Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    I Will Destroy You! Morbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New New York
    My Bikes
    Litespeed hardtrail, Cannondale Road, '78 Motobecane Grand Trouring
    Posts
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Advice Sought- Have an old frame with "old" geometry....options

    So, I've got an old frame, but I really like it. It's a Litespeed (titanium) hard-tail. Most of the components are high-end. I really like the bomb-proof nature of a titanium hard-tail frame. BUT.....here's my problem- the head-tube angle is 71.5 (like I said, old school) and the bike was originally intended to use a 80mm travel fork. Well, I'm running 100mm now...and have no problems. In fact, I used to run 140mm Fox and that didn't seem to be much problem either. The reason that I'm even bothering with this is because I recently went to Utah and did some fairly technical riding with a buddy. The really steep and rocky descents....to put it mildly....scared the ($(@# out of me !! I felt like the bike wanted to endo too often. I could feel the back-end wanting to come up a bunch of times (and it did once). Meanwhile, my buddies were bombing right through those spots with their modern head-tube angles and 140mm or 160mm travel forks, seemingly without a thought or concern.

    So.....I'm going back and forth in terms of buying a new (modern) FS frame and 140mm travel fork (using all the rest of my components to build it up). But, in that case I'm now riding aluminum (which is not my preference) and also FS....when really, I like a hard tail. Option #2 would be to buy a new titanium frame with a slacker head-tube angle....but that's going to set me back nearly $2,000, and then I'd still need to drop another $600 on a fork with longer travel. Option #3 is to simply stay with this frame and put a fork with dual settings (140 / 110). That would work just fine....but I'd still have that darn 71.5 degree angle (though the taller fork would change that somewhat).

    Maybe I'm over-thinking it. Perhaps someone can help me out on this one?

  2. #2
    Senior Member LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, USA
    My Bikes
    My War
    Posts
    18,419
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    140mm fork and 2.5" front tire, 1.95 rear tire might get you to 68 deg HTA. Or maybe go nuts and 650b front end. If tou really love the frame.
    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Olde Western Auto Cruiser.

  3. #3
    Senior Member mystolenbikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles
    My Bikes
    Specialized Hardrock
    Posts
    622
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My only question is why don't you want an aluminum frame?

  4. #4
    I Will Destroy You! Morbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New New York
    My Bikes
    Litespeed hardtrail, Cannondale Road, '78 Motobecane Grand Trouring
    Posts
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mystolenbikes View Post
    My only question is why don't you want an aluminum frame?
    It's not really that I don't like Aluminum....it just that I prefer Titanium. When compared to Ti, aluminum very weak (no fatigue cycle strength) and is harsh riding (rigid). Bottom line is that Ti is bomb proof. Aluminum is not.

  5. #5
    Senior Member LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, USA
    My Bikes
    My War
    Posts
    18,419
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    Bullet proof, not bomb proof

    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Olde Western Auto Cruiser.

  6. #6
    Gone.
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    509
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Morbo View Post
    So, I've got an old frame, but I really like it. It's a Litespeed (titanium) hard-tail. Most of the components are high-end. I really like the bomb-proof nature of a titanium hard-tail frame. BUT.....here's my problem- the head-tube angle is 71.5 (like I said, old school) and the bike was originally intended to use a 80mm travel fork. Well, I'm running 100mm now...and have no problems. In fact, I used to run 140mm Fox and that didn't seem to be much problem either. The reason that I'm even bothering with this is because I recently went to Utah and did some fairly technical riding with a buddy. The really steep and rocky descents....to put it mildly....scared the ($(@# out of me !! I felt like the bike wanted to endo too often. I could feel the back-end wanting to come up a bunch of times (and it did once). Meanwhile, my buddies were bombing right through those spots with their modern head-tube angles and 140mm or 160mm travel forks, seemingly without a thought or concern.
    Last I checked, "modern" XC race frames (the few that are still made in 26") still have head tube angles around 71. Sounds like you have an XC race frame and wish it were an all-mountain frame. You are never going to make an XC frame into an all-mountain frame. It's not about "modern": the laws of physics didn't change in 2008, and your frame still handles exactly the way it always did. Either you like it, or you don't. It's like sleeping with a Slovak girl and wishing she were Ethiopian: no amount of dressing her up is going to do it. The nice thing with bikes is you can have two.
    Last edited by corvuscorvax; 11-13-12 at 07:11 PM.
    My speculation was that it applies to some degree in cycling, and I used the previous proof as my reasoning, but I can't prove how exactly it applies to it and to what degree. That, I have admitted, is speculation based on reasoning, but not at this point provable.

