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Old 04-23-12, 08:11 AM   #1
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BuzzKill...

1. I posted a thread on another site in a regional forum about my local trail. People got all pissed off at me. Apparently, the locals want to keep it on the DL and my thread was bringing exposure to it. I'm just excited to be able to have a fun trail close by with "Scrublover'esque" terrain to play on. I spoke with one of the original builders and he said that their vision (10-15yrs ago) was to have a single main trail that was really easy and enjoyable for noobs with some hard tech-offshoots. They have succeeded in that. My opinion is that a trail that's beaten down by tires is going to be faster and more fun with more flow. The more, the merrier. Since I started riding that trail last year, I've seen a total of 6 people riding on it. I got the thread deleted and I'm keeping my mouth shut, but IMO...it's a crime.



2. I am now a legit member of the volunteer parks and rec trail maint. crew. There are only a couple of people that come out there to keep it cleaned up and trimmed down. I didn't know about it last spring b/c it was so overgrown. I'm stoked to help and keep it trimmed. I was informed by one of the locals that I have no priveledges to build or reroute. All I can do is trim and prune. Parks and rec said I have complete autonomy. I'm confused. I don't necessarily want to turn it into BC, but some of the tech offshoots are begging for a connector drop or small berm to maintain some beautiful flow. Frustrating.



3. I feel bad. My big roll-in boulder that I've been riding is alot of fun...all I did was clean up the approach to it so it's rideable. One of the local bike shop workers said that a noob saw it, tried it, broke his bike, broke his face. I feel somewhat responsible...though it's too bad common sense can't prevail.






I'm just ranting about people's attitudes, I guess. I understand that locals are going to be protective...though I never see them out there and they don't take any initiative to keep it trimmed. I know that the XCweenies are not going to want Parker-riding, Mountain Dew-drinking 35 y.o. kids out there having a good time on their XC loop. I know that people will make poor choices and ride outside their abilities and it's not going to be my fault.

Rant over.
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Old 04-23-12, 10:18 AM   #2
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After admitting to using another site, you'll be lucky if you don't get the cold shoulder here. As a moderator, no less...
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Old 04-23-12, 10:39 AM   #3
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Ab out Point #3, I hold riders like you and Air Doug responsible for the injuries I sustained last year. Sheesh, I'm impressionable and subject to peer pressure. I just want to be one of the boys and like ZephChick for that matter. NOT, glad to know that you care, but we all know that riding has a downside if you get outside you skill set. Sorry about the guys face. They heal.

Glad to hear that you are part of trail maintenance. I am trying some of that myself. Some local riders are building jumps in the middle of county built shared use trails. The dog walkers are loading the jumps up with dog poop. So me and a couple guys are trying to bust up the jumps. There are also some new trails being built in the boonies where its only bikes. I found where they stashed some tools and tried some improving myself. We're gonna have another Mecca soon. No Bootleg, but good stuff.

As for the Haters, you got a middle finger don't ya?
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Old 04-23-12, 10:48 AM   #4
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After admitting to using another site, you'll be lucky if you don't get the cold shoulder here. As a moderator, no less...
Ya, don't say RideMonkey around here. Admins don't wanna hear RideMonkey. You'll not read me saying RideMonkey

Ed, you're in that unenviable catch-22 position on trails like that. With ad hoc bulding like that there will always be those who want to keep the 'secret' trails secret. Part of it is a survival instinct: the more that know about a trail the more risk of scrutiny from the land manager/owner and the chance the trail(s)/features could get scuttled. But if it's on public land accessible to all, it's not really 'secret' anyway or anyone's private domain; and I agree with you: the more the merrier to wear it in and mature the lines.

