Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Mountain Biking Mountain biking is one of the fastest growing sports in the world. Check out this forum to discuss the latest tips, tricks, gear and equipment in the world of mountain biking.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-13-12, 12:18 PM   #1
Morbo
I Will Destroy You!
Thread Starter
 
Morbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New New York
Bikes: Litespeed hardtrail, Cannondale Road, '78 Motobecane Grand Trouring
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Advice Sought- Have an old frame with "old" geometry....options

So, I've got an old frame, but I really like it. It's a Litespeed (titanium) hard-tail. Most of the components are high-end. I really like the bomb-proof nature of a titanium hard-tail frame. BUT.....here's my problem- the head-tube angle is 71.5 (like I said, old school) and the bike was originally intended to use a 80mm travel fork. Well, I'm running 100mm now...and have no problems. In fact, I used to run 140mm Fox and that didn't seem to be much problem either. The reason that I'm even bothering with this is because I recently went to Utah and did some fairly technical riding with a buddy. The really steep and rocky descents....to put it mildly....scared the ($(@# out of me !! I felt like the bike wanted to endo too often. I could feel the back-end wanting to come up a bunch of times (and it did once). Meanwhile, my buddies were bombing right through those spots with their modern head-tube angles and 140mm or 160mm travel forks, seemingly without a thought or concern.

So.....I'm going back and forth in terms of buying a new (modern) FS frame and 140mm travel fork (using all the rest of my components to build it up). But, in that case I'm now riding aluminum (which is not my preference) and also FS....when really, I like a hard tail. Option #2 would be to buy a new titanium frame with a slacker head-tube angle....but that's going to set me back nearly $2,000, and then I'd still need to drop another $600 on a fork with longer travel. Option #3 is to simply stay with this frame and put a fork with dual settings (140 / 110). That would work just fine....but I'd still have that darn 71.5 degree angle (though the taller fork would change that somewhat).

Maybe I'm over-thinking it. Perhaps someone can help me out on this one?
Morbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-12, 01:05 PM   #2
LesterOfPuppets
cowboy, steel horse, etc
 
LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rock Springs, WY
Bikes: My War
Posts: 26,861
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
140mm fork and 2.5" front tire, 1.95 rear tire might get you to 68 deg HTA. Or maybe go nuts and 650b front end. If tou really love the frame.
LesterOfPuppets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-12, 01:54 PM   #3
mystolenbikes
Senior Member
 
mystolenbikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock
Posts: 622
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My only question is why don't you want an aluminum frame?
mystolenbikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-12, 02:09 PM   #4
Morbo
I Will Destroy You!
Thread Starter
 
Morbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New New York
Bikes: Litespeed hardtrail, Cannondale Road, '78 Motobecane Grand Trouring
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystolenbikes View Post
My only question is why don't you want an aluminum frame?
It's not really that I don't like Aluminum....it just that I prefer Titanium. When compared to Ti, aluminum very weak (no fatigue cycle strength) and is harsh riding (rigid). Bottom line is that Ti is bomb proof. Aluminum is not.
Morbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-12, 02:14 PM   #5
LesterOfPuppets
cowboy, steel horse, etc
 
LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rock Springs, WY
Bikes: My War
Posts: 26,861
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
Bullet proof, not bomb proof

LesterOfPuppets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-12, 07:59 PM   #6
corvuscorvax
Gone.
 
Join Date: May 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morbo View Post
So, I've got an old frame, but I really like it. It's a Litespeed (titanium) hard-tail. Most of the components are high-end. I really like the bomb-proof nature of a titanium hard-tail frame. BUT.....here's my problem- the head-tube angle is 71.5 (like I said, old school) and the bike was originally intended to use a 80mm travel fork. Well, I'm running 100mm now...and have no problems. In fact, I used to run 140mm Fox and that didn't seem to be much problem either. The reason that I'm even bothering with this is because I recently went to Utah and did some fairly technical riding with a buddy. The really steep and rocky descents....to put it mildly....scared the ($(@# out of me !! I felt like the bike wanted to endo too often. I could feel the back-end wanting to come up a bunch of times (and it did once). Meanwhile, my buddies were bombing right through those spots with their modern head-tube angles and 140mm or 160mm travel forks, seemingly without a thought or concern.
Last I checked, "modern" XC race frames (the few that are still made in 26") still have head tube angles around 71. Sounds like you have an XC race frame and wish it were an all-mountain frame. You are never going to make an XC frame into an all-mountain frame. It's not about "modern": the laws of physics didn't change in 2008, and your frame still handles exactly the way it always did. Either you like it, or you don't. It's like sleeping with a Slovak girl and wishing she were Ethiopian: no amount of dressing her up is going to do it. The nice thing with bikes is you can have two.