  7. #7
    I Will Destroy You! Morbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New New York
    My Bikes
    Litespeed hardtrail, Cannondale Road, '78 Motobecane Grand Trouring
    Posts
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by corvuscorvax View Post
    Last I checked, "modern" XC race frames (the few that are still made in 26") still have head tube angles around 71. Sounds like you have an XC race frame and wish it were an all-mountain frame. You are never going to make an XC frame into an all-mountain frame. It's not about "modern": the laws of physics didn't change in 2008, and your frame still handles exactly the way it always did. Either you like it, or you don't. It's like sleeping with a Slovak girl and wishing she were Ethiopian: no amount of dressing her up is going to do it. The nice thing with bikes is you can have two.
    Corvuscovax- yes, that's absolutely true. I guess I'm really am trying to make an XC racer into a AM rig. We know that really can't be done, at least not ideally. So, I think what I'm really wondering is if it's possible to take this frame, and make it into a bike that is at least CAPABLE to handle the occasional downhill rides (such as chutes/ladders in Fruita, Gooseberry et al near Zion, etc....you know the types, downhill runs with some steep drop-off sections). The feeling of "oh crap, if I go down that, there's a good chance I'll endo"....really sucks.

    So, thoughts on going 120mm (or even 140mm) on the old frame and still being able to climb....or just screw it and buy a bike or frame with the proper geometry for AM riding. ?? Just buying a new shock is quick, easy and cheaper...but perhaps not worth it in the longer run? Just looking for an opinion. Lynskey has a really nice HT titanium frame they'll build with a 68.5 degree....but that move will cost me about $2,500.
    Last edited by Morbo; 11-13-12 at 07:30 PM.

  8. #8
    Two-Wheeled Aficionado ColinL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Wichita
    My Bikes
    Santa Cruz Blur, CX bike, roadie, & others
    Posts
    4,495
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Get over the titanium and buy an aluminum or carbon all-mountain bike. You should be able to rent or demo a bike and take it to a local trail to understand what you're missing and would get from a long travel FS bike.

    It would be expensive and pointless to buy another titanium hardtail. As noted above, there's nothing wrong with your current bike for XC.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Ocala, Florida
    My Bikes
    74 Romic, 83 Basso, Lotto, 88 Condor, Prestige MTB, 12 Soma, Groove
    Posts
    90
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    +1 on that, just put 80mm travel forks back on for the proper geometry, and more importantly you are over stressing the frame with the longer travel forks!!!! I love old school hardtails, just not for extreme downhill, I suspect that's why your Litespeed is called Cross Country.

  10. #10
    Te mortuo heres tibi sim? scrublover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    East coast
    My Bikes
    hardtail, squishy, fixed roadie, fixed crosser
    Posts
    3,484
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yeah...um, not really meant for that. It'll whack out the geometry and handling, and WILL eventually cause problems such as your HT/TT/DT area failing. That is a lot more stress (140mm fork) on that frame than ever intended. Not to mention raising the BB height enough to likely make it corner like crap at speed.

    Keep you bike as is, and if you've got the budget (sounds as if you do) you can spring for 2-3K on a nice full suspension ride, or even nicer burly hardtail.

    When you're going up to bigger tires and more suspension, the damping quality of the frame material matters less and less, and becomes less noticeable when combined with all the other variables and factors. Alu for FS bikes, and lots of very nice steel options for burly hardtails.

    The options in that price range for good riding/handling/durable 5-6" travel trail bikes is seriously astounding. Tons of bikes, depending on whether you want to shop local, order online, build your own from the frame up, whatever.
    I believe the clouds in my coffee more than the weatherman on t.v.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •