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View Poll Results: Is Dirt Jumping/Urban Riding Mountain Biking
Of Course 37 71.15%
No Way 9 17.31%
No Opinion 6 11.54%
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Old 02-16-05, 06:52 PM   #1
CranxOC
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Dirt Jumping/Urban Riding...Mountain Biking or Not?

I know I may get blasted for asking this question/stating my opinion on this, however I am curious what others think about this.

Basically, I believe that the only reason that dirt jumping still enters into the conversation of mountain biking is because of two reasons:

1. The bikes have front suspension forks and therefore approximate mountain bikes more than any other type of bike.

2. The dirt jumping niche hasn't quite grown large enough to justify its own media (magazines, etc) coverage yet so it continues to get lumped in with mountain biking since it really has nowhere else to go.

I know there are people who are really passionate about dirt jumping and, in no way am I belittling this particular cycling niche I'm just saying that it's not mountain biking and, in fact, is MUCH closer to being BMX than what most (I'm guessing) consider mountain biking.

Thoughts...
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Old 02-16-05, 07:03 PM   #2
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I guess if you want to get technical, you can say mountain biking is any riding that's not on a road and is going up or down a mountain, but what difference does it make? I mean, there are singletrack trails with dirt jumps on them, what does that count as? DOes it make a difference what classification it fits into?
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Old 02-16-05, 07:11 PM   #3
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Dang straight it is.You'll get all kind of responses out of this one.This past week I have been trail riding on my full squish, a gravel road ride on my steel HT, and gone urban/dirt jumping on my SS.I think if your on a 24 or 26in off road bike then your doing the MTB thing fer sure.Feltup will give you a different view but that's what makes this forum fun.
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Old 02-16-05, 07:22 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by CranxOC

2. The dirt jumping niche hasn't quite grown large enough to justify its own media (magazines, etc) coverage yet so it continues to get lumped in with mountain biking since it really has nowhere else to go.
what are you talking about... it has its own media, flow, and decline are all about the scene, and what about drop in tv, and movies
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Old 02-16-05, 07:48 PM   #5
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Does this look like a BMX bike to you?
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Old 02-16-05, 07:55 PM   #6
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DJ'ing is missing one thing, the Mountain....

Actually, to me MtnBiking consists of several different types of riding styles....

Dirt Jumping
DownHill Racing
Dirt/Fire Road riding
FreeRide
Trials
Giant Slolam
CrossCountry

I suppose any kind of bike with a tire wider than your Pinky is considered "MtnBiking" in this lifetime anyway....
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Old 02-16-05, 07:56 PM   #7
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i djed @ silver mt.
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Old 02-16-05, 07:56 PM   #8
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i disagree with your logic. first, most urban riding very closely replicates the skills used on a mountain bike on a trail, like creating your own line, negating obstacles, etc. bmx dirt jumpers and park riders require very highly prepared surfaces, because their bikes are so specialized to prepared terrain, they dont have the ablility to ride jumps without transitions, drops, etc. they are also dismal bikes to ride on a trail, or commute on. urban mtb's can ride much more varied and rough terrain, creating jumps out of random junk hanging around, making their own lines in a city that often dont include any transitions, using stairs, ledges, etc. i can and have ride a trail with an urban bike, as well as commute to class on it.
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Old 02-16-05, 08:01 PM   #9
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I think it's still a type of mountain biking. 'True' BMX riding is racing on a dirt track, right? But BMX has come to mean street tricks, so it seems.

Mountian riding, going simply by the name, implies it would be any riding done in a mountainous setting, in difficult terrain.

If BMX can evolve from a dirt track to trickery on man-made objects, why can't mountain biking extend from natural objects to objects found in an urban setting?

If you define mountain biking as being only over naturally formed terrain, off-road, uphill or down, doesn't that exclude North Shore-type riding, or really any type of riding done on objects constructed, even if they are constructed in the mountains?

Sure, dirt jumping and urban riding is best suited to bikes outfitted with different parts than most mountain bikes are equipped with. One brake is generally enough, since there aren't any cliffs you'll go off (if some idiot didnt put the jump that close to a cliff).


