Originally Posted by Zephyr11
(Post 15333884)
Agreed there...the Hardrock was a more than competent bike. For a while though, the "XC" version was the Hardrock XC, since the Hardrock itself was overbuilt (could still be used for XC though, obviously). Those overbuilt Hardrocks were pretty frickin' cool though...
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Shimano goes to great length in their dealer catalogues to describe exactly what their components are designed to handle, and each category is matched against a description of the driving terrain for that category and the bike style suitable.
XC Race Track: Circuit criterium, Point to point, Olympic competition Bike: Superlight hardtail, good 4-inch dual suspension for rough and marathon style Cross country/marathon Track: Hilly terrain, Back country areas Bike: Hardtail, light weight 4 to 5-inch dual suspension. Trail Track: Stepping bump, Single track, Mountain path Bike: Moderate 5 to 6-inch dual suspension with good pedaling efficiency. All mountain/Enduro Track: Rugged relief, mountain challenge, long and winding route Bike: Stable 6 to 7-inch dual suspension with advanced control, Stiff axle system for frame rigidity. Free Ride Track: Observed trial stair. Drop offs and big air jumps. Bike: Durable 7 to 8-in suspension for big drops and gravity terrain. Down Hill Track: Down hill race course, Steep and rocky sections Bike: Aggressive 8-inch plus dual suspension for perfect bike control. Trekking Track: On-road, Smooth off-road. Bike: Cross, Trekking, Comfort Casual MTB Track: Smooth off-road Bike: Short travel suspension, Non-suspendion. City Track: City paved road Bike: MTB look alike Alivio, Acera and altus are only specced against ONE of those classifications - casual MTB. And 'smooth off-road' terrain they've also stated you can tackle with a comfort bike or trekking bike. In fact they also print a warning: Don't use a bike equipped with casual MTB/City components on agressive off-road trails. Alivio, Acera and Altus components are not developed for serious MTB riding. and there is a clear distinction with higher end components such as Deore and Saint groups in terms of purpose of use. Just my opinion and another view on things. |
Originally Posted by Burton
(Post 15335066)
So its possible that Shimano doesn't have a clue what they're designing, but I think its far more likely that some cyclists are simply over-rating their ability as mountain bikers and simply aren't pushing their equipment anywhere near the design limits - and that lots of reasonable riders could do those same 'trails' on comfort bikes and hybrids. There are a few riders that I know that deliberately use Alivio for serious mtb biking - but they go through three or four rear mechs a season and would rather do that than put out the money for a Saint rear mech. Just my opinion and another view on things. |
Originally Posted by rebel1916
(Post 15335131)
Oh, I am definitely a scrub, and I definitely prefer buff to tech. All I am saying is I have hundreds of hours of reliable use, including a few races, on what (according to bikepedia) is an 11 year old bike with an acera drivetrain.
ACERA is an MTB-style component group that offers an 8-speed drivetrain. ACERA delivers the responsive feeling of a serious mountain bike to casual riders and entry-level cyclists. |
i run 105 on the DH bike
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../edit-0540.jpg & DA on the 4X http://www.pbase.com/robertseth/imag...2/original.jpg its definitely possible and in some cases beneficial to cross those marketing lines the alivio line was re-classified by shimano at one point iirc |
Originally Posted by Burton
(Post 15335429)
I just swapped out an Alivio (9-speed) drivetrain for a RaceFace /Hone setup because I plan on some rough riding myself and don't want RD issues.
i recently swapped to a 22-33-bash raceface ride. im using an alivio mega 9 fd and it seems that its just not setting up right with a double chainring crankset. heres a pic, thats as close as i can get the derailleur without it sitting directly on the chainstay. is there such thing as triple specific derailleurs? is this just the way its going to look and i should be fine or do i need to go to a Hone or something else. it just doesnt look right.... http://i.imgur.com/3YioCmk.jpg?1 |
Originally Posted by Burton
(Post 15335429)
So lets not argue about what you did in the past - whatever you bought and used 11years ago isn't offered on the market today. I'd think a current build should reflect whats currently available. This is how Shimano currently describes the Acera line:
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Originally Posted by cryptid01
(Post 15335569)
i run 105 on the DH bike
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../edit-0540.jpg & DA on the 4X http://www.pbase.com/robertseth/imag...2/original.jpg its definitely possible and in some cases beneficial to cross those marketing lines the alivio line was re-classified by shimano at one point iirc Or - if those derailleurs have battle scars - please post pics! :beer: |
Originally Posted by MisterK
(Post 15335658)
sorry to derail abit, but i actually have a question about this.
i recently swapped to a 22-33-bash raceface ride. im using an alivio mega 9 fd and it seems that its just not setting up right with a double chainring crankset. heres a pic, thats as close as i can get the derailleur without it sitting directly on the chainstay. is there such thing as triple specific derailleurs? is this just the way its going to look and i should be fine or do i need to go to a Hone or something else. it just doesnt look right.... http://i.imgur.com/3YioCmk.jpg?1 |
Originally Posted by rebel1916
(Post 15335799)
Oh yeah, I'm am not in anyway suggesting the OP was useful, but that kind of is the crux of what I'm wondering. Was Acera better in the early oughts than it is in the early teens?
