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  1. #5351
    Senior Member HC203's Avatar
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    NR-Joppa was far over your head as you made a left onto Charles off of Kenilworth. For future reference-When you were at the light at Charles and Kenilworth you can go straight on Bellona which brings you down to the intersection of Joppa and Bellona, quick right onto Joppa and you would be maybe 2 miles from Meadowood.

  2. #5352
    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
    Do they participate in any other commuter benefits (parking, mass transit)? If so, do they use a third party to handle the disbursements? If yes then I believe there is something that can be done but I have to confirm that.
    Yes, they use a third party. I saved the 3rd party's website at work--don't recall their name at the moment. Their product description did not include supplying vouchers or cards for use with the Bicycle Commuter benefit.
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

  3. #5353
    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HC203 View Post
    NR-Joppa was far over your head as you made a left onto Charles off of Kenilworth. For future reference-When you were at the light at Charles and Kenilworth you can go straight on Bellona which brings you down to the intersection of Joppa and Bellona, quick right onto Joppa and you would be maybe 2 miles from Meadowood.
    Thanks, Harry. When I was working on the blog, I needed to consult Google Maps for something and I noticed Bellona crossing Joppa. Yeah, that should've been the way to go.
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

  4. #5354
    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Btw, folks, if you go west on Joppa Rd and approach the traffic circle at Delaney Valley, watch out for the embedded metal rail in the road. It's shaped like this |_|

    Here's approximately where it's located:

    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

  5. #5355
    -=Barry=- The Human Car's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoRacer View Post
    Yes, they use a third party. I saved the 3rd party's website at work--don't recall their name at the moment. Their product description did not include supplying vouchers or cards for use with the Bicycle Commuter benefit.
    Contact Stephanie Yanovitz (email at the bottom of this page: http://www.baltometro.org/content/view/79/142 ) She's interested in trying to get the bicycle commuter credit going in the area and getting third parties on board is supposed to be the "easy way" for cyclists to get the credit.

    It may also be worth while contacting the League since they were involved with this legislation they should be interested where it is failing. http://www.bikeleague.org/resources/commuters/
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  6. #5356
    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
    Contact Stephanie Yanovitz (email at the bottom of this page: http://www.baltometro.org/content/view/79/142 ) She's interested in trying to get the bicycle commuter credit going in the area and getting third parties on board is supposed to be the "easy way" for cyclists to get the credit.

    It may also be worth while contacting the League since they were involved with this legislation they should be interested where it is failing. http://www.bikeleague.org/resources/commuters/
    Thanks, Barry! By the way, did you see Stephen Franzoni's post to BBCTalk about the same problem. He stated something like 13 of 14 commuters polled stated that their employers did not support the benefit.

    http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group.../message/11439
    Last edited by NoRacer; 01-17-10 at 06:26 PM.
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

  7. #5357
    -=Barry=- The Human Car's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoRacer View Post
    Thanks, Barry! By the way, did you see Stephen Franzoni's post to BBCTalk about the same problem. He stated something like 13 of 14 commuters polled stated that their employers did not support the benefit.

    http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group.../message/11439
    I have not been able to cover all things cycling as well as I used to so I missed that post. But I'm surprised that even one is getting the credit, it's been real hard to get the credit off the ground, a lot easier for government to pay big bucks to drivers for parking then to encourage cycling.
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  8. #5358
    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
    I have not been able to cover all things cycling as well as I used to so I missed that post. But I'm surprised that even one is getting the credit, it's been real hard to get the credit off the ground, a lot easier for government to pay big bucks to drivers for parking then to encourage cycling.
    Rereading Stephen's post, it does say no one was receiving the benefit--14 people in 13 companies, not 13 out of 14 people.
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

  9. #5359
    Senior Member fletchh's Avatar
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    I work for the Federal Government and have applied for the benefit last year, and I have heard nothing since. I commute to work on my bicycle every day. People using the train or other public transportation can get as much as $230 a month, but bikes so far, nothing. No doubt it will take time and acceptance.

  10. #5360
    Senior Member HC203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletchh View Post
    No doubt it will take time and acceptance.
    It will take $7.00 per gallon to get people on bikes and then maybe you'll see the government taking it seriously. As long as driving a car is still fairly cheap not much will change, a huge luxury tax on BMWs. Mercedes, etc would help. It will always just be bike enthusiasts, fringe element, not just people riding bikes because it makes good transportation sense.