Point 2 is another fine line: when does clean-up and trimming become undue "sanitizing?" There are always two schools of thought in those situations. There are builders and riders who welcome connectors and flow and then there are those who want the disjointed or sketchy-tech and want a trail built that way to remain that way. And when is taming something truly dangerous sanitizing and when is it limiting liability exposure? I was looking at a new jump trail at Beacon the other day that had an old, downed log laying through the gap jump - - that still had sharp branch-stubs sticking up out of it like punji sticks - - and thought to myself "First person who comes up short/cases that is liable to impale themselves. Yeah it looks cool and intimmidating but, doggone, I'd have trimmed off those snags." But I'm not part of the club that built it and it's not really my call. I just probably won't ever hit that double with it looking like that.

Point 3: In an ideal world, there'd be signage and trail markers and cautions posted for super-technical features to alert especially the noobs that they better check something out before they hit it. But, hey, not everywhere is Whistler with budgets for that kind of thing. And regardless you can't protect the stupid from themselves anyway. Just drives home the point that nobody should roll into a next section or trail blind. Get off and walk ahead and scope it out first if you have to. Know what you're getting into.
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Old 04-23-12, 10:51 AM   #5
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Ab out Point #3, I hold riders like you and Air Doug responsible for the injuries I sustained last year. Sheesh, I'm impressionable and subject to peer pressure. I just want to be one of the boys and like ZephChick for that matter. NOT, glad to know that you care, but we all know that riding has a downside if you get outside you skill set. Sorry about the guys face. They heal.
ZephChick isn't that good and continually rides with people better than her and tries things over her skill level, and then wonders why she ends up on the ground more often than anyone else. However, this is ZephChick's fault and she holds herself responsible, not her friends, even if they stand around laughing at her.
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Old 04-23-12, 03:14 PM   #6
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I am now a legit member of the volunteer parks and rec trail maint. crew.
Well done.

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Frustrating.
Yep. Also rewarding.
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Old 04-23-12, 03:29 PM   #7
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Good for you for being an official volunteer. I asked about it at my two closest & most frequented trails, but as it turns out they're both either privately owned &/or maintained by paid employees. I'd still like to help out if I could, if for nothing else then just to recommend some more interesting features.

As for the guy who busted his face, completely his fault. We can't blame the gov't for causing lethal car accidents just because they took the initiative to create freeways, can we? All the same, I hope he's okay.
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Old 04-23-12, 05:18 PM   #8
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If you're talking about building new things on an existing line, I do kind of think you should leave it be since the trail has been established there for a long time. If you're talking about building new off-shoots with cool stuff that connects back to the existing trail, build away. No one has a right to ***** at you if they aren't out there maintaining the trail too. And if they are out there maintaining, work together and add to the trail in ways that work for everyone. As long as you're not messing up their current stuff, what's the big deal? We've got a couple of big gap jumps at my local trail. Unfortunately there aren't any jumps close to the size to work up to hitting the big ones. It sucks, and I wish I could go out there and put some dirt in the middle so that I could safely practice jumping them, but I'm not the one that takes care of that trail, so too bad for me. If you're taking care of it, add whatever you want.
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Old 04-23-12, 05:53 PM   #9
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We've got a couple of big gap jumps at my local trail. Unfortunately there aren't any jumps close to the size to work up to hitting the big ones. It sucks, and I wish I could go out there and put some dirt in the middle so that I could safely practice jumping them, but I'm not the one that takes care of that trail, so too bad for me. If you're taking care of it, add whatever you want.
Why do you complain and wish you could modify their jumps? Grab a shovel, find an out of the way spot with good dirt, and build whatever size you feel comfortable with. Or build a small launch ramp and take it somewhere with a good run in and a nice smooth transition for a lander. Once you get comfortable, move it back. Take some initiative. Think like a twelve year old.
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Old 04-23-12, 06:11 PM   #10
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Ed-

The more that people ride it, the more support it will have. Good on ya for taking the time, interest, energy, and enthusiasm to do something good for all. F*** those who consider it theirs, wanna keep it a secret.

