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Old 01-13-14, 12:00 PM   #1
slowride454
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On One / Planet X / Titus sizing and geometry

Does anyone have a link to the geometry on these frames? I can only find sparse references to various dimensions, but not a complete chart.

I'm looking at the Scandal or Lurcher from On One, the Dirty Harry from Planet X and the Rockstar from Titus.

I want to take all the components off my GT Karakoram to make it more XC race worthy and fit me better.
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Old 01-13-14, 01:55 PM   #2
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Planet X Dirty Harry:
http://www.planet-x-usa.com/Planet-X...h29mtbdisc.htm (geometry tab)

On One Scandal:
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOSCSO...p_out_frame_v2 (geometry tab)
Lurcher:
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOLUR2...ail_29er_frame (geometry tab)

Titus Rockstar:
http://www.titusti.com/bikes/twenty-...rockstar-29er/ (scroll down)


In all cases, Google was my friend.
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Old 01-13-14, 05:56 PM   #3
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it looks like most of these should handle the same or worse than my current rig, but the reviews tell me otherwise. Since I can not ride any of the smaller brands, what are some important numbers to consider outside of the obvious: chainstay length, headtube angle, seat angle, BB height? Frame sizing affects seat tube and top tube and wheelbase too, but doesn't look like it affects the handling characteristics as much.

Maybe after I finish my last masters degree class I can make a giant spreadsheet with all of this info, but what will it tell me?
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Old 01-13-14, 06:44 PM   #4
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As far as handling characteristics, I would look mostly at head angle, chainstay length and bottom bracket drop vs. BB height. HA is very important to me because I tend to like bikes a bit slack; CS length, especially with 29ers, govern how 'snappy' they feel on the trail; and BB drop is what imparts the "in-it-not-on-it" feel - - again more pronounced in 29ers - - but weighing that against BB clearance. Don't want it too low or you start having pedal-strike issues.


Beyond that, I really wish all MTB companies would drop the antiquated TT/ETT and seat tube length and give us the Reach & Stack numbers.
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Old 01-13-14, 09:41 PM   #5
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Thanks.
So here are the numbers on the GT Karakoram Medium

Head Tube Angle - 71
Seat Tube Angle - 73
Top Tube Length - 603mm
Seat Tube Length - 471mm
Chain Stay Length - 445mm
Wheel Base - 1095mm
Stand Over Height - 772mm
Head Tube Length - 110mm
Fork Offset - 45mm
Bottom Bracket Height - 315mm
Bottom Bracket Drop - 58mm
Front Center - 656mm

I have a 110mm stem on it and still feel a bit cramped. I have the saddle about 3/4 of the adjustment rearward on the straight seat post which is 1.63" farther behind the BB than I am on my road bike.

As I've started to learn more over the last few days, some of my riding perceptions are starting to make more sense. Many riders seem to prefer much shorter stems. This bike is very difficult for me to manual, even onto curbs, without excessive force. Just pedaling harder and shifting my weight back does not bring the front end up. I have to shift forward and then build momentum to get the front end up. When I watch some of the good videos of pros riding, they seem to be able to unweight the front so easily and pedal right through it. I used to be able to ride wheelies for forever on my BMX bikes back in the day. My feeling of uneasiness with steep descents is understandable now also. I have to get way back, like chest on saddle and butt almost touching the rear tire, for steeper descents. On the really steep stuff I feel like I'm going to go OTB and usually bail early or just walk. When cornering the front end feels heavy. This could be sizing and geometry, but also could be my sag setup. I've never adjusted it. I didn't know any better until I started to look into why I didn't like the bike. As a clyde, I probably need to add a bunch of air, so when I brake, I probably dive excessively and use up most of the suspension. I don't experience pedal strike right now, but then again I don't attack rock gardens. When I go fast into a rock garden the fork bottoms out and stays there, even after I play with the rebound damping. Again, I probably need to add some air.
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Old 01-14-14, 06:51 AM   #6
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This bike is very difficult for me to manual, even onto curbs, without excessive force.
It's those long chain stays. Great for keeping you planted on climbs, but a bear to get the front end up. I would look for sub-17" chainstays on a 29er hardtail.

It also sounds like you could go to something with a slacker HT angle than the GT to give you a little more stability in the steep/rough. The front end being heavy could be geometry and the stock fork is not particularly light(5+ lbs).
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Old 01-14-14, 11:17 AM   #7
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besides Canfield, who else makes frames with really short chainstays? Does the same principle apply to FS bikes?
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Old 01-14-14, 01:40 PM   #8
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besides Canfield, who else makes frames with really short chainstays? Does the same principle apply to FS bikes?
I think shorter stays is the way companies are trending, even if it's not the "AM" type of 29er like a Yelli/Nimble9. Just a quick look at the Specialized Stumpjumper and Trek Superfly(both popular XC 29ers) shows that the stays are right around 17.1".

There are a few others similar to the Canfields...Niner ROS9, Transition TransAM, Kona Honzo, Banshee Paradox. Probably a few that I'm missing. And you don't necessarily need to go to something super-short like those bikes -- something right around the 17" mark might be all it takes to make a difference for you.