    BTW-I was having a conversation at the gym the other day about the Charles St. Bridge. Are they still planning the bike lane? Where will it go? Kenilworth all the way into Lutherville?

  11. #5361
    -=Barry=- The Human Car's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletchh View Post
    I work for the Federal Government and have applied for the benefit last year, and I have heard nothing since. I commute to work on my bicycle every day. People using the train or other public transportation can get as much as $230 a month, but bikes so far, nothing. No doubt it will take time and acceptance.
    What burns my goat is the largest amount the federal government pays out is for car parking at 100%, yet the people who use commuter rail the maximum amount allowed generally does not cover the actual cost and then on top of that ignoring the cyclists benefit.
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  12. #5362
    4130 on 28's at 15 greaterbrown's Avatar
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    Ahh... It's reaffirming to know it's not just the local and state governments, but the feds as well.
    2013: quit counting 2012 FG century count: 4 2011 century count: ~20 2010 mileage: 10,239 2009 mileage: 8127 2008 mileage: 7157

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  13. #5363
    Senior Member HC203's Avatar
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    Now this is a bike plan. super highways for bikes. Could you imagine a beltway for bikes? or direct routes to downtown from Hunt Valley, Owings Mills, Towson?

    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11901.aspx

  14. #5364
    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HC203 View Post
    Now this is a bike plan. super highways for bikes. Could you imagine a beltway for bikes? or direct routes to downtown from Hunt Valley, Owings Mills, Towson?

    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11901.aspx
    Safety illusion. The pictures seem to show that it's nothing but a bike lane. Distracted drivers, drunks, and heart-attack-in-progress-victims can still ride into you and kill you.

    Even if they were truly segregated bike lanes, sooner or later you would have to join with other road users. Less practice dealing with other road users just sets one up for not knowing how to deal with scenarios when they arise. (My 2 cents worth)

    I'll take a road any day over a MUP, bike trail, or even a segregated bike lane.
    Last edited by NoRacer; 01-19-10 at 11:49 AM.
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

  15. #5365
    -=Barry=- The Human Car's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HC203 View Post
    Now this is a bike plan. super highways for bikes. Could you imagine a beltway for bikes? or direct routes to downtown from Hunt Valley, Owings Mills, Towson?
    Maryland's Interactive Strategic Trail Plan is being demoed at OLC Bicycle Symposium. Pretty cool stuff but of course Balto Metro is highlighted as needing more attention.
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  16. #5366
    -=Barry=- The Human Car's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoRacer View Post
    I'll take a road any day over a MUP, bike trail, or even a segregated bike lane.
    How do you feel about Sharrows, Share the Road signs and Bikes May Use the Full Lane signs and not to mention the State is currently denying or at least very limited use of of these treatments?

    (-=Barry=- Promoting the full range of bicycle accommodations.)
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  17. #5367
    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
    How do you feel about Sharrows, Share the Road signs and Bikes May Use the Full Lane signs and not to mention the State is currently denying or at least very limited use of of these treatments?

    (-=Barry=- Promoting the full range of bicycle accommodations.)
    Barry, to be honest--and I ride a sharrowed road ever day to work--it doesn't change much. Drivers do not avoid roads that employ them, they ignore the paint or just get irritated at the speed tables on some of them that slow them down. I've heard many a low-slung car bottom out on them. I've even had MVOs crowd the edge of the speed table on a sharrowed road, because in some cases, my speed is better than theirs and they don't want to be passed by a bicycle.

    Share The Road signs and Bikes May Use Full Lane signs -may- only help AFTER an incident. They do nothing to keep an MVO attentive or caring about the human being on the bike. IMHO, they're ignored. Do we even have any "Bikes May Use Full Lane" in Maryland?
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

  18. #5368
    4130 on 28's at 15 greaterbrown's Avatar
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    I'd have to agree with NR on this one.

    I ride like a biker and I think like a driver.

    I'd like to see MVO's brought under control, pay for what they use and clearly shown the dangers and disadvantages of driving.
    These I'd like to see far more than the possible protections of bike lanes, sharrows, signage and the like.