Last edited by corvuscorvax; 11-13-12 at 08:11 PM.
corvuscorvax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-12, 08:24 PM   #7
Morbo
I Will Destroy You!
Thread Starter
 
Morbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New New York
Bikes: Litespeed hardtrail, Cannondale Road, '78 Motobecane Grand Trouring
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by corvuscorvax View Post
Last I checked, "modern" XC race frames (the few that are still made in 26") still have head tube angles around 71. Sounds like you have an XC race frame and wish it were an all-mountain frame. You are never going to make an XC frame into an all-mountain frame. It's not about "modern": the laws of physics didn't change in 2008, and your frame still handles exactly the way it always did. Either you like it, or you don't. It's like sleeping with a Slovak girl and wishing she were Ethiopian: no amount of dressing her up is going to do it. The nice thing with bikes is you can have two.
Corvuscovax- yes, that's absolutely true. I guess I'm really am trying to make an XC racer into a AM rig. We know that really can't be done, at least not ideally. So, I think what I'm really wondering is if it's possible to take this frame, and make it into a bike that is at least CAPABLE to handle the occasional downhill rides (such as chutes/ladders in Fruita, Gooseberry et al near Zion, etc....you know the types, downhill runs with some steep drop-off sections). The feeling of "oh crap, if I go down that, there's a good chance I'll endo"....really sucks.

So, thoughts on going 120mm (or even 140mm) on the old frame and still being able to climb....or just screw it and buy a bike or frame with the proper geometry for AM riding. ?? Just buying a new shock is quick, easy and cheaper...but perhaps not worth it in the longer run? Just looking for an opinion. Lynskey has a really nice HT titanium frame they'll build with a 68.5 degree....but that move will cost me about $2,500.

Last edited by Morbo; 11-13-12 at 08:30 PM.
Morbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-12, 09:58 PM   #8
ColinL
Two-Wheeled Aficionado
 
ColinL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Wichita
Bikes: Santa Cruz Blur TR, Cannondale Quick CX dropbar conversion & others
Posts: 4,905
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Get over the titanium and buy an aluminum or carbon all-mountain bike. You should be able to rent or demo a bike and take it to a local trail to understand what you're missing and would get from a long travel FS bike.

It would be expensive and pointless to buy another titanium hardtail. As noted above, there's nothing wrong with your current bike for XC.
ColinL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-12, 03:26 PM   #9
skoda2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ocala, Florida
Bikes: 74 Romic, 83 Basso, Lotto, 88 Condor, Prestige MTB, 12 Soma, Groove
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
+1 on that, just put 80mm travel forks back on for the proper geometry, and more importantly you are over stressing the frame with the longer travel forks!!!! I love old school hardtails, just not for extreme downhill, I suspect that's why your Litespeed is called Cross Country.
skoda2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-12, 04:12 PM   #10
scrublover
Te mortuo heres tibi sim?
 
scrublover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: East coast
Bikes: hardtail, squishy, fixed roadie, fixed crosser
Posts: 3,486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah...um, not really meant for that. It'll whack out the geometry and handling, and WILL eventually cause problems such as your HT/TT/DT area failing. That is a lot more stress (140mm fork) on that frame than ever intended. Not to mention raising the BB height enough to likely make it corner like crap at speed.

Keep you bike as is, and if you've got the budget (sounds as if you do) you can spring for 2-3K on a nice full suspension ride, or even nicer burly hardtail.

When you're going up to bigger tires and more suspension, the damping quality of the frame material matters less and less, and becomes less noticeable when combined with all the other variables and factors. Alu for FS bikes, and lots of very nice steel options for burly hardtails.

The options in that price range for good riding/handling/durable 5-6" travel trail bikes is seriously astounding. Tons of bikes, depending on whether you want to shop local, order online, build your own from the frame up, whatever.
scrublover is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:57 PM.