Yeah, the chainstay length definitely carries over to FS as well. I've owned a few FS29ers and I ended up going back to 26", and in the process of building a 27.5. The FS29er's I have owned were great for covering ground fast, but they all felt stuck to the ground and I really missed the poppy nature of smaller wheels or even the Yelli Screamy. Now for some, that might not be as big of an issue. But for me, at 5'9" and not exactly hitting the weights as often as I should, the 29er FS bikes have some times been unwieldy to maneuver. I guess that sounds kind of contradictory since I do thoroughly enjoy the Yelli('cept that harsh AL frame), but I think that is more based on the geometry and overall lighter weight(compared to FS).
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Old 01-15-14, 12:20 AM   #9
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you guys are going get me killed. My wife is not happy now...LOL

Now I gotta figure out how to finance this and decide on which frame to select. That Trans AM looks great and the Honzo/Taro are appealing, but I really like the Yelli Screamy and the Paradox.

Which one would be more XC-ish vs. AM-ish? The frames both look to be about 4.5lbs. When I service my fork I'll bump it up to 120mm. I can run the P35 rims and Conti Trail King 2.4s and short stem/wider bars when in AM mode. Then switch to the Alex rims and SB8 tires with narrower XXX bars/longer stem for XC. It will still be a 31-32lb tank like my current bike, but at least it will handle a bit better and most of all be much more fun to ride. Both frames should take my el-cheapo crappy 3 x 9 stuff for now, but I'll have to horse trade for a direct mount FD. I'll have to make sure I get the correct headset for a straight steerer until I can upgrade to a better fork. If I figure it right I will only need to buy a frame, headset, shorter stem and cables. Anything else I'm missing? I've built up a few road/CX bikes, but this will be my first MTB build. Hopefully bleeding the cheap Shimano brakes will go well.

I've read there are tire clearance issues in the rear on the Banshee. Does anyone have experience with the V2 frame?
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Old 01-15-14, 10:24 AM   #10
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Can't really peg any of those as XC bikes, but it is the type of bike you'll be able to ride almost anywhere. Whether on our local XC trails or out in the mtns, the Yelli is great.

I can't speak on the other bikes, since I don't have any direct experience with them, but some setup issues can come with the short chainstays. If you want to run wide tires, you might have a problem with front derailleur setup. Chainring size(in the middle ring position of a 3x crank) can also be an issue. That's a 32t Raceface Narrow-wide ring in the middle position, in the photo. The tooth profile of the RF NW does make it closer to the chainstay than a standard geared ring in the same size, so you can run a slightly larger geared ring.

If you have the stock spec(Bikepedia - 2011 GT Karokoram 1.0), you may need a new bottom bracket depending on the width of your current BB shell on the GT -- width isn't shown on that link. May also need a different size seatpost, size also not listed. Other than those and the headset, you should be good.

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Old 01-15-14, 01:17 PM   #11
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Thanks for the tips. By XC, I mean weight and a little bit geometry. In WI, our races do not have excessive climbing or huge long descents. Most of the races are tight singletrack with trees right on the trail with plenty of roots/rocks and short, steep drops. Some of the races are much more open where this type of bike will definitely be a disadvantage, but I don't know I will be giving up as much time in pedaling efficiency as I currently give up in the technical sections. Most importantly, I ride 8-10 times a month in summer. I only race once a month. I'd much rather have fun.

The current crankset is Alivio 44/32/22 and the BB is 68/73 compatible. Although not my favorite, it will have to do until I can find something better at swap meets and online. I'm heavy and the bike will be heavy, so want gears. maybe someday SRAM will trickle the 11 speed stuff farther down to X9 or even X7 level. I will have to get a Shimano XT FD-M771-D for the front. It looks like a top pull, so it should work. The current seatpost is 30.9 I'll be watching the swap meets for a dropper post once I get everything sorted out.


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Can't really peg any of those as XC bikes, but it is the type of bike you'll be able to ride almost anywhere. Whether on our local XC trails or out in the mtns, the Yelli is great.

I can't speak on the other bikes, since I don't have any direct experience with them, but some setup issues can come with the short chainstays. If you want to run wide tires, you might have a problem with front derailleur setup. Chainring size(in the middle ring position of a 3x crank) can also be an issue. That's a 32t Raceface Narrow-wide ring in the middle position, in the photo. The tooth profile of the RF NW does make it closer to the chainstay than a standard geared ring in the same size, so you can run a slightly larger geared ring.

If you have the stock spec(Bikepedia - 2011 GT Karokoram 1.0), you may need a new bottom bracket depending on the width of your current BB shell on the GT -- width isn't shown on that link. May also need a different size seatpost, size also not listed. Other than those and the headset, you should be good.

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Old 01-21-14, 12:05 PM   #12
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Large black anodized Yelli Screamy will be shipped out to me in a few hours. I got a call from Sean at Canfield a few minutes ago telling me they are out of the blue anodized large frames so I opted for black instead of the green. Had to scramble to change my orders with Jenson and Chain Reaction to get my handlebar and grip clamps changed from blue to red. Build will commence in a couple of weeks.
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Old 01-24-14, 09:06 AM   #13
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Good stuff. Blue ano would have been my first choice too, but the black/red will be nice. Can't wait to see it.
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Old 01-29-14, 07:00 AM   #14
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frame showed up yesterday. would have been sooner, but there was a train derailment in MN. The frame is beautiful and weighs a svelte 4.4lb for a large. still waiting for the headset, then I can slowly start putting it together. It will take me a while since I will be riding the GT in the snow.
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