Shimano goes to great length in their dealer catalogues to describe exactly what their components are designed to handle, and each category is matched against a description of the driving terrain for that category and the bike style suitable.
Track: Circuit criterium, Point to point, Olympic competition
Bike: Superlight hardtail, good 4-inch dual suspension for rough and marathon style
Track: Hilly terrain, Back country areas
Bike: Hardtail, light weight 4 to 5-inch dual suspension.
Track: Stepping bump, Single track, Mountain path
Bike: Moderate 5 to 6-inch dual suspension with good pedaling efficiency.
Track: Rugged relief, mountain challenge, long and winding route
Bike: Stable 6 to 7-inch dual suspension with advanced control, Stiff axle system for frame rigidity.
Track: Observed trial stair. Drop offs and big air jumps.
Bike: Durable 7 to 8-in suspension for big drops and gravity terrain.
Track: Down hill race course, Steep and rocky sections
Bike: Aggressive 8-inch plus dual suspension for perfect bike control.
Track: On-road, Smooth off-road.
Bike: Cross, Trekking, Comfort
Track: Smooth off-road
Bike: Short travel suspension, Non-suspendion.
Track: City paved road
Bike: MTB look alike
Alivio, Acera and altus are only specced against ONE of those classifications - casual MTB. And 'smooth off-road' terrain they've also stated you can tackle with a comfort bike or trekking bike.
In fact they also print a warning:
So its possible that Shimano doesn't have a clue what they're designing, but I think its far more likely that some cyclists are simply over-rating their ability as mountain bikers and simply aren't pushing their equipment anywhere near the design limits - and that lots of reasonable riders could do those same 'trails' on comfort bikes and hybrids. There are a few riders that I know that deliberately use Alivio for serious mtb biking - but they go through three or four rear mechs a season and would rather do that than put out the money for a Saint rear mech.Don't use a bike equipped with casual MTB/City components on agressive off-road trails. Alivio, Acera and Altus components are not developed for serious MTB riding. and there is a clear distinction with higher end components such as Deore and Saint groups in terms of purpose of use.
Just my opinion and another view on things.
Last edited by Burton; 03-02-13 at 09:03 AM.
I just swapped out an Alivio (9-speed) drivetrain for a RaceFace /Hone setup because I plan on some rough riding myself and don't want RD issues.ACERA is an MTB-style component group that offers an 8-speed drivetrain. ACERA delivers the responsive feeling of a serious mountain bike to casual riders and entry-level cyclists.
Last edited by Burton; 03-02-13 at 12:09 PM.
i run 105 on the DH bike
& DA on the 4X
its definitely possible and in some cases beneficial to cross those marketing lines
the alivio line was re-classified by shimano at one point iirc
i recently swapped to a 22-33-bash raceface ride. im using an alivio mega 9 fd and it seems that its just not setting up right with a double chainring crankset. heres a pic, thats as close as i can get the derailleur without it sitting directly on the chainstay.
is there such thing as triple specific derailleurs? is this just the way its going to look and i should be fine or do i need to go to a Hone or something else. it just doesnt look right....
Or - if those derailleurs have battle scars - please post pics!
i hooked it all up and got my limits set and yeah, it looks kinda off, but it works perfectly fine. 1st to 2nd and back works fine, 3rd was eliminated with the limit screws (its a bash anyway).
cant wait for spring, shes all ready now aside from some chain lube (I MIGHT spring for a new chain and cables and casing....but maybe not...)
Sprung for some corrosion resistant chains last year and drove one through the winter. I'm sold - won't be buying anything else from now on. Course for those people that manage to put on enough milage in a few months to wear out a chain there wouldn't be much advantage.
I'm running the RaceFace Deus XC myself with 44/32/22 Turbine chainrings. Three years in I still like it! Maybe you can post how you make out with that Ride. With a bashguard I think you're into trails with more hazards than I am. They closed the XC trails at Bromont so I gotta look for something else anyway. DH is still open and a few buddies have some extra bikes
Last edited by Burton; 03-02-13 at 05:54 PM.
Feeling Good by David Burns
ssorry guys but it was my comment stating that he actual posted a mtb specific question and that if you don't like him on a personal level to ignore him that has spearheaded this discussion about what it and isn't MTB equipment. First and foremeost, a lot of you may know a ton about bikes but you may not know a lot about business. I know for a fact that half of the reason that Shimano has all these different levels is simply to create a PERCEPTION of value and luxury. it doesn't necessarily mean that the more expensive products are better. Quite frankly, we are pretty fortunate that almost everything shimano makes is functionally excellent. Often times we are paying higher price for lighter weight pieces that in many cases offer us LESS durability and marginally improved function.
You can tell me all you want that alivio is a "hybrid" groupset and I'll tell you that in practice on one of my beater bikes it has been more than up to the task at the shift lever, brake lever, and rear derailleur and while I can appreciate an analogy such as "just because I drive my sports car on the beach doesn't make it a dune buggy" I would say that really isn't an apples to apples comparison. A sports car and dunebuggy we are talking about the frame and chassis setup a lot more than the engine and drive train under the hood. The proper analogy would be to drop a 500 hp v8 engine in the dunebuggy. You can still easily drive it on the beach, you just have far more horsepower than you need. Or like buying the 4cylinder version of a ford mustang. You still have a sports car, it's just probably not going to win any races but it can still competently navigate it's way around the track.
So again, I say to you that it's obvious some have had issues with the OP, but why not just either answer his question or save yourselves the time and ignore him if you think him to be an idiot. He may very well have proven himself an idiot in other threads, but he's not out of line here.
I just try to positivily participate.
I got no qualms with alivio, but I don't ride hardcore DH or extreme freeride. Anything intermediate or cross country, alivio should be perfectly fine. (It set up prefectly fine for me with no problem.)
And the mustang II came with a 4cyl option, so a 4cyl mustang def does exist as compared to a sportscar dunebuggy.
Last edited by Burton; 03-04-13 at 05:36 PM.