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i hooked it all up and got my limits set and yeah, it looks kinda off, but it works perfectly fine. 1st to 2nd and back works fine, 3rd was eliminated with the limit screws (its a bash anyway).
cant wait for spring, shes all ready now aside from some chain lube (I MIGHT spring for a new chain and cables and casing....but maybe not...) |
Originally Posted by MisterK
(Post 15336397)
i hooked it all up and got my limits set and yeah, it looks kinda off, but it works perfectly fine. 1st to 2nd and back works fine, 3rd was eliminated with the limit screws (its a bash anyway).
cant wait for spring, shes all ready now aside from some chain lube (I MIGHT spring for a new chain and cables and casing....but maybe not...) Sprung for some corrosion resistant chains last year and drove one through the winter. I'm sold - won't be buying anything else from now on. Course for those people that manage to put on enough milage in a few months to wear out a chain there wouldn't be much advantage. I'm running the RaceFace Deus XC myself with 44/32/22 Turbine chainrings. Three years in I still like it! Maybe you can post how you make out with that Ride. With a bashguard I think you're into trails with more hazards than I am. They closed the XC trails at Bromont so I gotta look for something else anyway. DH is still open and a few buddies have some extra bikes :) |
Originally Posted by Burton
(Post 15335899)
Cool! And from what I can see both short cage derailleurs. The advantage of a DH specific RD like Hone or Saint or Zee is that they're designed to take multiple direct impacts from rocks and still keep on working. I'm thinking you're a much better rider at avoiding contact with large items than the average down hiller.
Or - if those derailleurs have battle scars - please post pics! :beer: no major damage but its tougher than you might think and just nice and tucked up out of the way, which turns lots of direct hits into mere close calls. saint is next to bulletproof but of course one wayward stick is still all it takes... |
Originally Posted by cryptid01
(Post 15337088)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psec6bf71a.jpg
no major damage but its tougher than you might think and just nice and tucked up out of the way, which turns lots of direct hits into mere close calls. saint is next to bulletproof but of course one wayward stick is still all it takes... Dare you to post that in the roadie forum! :lol: |
Originally Posted by Burton
(Post 15337266)
Dare you to post that in the roadie forum! :lol:
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Originally Posted by cryptid01
(Post 15338093)
theres a roadie forum? i had no idea
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Originally Posted by dminor
(Post 15303460)
And your "advice" still would have been totally useless for the person's situation.
It is quite obvious you know very little about mountain bikes, although you seem to have some general bicycle knowledge. You would really serve yourself - - and everyone else - - better if you spent more time reading and absorbing the information on this forum rather than attempting to dispense any. |
ssorry guys but it was my comment stating that he actual posted a mtb specific question and that if you don't like him on a personal level to ignore him that has spearheaded this discussion about what it and isn't MTB equipment. First and foremeost, a lot of you may know a ton about bikes but you may not know a lot about business. I know for a fact that half of the reason that Shimano has all these different levels is simply to create a PERCEPTION of value and luxury. it doesn't necessarily mean that the more expensive products are better. Quite frankly, we are pretty fortunate that almost everything shimano makes is functionally excellent. Often times we are paying higher price for lighter weight pieces that in many cases offer us LESS durability and marginally improved function.
You can tell me all you want that alivio is a "hybrid" groupset and I'll tell you that in practice on one of my beater bikes it has been more than up to the task at the shift lever, brake lever, and rear derailleur and while I can appreciate an analogy such as "just because I drive my sports car on the beach doesn't make it a dune buggy" I would say that really isn't an apples to apples comparison. A sports car and dunebuggy we are talking about the frame and chassis setup a lot more than the engine and drive train under the hood. The proper analogy would be to drop a 500 hp v8 engine in the dunebuggy. You can still easily drive it on the beach, you just have far more horsepower than you need. Or like buying the 4cylinder version of a ford mustang. You still have a sports car, it's just probably not going to win any races but it can still competently navigate it's way around the track. So again, I say to you that it's obvious some have had issues with the OP, but why not just either answer his question or save yourselves the time and ignore him if you think him to be an idiot. He may very well have proven himself an idiot in other threads, but he's not out of line here. |
I just try to positivily participate.
I got no qualms with alivio, but I don't ride hardcore DH or extreme freeride. Anything intermediate or cross country, alivio should be perfectly fine. (It set up prefectly fine for me with no problem.) And the mustang II came with a 4cyl option, so a 4cyl mustang def does exist as compared to a sportscar dunebuggy. |
Originally Posted by MisterK
(Post 15343159)
I just try to positivily participate.
I got no qualms with alivio, but I don't ride hardcore DH or extreme freeride. Anything intermediate or cross country, alivio should be perfectly fine. (It set up prefectly fine for me with no problem.) And the mustang II came with a 4cyl option, so a 4cyl mustang def does exist as compared to a sportscar dunebuggy. But the SVO Mustang from 85 or 86 was a 4 cylinder and it was the real deal (turbo'ed out) |
Originally Posted by DiscTruckerMF
(Post 15342659)
(snip) First and foremeost, a lot of you may know a ton about bikes but you may not know a lot about business. I know for a fact that half of the reason that Shimano has all these different levels is simply to create a PERCEPTION of value and luxury. (snip)
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Originally Posted by Burton
(Post 15344627)
Hate to say it - but you're living in a complete fantasy world. Shimano provides training videos on all its components outlining the significant differences and how to properly set up and service each one. Some of the differences are not immediately obvious - they're all significant. You're also in a bicycle forum where some people here manage and run their own shops successfully. My own background includes several years as a senior business analyst for one of the largest aircraft companiesq in the world. I'm in the cycling industry now cause I LIKE it. Don't know what your own business background is but its not coming across as anything but superficial.
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This thread is now officially complete. Gauntlet is thrown on an e-race.
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All that is needed is...
:popcorn:popcorn:popcorn:popcorn:popcorn:popcorn |
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