Didn't the transition to 'street' BMX go through the same stage as mountain biking is now, splitting into a different 'type' of riding, having people who regret it and people who love it?
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Old 02-16-05, 08:05 PM   #10
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Look up hell track which consists of MotoCross Doubles or watch NWDIIIYou got some slopeage there. Also the street scene was originated in the north east US and Canada, where there was not a whole lot of trails to be had and most of the ski resorts up here won't allow bikes up the mountain, so they caused an evolution in the mtbing scene by getting slick tires and started to stunt ride.
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Old 02-16-05, 10:20 PM   #11
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Not gonna argue but yes it is. If you NEED a mountain to mountain bike then I guess everyone in the midwest/florida or other flat lands is road cycling.
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Old 02-17-05, 12:11 AM   #12
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Not gonna argue but yes it is. If you NEED a mountain to mountain bike then I guess everyone in the midwest/florida or other flat lands is road cycling.
Too much
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Old 02-17-05, 07:10 AM   #13
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Im an average rider that has been riding for 4 years now. I do it for the passion of exploring new boundaries and pushing my skills further. With my hartail, that i have used for everything possible, I explore my city and always look for new lines. Its simply the discovery brag and happiness that you rode it that makes you ride a little further or higher. I agree with "handlebars", what he is sayng is that street riding is using what you have to give you happiness. We all are trapped in this concrete jungle that is filled with obstacles both physically and metaphorically so it is human nature to adapt and try find a "new way." For those that are living in the country or out of cities, you still push your limits in this new age of urban, jumping, freeriding, balancing, hucking and enjoying what two wheels can do for you.
Keep Riding for the reason to enjoy it rather than for the type of riding you do>>>
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Old 02-17-05, 09:40 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Lazzer
Im an average rider that has been riding for 4 years now. I do it for the passion of exploring new boundaries and pushing my skills further. With my hartail, that i have used for everything possible, I explore my city and always look for new lines. Its simply the discovery brag and happiness that you rode it that makes you ride a little further or higher. I agree with "handlebars", what he is sayng is that street riding is using what you have to give you happiness. We all are trapped in this concrete jungle that is filled with obstacles both physically and metaphorically so it is human nature to adapt and try find a "new way." For those that are living in the country or out of cities, you still push your limits in this new age of urban, jumping, freeriding, balancing, hucking and enjoying what two wheels can do for you.
Keep Riding for the reason to enjoy it rather than for the type of riding you do>>>
Great post.
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Old 02-17-05, 09:41 AM   #15
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Ok I had a Giant XTC SE2 that I had slicks on and commuted to work on plus some ride for exercise. Just because I used a bike classified as a MTB doesn't mean I was mountain biking. I traded it and got a roadie.

Mountain biking is off road and in the sticks, on a mountain is prefferable. No people in FL aren't mountain biking. Urban riding and dirt jumping is NOT mountain biking. Nothing wrong with this kind of cycling just not really mountain biking.


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Does this look like a BMX bike to you?
YES
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Old 02-17-05, 10:46 AM   #16
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Who cares! we all ride bikes why does every one have to lable everything? what's a cyclo-cross bike.
Get over it.
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Old 02-17-05, 11:20 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Grasschopper
Ok I had a Giant XTC SE2 that I had slicks on and commuted to work on plus some ride for exercise. Just because I used a bike classified as a MTB doesn't mean I was mountain biking. I traded it and got a roadie.

Mountain biking is off road and in the sticks, on a mountain is prefferable. No people in FL aren't mountain biking. Urban riding and dirt jumping is NOT mountain biking. Nothing wrong with this kind of cycling just not really mountain biking.




YES
And you probably will never see any sticks or mountains you used it to commute I use my bike to ride trails dirt jump and ride urban with, so who are you to determine what mountain biking is. "I had a mountain bike but only used it to commute to work" is not a valid reason to say what is and what isn't. Yes people in florida can mountain bike, it was called mountain biking because it was originated in the mountains of California, remember that no terrain is equal anywhere, mountain biking in Florida is a whole diferent matter than mountain biking in New Hampshire which is completely different than riding in Utah. The sport evolves to fit with the terrain, so to claim that people in Florida can't mountainbike is crock full of BS.
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Old 02-17-05, 11:22 AM   #18
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you need to get back into touch with reality, grasschopper. look where the INDUSTRY LEADERS put the dirt jumping bikes


www.trekbikes.com www.specialized.com
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Old 02-17-05, 11:46 AM   #19
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Looks like I set off a bit of a firestorm here so I'll respond to a couple of posts (I actually tried responding last night but accidentally erased my post...that sucked) all at once and then I'll hit a couple of specific posters.

Basically I still don't see how riding a bike in an area that's surrounded by nothing but suburbs, buildings, quick-e-marts, etc and riding obstacles that are entirely man-made with no hint of a trail anywhere or wilderness anywhere is classified as "mountain biking." The guy who said that mountain biking was founded by guys riding in the mountains of CA is right; that's where it started and, therefore, that's how it was and is defined. Riding sans any semblance of wilderness is something other than mountain bikingÖperiod.

