratches in the paint).

If you like carbon and you're not fazed by this sort of thing, then by all means buy it. If you want something that's going to shrug off crash impact, then caveat emptor.

Well in the same sort of thread in a different forum I mentioned an aluminium bike getting a 1/2" dent in the frame from "falling over" onto I think it was a coffee table.
And also thin wall aluminium tubing can be less than 4X the thickness of a beer can. So I don't think they can sustain any significant impacts to those areas either.
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Old 02-25-12, 02:31 PM   #18
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Well in the same sort of thread in a different forum I mentioned an aluminium bike getting a 1/2" dent in the frame from "falling over" onto I think it was a coffee table.
And also thin wall aluminium tubing can be less than 4X the thickness of a beer can. So I don't think they can sustain any significant impacts to those areas either.
The aluminum doesn't delaminate or fracture, though. It dents if it's hit hard enough, but it's still structural. You don't keep using it for six months and find that the dent has spread all the way around the tube, either.

I think if you asked a Boeing Dreamliner tech, they'd tell you they have a protocol for what to do if their carbon superplane parts take a direct hit from something like a goose. Not "oh haha LOL, the plane is carbon, it is teh invincibles, look at this bike manufacturer's PROMOTIONAL video with the concrete block!" but more like "ok, let's get the X-ray diffraction equipment and go over this before we certify it for flight."

I can remark that the problem is real enough that the brand we sell has added external rubber shields to the undersides of the downtube, as well as beefed up the tube construction, to deal with the threat of rock impact from the front wheel kicking rocks up into the path of the frame. Ask yourself why they'd do that if they didn't have to.

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Old 02-25-12, 03:14 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by YamiRider1316 View Post
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/santa-c...-test-lab.html

the slam a frame into a concrete block test really sold me.
So what qualifies "passing" the concrete block test? I guarantee they didn't build the frame back up and ride it the next day.

My point being this:...Even though it doesn't "explode" on you during use...you may still have to spend $2k getting it replaced because it's been compromised.

I think replacement interval is the biggest factor going into folk's decision to avoid carbon fiber. Few people dispute that it's a better frame material...just that it's functional durability isn't as solid as a metal frame that can be visually inspected when damage is suspected. So you took a hard fall this weekend...and your frame didn't break...does that mean it's still 100% structurally sound? Most people don't have a mobile x-ray machine at home...and I imagine that most folks also don't like the idea of replacing a $1500-3000 frameset after an unfortunate unplanned tumble in a rock garden.

I'm not against carbon fiber at all, but the replacement cost and interval definitely plays into my decision to buy it. Someday when I have the budget to cover potential damage to a carbon fiber frameset, I may fall in line with everyone else for one. Until then, however....

-Jeremy

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Old 02-25-12, 03:39 PM   #20
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Screw carbon fiber! STEEL IS REAL!
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Old 02-25-12, 04:28 PM   #21
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i'm waiting for an adamantium bike
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Old 02-25-12, 06:39 PM   #22
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The aluminum doesn't delaminate or fracture, though. It dents if it's hit hard enough, but it's still structural. You don't keep using it for six months and find that the dent has spread all the way around the tube, either.

I think if you asked a Boeing Dreamliner tech, they'd tell you they have a protocol for what to do if their carbon superplane parts take a direct hit from something like a goose. Not "oh haha LOL, the plane is carbon, it is teh invincibles, look at this bike manufacturer's PROMOTIONAL video with the concrete block!" but more like "ok, let's get the X-ray diffraction equipment and go over this before we certify it for flight."

I can remark that the problem is real enough that the brand we sell has added external rubber shields to the undersides of the downtube, as well as beefed up the tube construction, to deal with the threat of rock impact from the front wheel kicking rocks up into the path of the frame. Ask yourself why they'd do that if they didn't have to.
Could this be the reason that the Santa Cruz V-10 has only the front half of its frame molded in CF, while the rear is in Al-alloy?
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Old 02-26-12, 01:30 AM   #23
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Regardless of how strong it is or isn't, I find it quite telling the number of people in these forums that have stated that they'd never buy second-hand CF.

But I suspect thats just a complete lack of confidence in their own ability to properly access it.
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Old 02-26-12, 01:39 AM   #24
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i'm waiting for an adamantium bike
I keep trying to find an unobtanium one . . . but I can't.
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Old 02-26-12, 02:21 PM   #25
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http://www.popsci.com/technology/art...t-material-yet
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