Who owns and/or manages the land? I would totally get on board with THEM, and work to try and develop the vision which you have started.
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Old 04-23-12, 06:46 PM   #11
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Why do you complain and wish you could modify their jumps? Grab a shovel, find an out of the way spot with good dirt, and build whatever size you feel comfortable with. Or build a small launch ramp and take it somewhere with a good run in and a nice smooth transition for a lander. Once you get comfortable, move it back. Take some initiative. Think like a twelve year old.
I don't think I can. The two trails near me are on city land and are maintained by the same local group that has built connections with those city park systems(or something like that). They have signs posted about legal trouble or something if you change anything out there. Those last two sentences in particular, though, do make me feel like a moron for not just finding myself some vacant land somewhere and heading out with a shovel. That's exactly what I would have done when I was twelve. Why the hell don't I think like that anymore? Then I just have to hope I don't break something serious while I'm out there since I'd be alone.
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Old 04-23-12, 07:12 PM   #12
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Then I just have to hope I don't break something serious while I'm out there since I'd be alone.
You're doing it again!
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Old 04-23-12, 07:55 PM   #13
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Old 04-23-12, 09:17 PM   #14
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You're doing it again!
Well in all fairness, that concern comes from having done so when I was younger. Well, having hurt myself badly, anyway, not a serious break that prevented me from getting home. I would definitely ruin the interior of my car with blood if it happened today. I try to keep things pretty tame if there isn't at least another biker out riding the trails so that at least if something does happen, the other person might come along on their next lap.
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Old 04-23-12, 09:52 PM   #15
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Its not like a trail is a favorite fishing hole or something. I've cut kids outta the will for taking friends to a good fishing hole. Its about priorities.
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Old 04-23-12, 10:51 PM   #16
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It's owned by the county and managed loosley by parks and rec. I'm going to lay low for a while, put in some hard hours keeping it what it is, earn rep with the grumpy locals. If I'm going to live here for "years"...I don't want to risk this place by swooping in and causing upheaval. I'll try to be patient and subtle for now. I still have some visions that will be possible not too far off. I know the trails, but I also wan't to be that guy who knows every inch of what's there before he goes adding inches.
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Old 04-24-12, 09:33 AM   #17
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I call this the "Pull up the ladder" mentality!We are in the life boat (we know where the trail is), so pull that ladder up so nobody else can get in (we know about the trail, and therefore, nobody else needs to know about it). Pft. What ever. Now, as for trail modification, that is something entirely different.

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Old 04-24-12, 10:31 PM   #18
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2. I am now a legit member of the volunteer parks and rec trail maint. crew. There are only a couple of people that come out there to keep it cleaned up and trimmed down. I didn't know about it last spring b/c it was so overgrown. I'm stoked to help and keep it trimmed. I was informed by one of the locals that I have no priveledges to build or reroute. All I can do is trim and prune. Parks and rec said I have complete autonomy. I'm confused. I don't necessarily want to turn it into BC, but some of the tech offshoots are begging for a connector drop or small berm to maintain some beautiful flow. Frustrating.



3. I feel bad. My big roll-in boulder that I've been riding is alot of fun...all I did was clean up the approach to it so it's rideable. One of the local bike shop workers said that a noob saw it, tried it, broke his bike, broke his face. I feel somewhat responsible...though it's too bad common sense can't prevail.
1: Congrats, be ready to put in more time tending to that than riding it at times. Parks and rec's word has more weight to it than a local's does.

2: Don't feel bad, people are stupid in nature when it comes to stuff they think that they can handle no problem.

3: Just be glad that you don't do work on a pumptrack that also has dirt jumps and soon to be completed 2 flow lines. Anyone new to it has to earn their stripes before they get on the dirt jumps.
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Old 04-24-12, 11:20 PM   #19
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The dudes that cleaned my clock are two of the trail builders. They showed me their "vision" of what they want to do out there. They are gnarcore AM dudes and I can't wait to help them out. It's all coming together for the best.
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Old 04-24-12, 11:35 PM   #20
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Listen to what they say, they should be behind the rock roller.

Put in enough time and maybe they will let you have your own little section of that view. You will find that you will be minding the weather a tad bit more.

A helpful hint, if there is rain in the forecast, plan on building that day instead. It's much easier to build/shape stuff when the ground is damp.
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