I will continue to maintain that DJ much more closely approximates BMX style riding than it does mountain biking despite the skill-sets that were pointed out by handlebarsfsr. Yes, DJ/urban requires many of these skills but, truth be told, virtually every discipline of cycling requires the same base skill-set which is why you find so many former BMX and XC riders riding in the peleton come Tour time.

Essentially, the only reason that DJ is considered mountain biking is due to the fact that the bike resembles a mountain bike more closely than it does any other type of bike (and yes KonaRider, your bike does look like a BMX ride. With the lack of a seat-post and the compact frame geometry it looks as much like BMX bike as it does a MTB.) The same can be said of cyclocross bikes. They tend to be classified within the road category simply because of the fact that they have drop bars, skinny tires and rigid forks but if what they do isnít XC racing then I really donít know what is.

Iím not disparaging the DJ/urban discipline of cycling, all Iím saying is that it is in no way, shape or form mountain biking.
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Old 02-17-05, 11:49 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by trekkie820
you need to get back into touch with reality, grasschopper. look where the INDUSTRY LEADERS put the dirt jumping bikes


www.trekbikes.com www.specialized.com
This only serves to further my point that DJ still doesn't have a full niche of its own. I guarantee that at some point within the next five years, DJ bikes will not be classified under the header of "mountain bikes." Soon they'll diversify enough that the facade will fall and they'll move under the sub-header of "specialty bikes" like cyclocross has on the Trek site.
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Old 02-17-05, 11:56 AM   #21
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Do I have to spell it out for you? I gave a frikken historical back ground on it earlier in this thread. Seems like you are not reading anything that hurts your cause, fact is it is in there because they may bee called dirt jump bikes when in reality they are freeride hardtails. Which can be used anywhere. Oh wait you're the type that thinks xc is the only form of mountain biking, and with the current state of xc all it is would relate to road biking on dirt. What was known as XC is now known as trail riding. But once a person has their mountain bikes touch pavement in attempt to try a new challenge as in riding off of obstacles it's not considered mountainbiking, get a life and go mtbr if you choose to take that attitude.
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Old 02-17-05, 12:17 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by KonaRider24
Do I have to spell it out for you? I gave a frikken historical back ground on it earlier in this thread. Seems like you are not reading anything that hurts your cause, fact is it is in there because they may bee called dirt jump bikes when in reality they are freeride hardtails. Which can be used anywhere. Oh wait you're the type that thinks xc is the only form of mountain biking, and with the current state of xc all it is would relate to road biking on dirt. What was known as XC is now known as trail riding. But once a person has their mountain bikes touch pavement in attempt to try a new challenge as in riding off of obstacles it's not considered mountainbiking, get a life and go mtbr if you choose to take that attitude.
People like you are hilarious. You take this kind of stuff very personally and it's people like you that screw politics, foreign relations, normal conversation up for the rest of us every day.

As a matter of fact, I would consider DH, free ride, XC, all mountain, etc mountain biking because they all have one thing in common: nature and wilderness; something that is conspicuously lacking from the DJ/urban side of things.

Sorry that you're so personally offended by my OPINION that DJ/urban is not mountain biking but them's the breaks chief.
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Old 02-17-05, 12:37 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CranxOC
People like you are hilarious. You take this kind of stuff very personally and it's people like you that screw politics, foreign relations, normal conversation up for the rest of us every day.

As a matter of fact, I would consider DH, free ride, XC, all mountain, etc mountain biking because they all have one thing in common: nature and wilderness; something that is conspicuously lacking from the DJ/urban side of things.

Sorry that you're so personally offended by my OPINION that DJ/urban is not mountain biking but them's the breaks chief.
Though it's your opinion and you're entitled to it, it seems like you impeding on others opinion's.
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Old 02-17-05, 01:41 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn
Too much
I will let Konarider dish it out. I am sick of having to define disciplines. djing and street are disciplines of mountain biking. Or if you really want to split the sport more they are disciplines of freeriding which is in and of itself a discipline of mountain biking. So...still...it is a form of mountain biking.
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Old 02-17-05, 01:48 PM   #25
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On the one hand you can see DJ/urban as an evolution of mountain biking and on the other hand you can see it as an application of MTB technology to BMX. DJ/Urban sounds like doing BMX style stuff on a MTB. Is it one or the other, or is it just a logical evolution of both? Either way it doesn't really matter since if you're on a bike and you're having fun then it's all good.

I've just got back into mountain biking after a 4 year hiatus and discovered that what I called mountain biking is called XC, DH is effectively going down ski slopes in summer on a bike (you're insane!) and I'm still not sure what the difference is between free ride and all mountain.

Paul
PS To me, that bike looks like a BMX with knobbly tyres and suspension fork but when I was looking through specialized's 2005 catalog for a new bike I noticed that that seems to be the current trend in the industry.
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