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  1. #1
    Senior Member pablosnazzy's Avatar
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    my golly, how far we've come

    we were kicking back, watching my old Kranked video (on VHS. you see kids, years ago, we had things called "video tapes"...). they were "free riding" on 2" travel bikes.

    it's amazing (to me) that waaaaay back when, 4" travel was a downhill bike. 4" forks were big hit forks.

    nowadays, (at least around here) 5" travel is trail/cross country and 6" travel is all mountain.

    the technology is phenomenal, if you think about it. i ride a 6" travel bike as my main bike, uphills, etc, when years ago, a 4" travel bike was a heavy, huge, "downhill bike."

    yeah, the riding has stepped up a bit, the new technology lets us push the envelope, which makes us need to increase and push the technology, which pushes the riding, etc.

    what would brett tippie, ritchy schley, and wade simmons have done on today's bikes if they had them waaay back then?

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    Pedals, Paddles and Poles Daspydyr's Avatar
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    Did you see Bicycling Mag, Fruita got some love as a primo bike destination for both Fat and Skinny tires. I'm surprised your face wasn't on the cover.
    I think its disgusting and terrible how people treat Lance Armstrong, especially after winning 7 Tour de France Titles while on drugs!

    I can't even find my bike when I'm on drugs. -Willie N.

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    Bad Company dminor's Avatar
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    I am continually amazed by the number of people on this forum who seem stuck in the past and actively refuse to give all that 'newfangled gimmickry' a try, much less embrace it. The evolution of the lowly bicycle has become so downright exciting to see and enjoy. The advancements have actually helped fuel my passion for riding in all its forms. Yeah, retro has its place - - but not all the way back to retro-grouchiness .

    I'm just thankful that I live in a part of the mountain biking universe where embracing those advancements and making full use of them is more the norm than the exception.

  4. #4
    To be continued Dannihilator's Avatar
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    I still have the 1st three kranked videos on VHS and still have a video player.
    Strike like an eagle and sacrifice the dove.
    Words and Stuff.

  5. #5
    Senior Member pablosnazzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dminor View Post
    ...... The advancements have actually helped fuel my passion for riding in all its forms. .....
    same here. I am a sucky rider, the only reason i can do the stuff i do is because of my bike. my bike makes me such a better rider than i truly am. By being able to ride more, i am loving it more, and riding more, and getting better (slightly) etc etc.

    seriuosly, it is soooo cool....

  6. #6
    Senior Member pablosnazzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daspydyr View Post
    Did you see Bicycling Mag, Fruita got some love as a primo bike destination for both Fat and Skinny tires. I'm surprised your face wasn't on the cover.
    yeah, our shop is on the contents page and later on, it was cool. no way could i be in it, they only put good looking people on the cover of those mags....

  7. #7
    Fourth Degree Legend junkyard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pablosnazzy View Post
    we were kicking back, watching my old Kranked video (on VHS. you see kids, years ago, we had things called "video tapes"...). they were "free riding" on 2" travel bikes.

    it's amazing (to me) that waaaaay back when, 4" travel was a downhill bike. 4" forks were big hit forks.

    nowadays, (at least around here) 5" travel is trail/cross country and 6" travel is all mountain.

    the technology is phenomenal, if you think about it. i ride a 6" travel bike as my main bike, uphills, etc, when years ago, a 4" travel bike was a heavy, huge, "downhill bike."

    yeah, the riding has stepped up a bit, the new technology lets us push the envelope, which makes us need to increase and push the technology, which pushes the riding, etc.

    what would brett tippie, ritchy schley, and wade simmons have done on today's bikes if they had them waaay back then?
    Yeah, but that was way back when the earth was flat.
    Quote Originally Posted by dminor View Post
    The caveat with a strap-on, of course, is you will have to get creative with a couple of lock cables and an anchor point

  8. #8
    Redheaded Stepchild samburger's Avatar
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    I'm glad my first season of mountain biking was on a 10-year-old fully rigid bike, so I can at least somewhat relate to the advancements in biking technology. Having a 5.5" travel fork gives me more confidence than I even need on the trail, & also affects the geometry in a way that encourages keeping your weight low & to the rear on DH sections (since the frame was built for 120mm). People think I'm crazy to say I built my bike cheap at ~$1300, & I just laugh inside. That bike is worth every single penny.
    just a n00b with an ego

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    Quote Originally Posted by dminor View Post
    I am continually amazed by the number of people on this forum who seem stuck in the past and actively refuse to give all that 'newfangled gimmickry' a try, much less embrace it. The evolution of the lowly bicycle has become so downright exciting to see and enjoy. The advancements have actually helped fuel my passion for riding in all its forms. Yeah, retro has its place - - but not all the way back to retro-grouchiness .

    I'm just thankful that I live in a part of the mountain biking universe where embracing those advancements and making full use of them is more the norm than the exception.
    Agreed. The technical and engineering aspect of mountain biking is almost as exciting as the actual riding itself.

  10. #10
    Pedals, Paddles and Poles Daspydyr's Avatar
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    I like my Scott nude rear lock out shock. Its fun just saying that.
    I think its disgusting and terrible how people treat Lance Armstrong, especially after winning 7 Tour de France Titles while on drugs!

