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Old 11-08-12, 03:26 PM   #1
Papa Wheelie
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Chance for SRAM or Shimano to bring the "XX1" theory to the 9 or 10 speed cassette?

I have a Stumpjumper EVO R, which is set up on the 1x10 drivetrain. I love it, and it gets me up (most) all the hills around Boise. Reading my latest copy of MBA, they were saying that the gold, silver and bronze XC racers in the past Olympics all used the SRAM XX1 drivetrain.

Basically, (from what I know), that is essentially a 1x10 setup (11-36 cassette) that has an 11th gear shoe-horned onto the cassette that is super-big. Something like a 44 or so. That allows them to crawl up that super-steep hill that the 1x10 typically has problems with.

I am NOT going to go out and buy a new cassette, rear derailleur and shifter to get that set-up. I am just too close to it already, but I cannot help but wonder if there is a possibility that the manufacturers will recognize the market that just might be there to start making 9 or 10 speed cassettes that incorporate the "xx1" theory?

What would be the downfall to SRAM or Shimano building up a cassette that dumps the smallest cog (11), and replaces it (obviously on the other side) with a much bigger cog than the 36 that is typically there. Maybe a 40, or 42 or something?

Is this something that *MIGHT* be coming down the turn-pike? Or no, there is a simple reason that it will not.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

(I ask this question because I was walking down the sidewalk yesterday, and saw a mid 90's mtn bike with an 8 speed cassette, but the biggest cog in it was a 34, and the next size down was probably a 29 or so. The size jump was simliar to what I am seeing with the xx1 system, so it kinda got my mind going....)


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Old 11-08-12, 06:26 PM   #2
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Not really all that necessary is it?. I've been on 1x9 for a long time and had no issues for the most part. That's 32 front and 11-34 cassette.

If you're racing to put food on the table, I can see a minor need for it I guess...but the enthusiast level rider? Probably not.
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Old 11-08-12, 06:47 PM   #3
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^^ Ya but you don't have hills . . . and by that I mean HILLZ. I love 1x setups but an 11-34 still leaves me hiking occassionally - - and spinning out at the top end with a 32 front. An 11-38 (or even 11-40) would allow me to run a more reasonable 36 front for descents and still give me a lower final ratio than 32/34 for climbs.
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Old 11-08-12, 07:38 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Papa Wheelie View Post

(I ask this question because I was walking down the sidewalk yesterday, and saw a mid 90's mtn bike with an 8 speed cassette, but the biggest cog in it was a 34, and the next size down was probably a 29 or so. The size jump was simliar to what I am seeing with the xx1 system, so it kinda got my mind going....)


Shimano still makes 7 speed "Mega Range" freewheels that most low end Walmart type mtb's still come with. We like to call that big cog you see a "bail out" gear. What you saw was probably a 13-15-17-19-21-24-34
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Old 11-08-12, 08:24 PM   #5
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^^ Ya but you don't have hills . . . and by that I mean HILLZ. I love 1x setups but an 11-34 still leaves me hiking occassionally - - and spinning out at the top end with a 32 front. An 11-38 (or even 11-40) would allow me to run a more reasonable 36 front for descents and still give me a lower final ratio than 32/34 for climbs.
In my previous post, you will see that I said "I can see a 'Minor' need" for it. Just so happens I may have been talking about a Minor. Hahaha! I'm a genius psychic.
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Old 11-09-12, 09:31 AM   #6
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My bike is currently set up with a 34 chain ring, 11-36 cassette. I can get up (quickly) about 90% of all the hills around here, but there are a COUPLE (Hard Guy; Trail of Tears; Adalpe Pass to the Ridge Road, ect) that have you riding up about 3,000 feet of elevation gain over the course of about 5 or 6 miles. Sometimes you can run into a pitch that is 20-25% gradient, and it can twist me into the ground.

Walk of shame.....


But I love the 1x10, works great for 90% of the riding that I do. But I cannot help but think that what I am missing with the 1x in climbing could be made up with that mondo inner cog that the XX1 system is running.

I'd give up a little speed on the flat and downhill (everybody is fast going down) to get that extra ability to beat them up the hill.

THAT is where the men get seperated from the boys in our group. D:
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Old 11-09-12, 09:37 AM   #7
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Basically, (from what I know), that is essentially a 1x10 setup (11-36 cassette) that has an 11th gear shoe-horned onto the cassette that is super-big.
No, it is 10-42T.
And that small first cog requires a special freehub.
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Old 11-09-12, 10:39 AM   #8
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But I love the 1x10, works great for 90% of the riding that I do. But I cannot help but think that what I am missing with the 1x in climbing could be made up with that mondo inner cog that the XX1 system is running.
There is the old tried-and-true alternative - - just requires you to stop, grab your chain and drop it down for the big grind. The rest of the time it's an inner guide plate for secure 1x-ing:


http://www.envygear.com/products/doublee2.html
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Old 11-09-12, 10:53 AM   #9
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PW, I would just switch to a 2x10.

A few aftermarket companies actually *do* make super-huge 9 speed cassettes. I've seen at least 11-40. I don't know that I've seen a 10 speed cassette with that range.

But if you use an online gear calculator, you'll see that 11-40 won't help you anywhere near as much as using a double. If you need a bashguard and/or chain guide, you can get those for double cranks no problem... anything as basic as a BBG shield to a MRP bash guide. (I've been eyeing the SRAM-branded MRP for a while now.) I would get a 24/38 crankset, in fact that's what I should be have bought instead of 26/39, because I can't get any smaller rings (for my particular BCD), but with 24/38 you can use smaller big rings, and both larger and smaller small rings.

Of course, this won't be cheap. If you're on a short cage RD now, you'll need at least medium and if you want the 11-36 cassette you might even need a long cage. But the good news is that shimano's shadow plus and sram's type 2 rear derailleurs are pretty nifty the way they mitigate nearly all chain slap.
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Old 11-09-12, 10:56 AM   #10
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Regarding thread title: my vote is no.

Although SRAM is generally quite good about trickling down technology, if/when you eventually see an XX1 super wide ratio cassette on a lower group, I bet it's still going to be 11 speed and I am positive it won't be 9 speed.
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Old 11-09-12, 11:26 AM   #11
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To the OP, if you want to run a 42t cog in the back, even on a 10spd cassette, you'd need a new derailleur. Any derailleur other than the XX1 is not going to like the big cog. Even if you replace the b-tension screw with something much longer, SRAM changed a few things to eliminate chain slap with their new one.

2x10 is your friend.
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Old 11-09-12, 03:57 PM   #12
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Thank you.

I KNEW there would be some clear and simple reasons why this would not work. The rear derailleur not being able to accept that big ol' cog makes perfect sense.

Yes, 2x10 would get me where I am thinking I need to be. But so will dropping 5 more lbs, and simply working harder.

I'll get up those big slogs one day or another......
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