    I can't even find my bike when I'm on drugs. -Willie N.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pablosnazzy View Post
    ...

    what would brett tippie, ritchy schley, and wade simmons have done on today's bikes if they had them waaay back then?
    Still get their asses kicked by French people, probably.

    I remember watching Henrik Djernis (not French) win the world championship race at Vail on a rigid fork, when the entire rest of the field was using shocks. But the rest of the field didn't care, because they were having so much fun with their high-tech devices.

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    Too bad we didn't have 8mm back then or I could have shown you my brothers and I using old Columbia single speed bikes to ride through the fields to bring in the cows. We had stripped all non-essential parts off (all the stuff that rattled) and raced across the bumpy fields.

  13. #13
    Bad Company dminor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertHurst View Post
    I remember watching Henrik Djernis (not French) win the world championship race at Vail on a rigid fork, when the entire rest of the field was using shocks. But the rest of the field didn't care, because they were having so much fun with their high-tech devices.
    It may be noted that there really was not much difference between a rigid and a 2"-travel hardtail in those days.

    I got a kick out of all the riders walking their bikes down the steep section. Would be so unnecessary today; and speeds carried through a lot of the other descending sections would be quite different:


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertHurst View Post
    Still get their asses kicked by French people, probably.
    If we're just talking about XC racing, bikes haven't really changed much at all in a long time. Look at a 1995 Trek 9900 OCLV:

    http://www.bikepedia.com/quickbike/B...9900&Type=bike

    and compare it to a 2012 Elite 9.9 SSL:

    http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...lite_9_9_ssl/#

    Sure, forks are better now. And disk brakes are an improvement on Vs (although IMO not as much of an improvement as most people claim). But the basic picture of an XC race bike isn't much different now than it was then. (I couldn't find a geometry chart for the 9900, but I would be most surprised if it were any different from the 70/73 angles which are now standard. Anybody know?)

    Anyway, if you put Julien Absalon on a cherry 1995 OCLV, he would probaby still win.

    Freeride bikes are another matter, and fer sher the technology has advanced an incredible amount on that end. People are doing stuff that would have been unheard of in 1995. Yet with all of those technological advances, people are going back to rigid singlespeeds. Go figure.

    Diversity is good!
    My speculation was that it applies to some degree in cycling, and I used the previous proof as my reasoning, but I can't prove how exactly it applies to it and to what degree. That, I have admitted, is speculation based on reasoning, but not at this point provable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dminor View Post
    It may be noted that there really was not much difference between a rigid and a 2"-travel hardtail in those days.

    I got a kick out of all the riders walking their bikes down the steep section. Would be so unnecessary today; and speeds carried through a lot of the other descending sections would be quite different:

    ...
    Maybe, but if the bikes and riders are less optimized for the long climb than they were in '94, rigid fork guy could win by an even wider margin.

  16. #16
    Bad Company dminor's Avatar
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    ^^That just shows how little you really know about the new "high tech devices."

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    Quote Originally Posted by dminor View Post
    I got a kick out of all the riders walking their bikes down the steep section. Would be so unnecessary today; and speeds carried through a lot of the other descending sections would be quite different:
    I think a lot of them walking that section might be more to do with handlebar height than suspension. If you look, the guys that did ride that section had trouble because they couldn't get back far enough. Bar height was just too low compared to seat height and they couldn't get the weight back. Their seats had to be that high for pedaling, so I think higher bars would have been the answer. And as for them going as slow as they were on some sections, I think endurance played a factor there. Even if you look at the stairs, they kept doing that section pretty slowly and riding down the stairs. Even a hack like me could carry more speed and just gap those stairs, so I'm sure they could have if they felt it was the thing to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scyclops View Post
    Oh yeah, sure, what if everyone thought that way? Then internet forums would merely be places where rational people exchange useful information and ideas - instead of the chaotic, emotionally-charged circuses that they are.

  18. #18
    Still spinnin'..... Stealthammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pablosnazzy View Post
    we were kicking back, watching my old Kranked video. they were "free riding" on 2" travel bikes.....

    .....the technology is phenomenal, if you think about it. i ride a 6" travel bike as my main bike, uphills, etc, when years ago, a 4" travel bike was a heavy, huge, "downhill bike."......
    You should have been around when there was no suspension at all, and when most bikes had "cruiser" geometry (i.e., super long wheelbase, long chainstays (19-20"), short front end (20" TT), slack head/seat tube angles (69*/70*).....), and cantilevers were leading edge technology.


    Quote Originally Posted by dminor View Post
    I am continually amazed by the number of people on this forum who seem stuck in the past and actively refuse to give all that 'newfangled gimmickry' a try, much less embrace it......
    Me too, and I've been mountain biking since before 1982.....


    Quote Originally Posted by corvuscorvax View Post
    If we're just talking about XC racing, bikes haven't really changed much at all in a long time. Look at a 1995 Trek 9900 OCLV.....

    .....People are doing stuff that would have been unheard of in 1995. Yet with all of those technological advances, people are going back to rigid singlespeeds.
    Dude, 1995 was yesterday.....Look back to 1984.....

    ....And people aren't really doing stuff that would have been "unheard" of in 1995, they're just able to do it safely enough today that anyone can do it, and the really funny thing about all of the new rigid singlespeeds is that almost everyone else I see riding them is 25 years younger than me.
    Last edited by Stealthammer; 04-06-12 at 06:25 AM.
    Just your average 'high-functioning' lunatic, capable of passing as 'normal' for short periods of time.....

    “The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.” - Albert Einstein

    “We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak.” - Albert Einstein

  19. #19
    Senior Member pablosnazzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthammer View Post
    You should have been around when there was no suspension at all, and when most bikes had "cruiser" geometry (i.e., super long wheelbase, long chainstays (19-20"), short front end (20" TT), slack head/seat tube angles (69*/70*).....), and cantilevers were leading edge technology.
    i was. i was late to the game with a front fork, the first fork i ever had was an AMP on my trek 920.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dminor View Post
    ^^That just shows how little you really know about the new "high tech devices."
    I don't know... I feel somewhat familiar with the new devices. What am I missing?

  21. #21
    Still spinnin'..... Stealthammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertHurst View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dminor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertHurst View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dminor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertHurst View Post
    .....I remember watching Henrik Djernis (not French) win the world championship race at Vail on a rigid fork, when the entire rest of the field was using shocks. But the rest of the field didn't care, because they were having so much fun with their high-tech devices.
    It may be noted that there really was not much difference between a rigid and a 2"-travel hardtail in those days.

    I got a kick out of all the riders walking their bikes down the steep section. Would be so unnecessary today; and speeds carried through a lot of the other descending sections would be quite different....
    Maybe, but if the bikes and riders are less optimized for the long climb than they were in '94, rigid fork guy could win by an even wider margin.
    ^^That just shows how little you really know about the new "high tech devices."
    I don't know... I feel somewhat familiar with the new devices. What am I missing?

    He's probably referring to the lockout on modern suspension forks, but even with the lockout the rider with the modern suspension forks would be dragging an extra 2-3 pounds of dead weight, so my guess is that on the climb the rider with the rigid for would have the advantage, but on the full course the rider with the modern suspension forks would have the advantage.
    Last edited by Stealthammer; 04-07-12 at 05:19 AM.
    Just your average 'high-functioning' lunatic, capable of passing as 'normal' for short periods of time.....

    “The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.” - Albert Einstein

    “We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak.” - Albert Einstein

  22. #22
    ed
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    I had a bunch of vid's on VHS, but my friend (friend?) kept them. I don't even know where they are now.

    I do remember my one of my favorite sessions watching Shaums March shredding urban on a SanAndreas. Back then it was a burly bike. 5" bike with a dual crown and he was bunnyhopping over a freakin' gate. That was amazing stuff!

    That's when I started shredding urban on my Cannondale Super-V.

    I loved the early days.

  23. #23
    Retro on steroids Repack Rider's Avatar
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    I started riding off-road in the early '70s on a coaster brake klunker with no front brake. My handle "Repack Rider" is from the hill that destroyed coaster brakes and inspired some of us to build off-road bikes from the ground up.

    I hang around on a forum where guys build and praise old skool klunkers of the sort that I destroyed a dozen of before having a custom frame built in 1978. There is a reason why I quit riding that kind of bike so long ago.

    If there is anyone who appreciates new bikes with big travel and awesome brakes, I am that guy.
    It don't mean a feng if it ain't got that
    shui.

  24. #24
    Bad Company dminor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthammer View Post
    He's probably referring to the lockout on modern suspension forks, but even with the lockout the rider with the modern suspension forks would be dragging an extra 2-3 pounds of dead weight, so my guess is that on the climb the rider with the rigid for would have the advantage, but on the full course the rider with the modern suspension forks would have the advantage.
    I wasn't referring to lockouts at all; I don't believe in them. I'm a huge fan of active suspension in almost any situation that is actual mountain biking.

    What I was saying actually is that test after test on a loop course that is actual trails (not fireroads or gravel paths), the modern suspension bike will turn in faster lap times under the same rider. That goes for most moderate-to-rough singletrack climbs as well. Why? - - because an active suspension will keep the tire planted on the earth better and give superior traction.

    The only disadvantage has been in people's heads, especially old-skool hardtail die-hards, because they cannot wrap their heads past the perceived notion that some of their pedalling energy is being 'wasted' by the motion of the suspension.

  25. #25
    one less horse cryptid01's Avatar
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    lol @ the Henrik Djernis example.

    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    I do remember my one of my favorite sessions watching Shaums March shredding urban on a SanAndreas. Back then it was a burly bike. 5" bike with a dual crown and he was bunnyhopping over a freakin' gate. That was amazing stuff!
    Plush. I've still got a copy. Along with Eddie Roman's Hammertime, that movie influenced my riding more than anything except attending WC DH races.


    Quote Originally Posted by Repack Rider View Post
    If there is anyone who appreciates new bikes with big travel and awesome brakes, I am that guy.
    Thread closed.

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