    HOWEVER, I acknowledge that my view from the "inside" as an everyday commuter is very different from the novice's who's trying to be more involved, but too scared to get started.
    2013: quit counting 2012 FG century count: 4 2011 century count: ~20 2010 mileage: 10,239 2009 mileage: 8127 2008 mileage: 7157

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  19. #5369
    -=Barry=- The Human Car's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoRacer View Post
    Barry, to be honest--and I ride a sharrowed road ever day to work--it doesn't change much.... Do we even have any "Bikes May Use Full Lane" in Maryland?
    I guess my question/point is for those of us comfortable riding with traffic these options do not interfere with safe operation of the bicycle. And IMHO help highlight to not yet cyclists routes that could be used for bicycling and hopefully get more people out there cycling thus raising awareness and making it safer for everyone.

    The Federal DOT has just adopted the "Bikes May Use Full Lane" (BMUFL) into the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) and Maryland has two years to adopt into its MUTCD. I forget if the nearest BMUFL sign is in Montgomery County or in DC but its not in wide spread use yet.
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  20. #5370
    -=Barry=- The Human Car's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greaterbrown View Post
    I'd like to see MVO's brought under control, pay for what they use and clearly shown the dangers and disadvantages of driving.
    Did you see my post on Baltimore Spokes about "Maryland Budget Map Game"? One item in the game was limiting the amount of sales tax that goes into the Highway Trust fund. Cars pay their own way, ya right. In another post has comments about Oprah talking about the dangers of distracted driving.

    Another interesting observation about the Maryland Budget Map Game is that I played the game being as "anti-car" as I could and it reported no opposition. Hmm.
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  21. #5371
    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greaterbrown View Post
    HOWEVER, I acknowledge that my view from the "inside" as an everyday commuter is very different from the novice's who's trying to be more involved, but too scared to get started.
    +1 - It's hard for me to remember how scared I was when riding up Rossville Blvd at 5:15am on a 35 pound K2 Arcadia "comfort" bike 6 years ago with poor lighting and probably only a reflective vest. I'm sure I was scared _hitless.
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

  22. #5372
    Senior Member HC203's Avatar
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    NR and GB-Indeed-You guys are seasoned, tough, alert, cyclists, but I'm sure more than a few drivers pass you every morning and night muttering "craaaazy". What we are talking about is getting more people on bikes and if they were told they needed to ride where and how you guys ride they simply wouldn't. You have to understand that you are serious bike enthusiasts, the fringe. Now, I've never been to Amsterdam or Copenhagen but I understand they have an entire infrastructure for bikes including stoplights etc. people ride to work wearing suits and without helmets, can't see that at 20 mph on Rossville. When my son and I did our self contained tour of the Loire Valley in France the bike path network was extensive, on the rare occasion that we took to the highway it was terrifying for me as a parent, I could handle but of course my novice son would be fresh meat. I cringe every time I see a cyclist on Charles St. in my neighborhood.

  23. #5373
    -=Barry=- The Human Car's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HC203 View Post
    Now, I've never been to Amsterdam or Copenhagen but I understand they have an entire infrastructure for bikes including stoplights etc. people ride to work wearing suits and without helmets, can't see that at 20 mph on Rossville.
    Not to poo-poo bike facilities in Amsterdam or Copenhagen but they also have a law that any car/bike crash it is automatically the car who is at fault. I am skittish on promoting segregated facilities here as long as there appears to be an anti-cyclists bias in the legal system. IMHO the two cannot be separated (pro bike laws and segregated-bike facilities.)
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  24. #5374
    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HC203 View Post
    NR and GB-Indeed-You guys are seasoned, tough, alert, cyclists, but I'm sure more than a few drivers pass you every morning and night muttering "craaaazy". What we are talking about is getting more people on bikes and if they were told they needed to ride where and how you guys ride they simply wouldn't.
    Speaking for myself, I didn't get to where I'm at overnight. It's been six years of growth as a cyclist.

    What I proposed in another thread on BF was that you will get more cyclists on the road if you can coax them into a club or mentor a new rider. The BBC's annual ride series can be used to springboard new cyclists into riding more, but then it has to be followed up. Teach these new riders, under low pressure situations, how to ride the roads, then progressively expose them to more pressure. Keep the education going using experienced riders from the club as mentors. Don't stop the education once the ride series is over.

    Bud Lippert is unknowingly almost doing this, but having ridden one of his rides, IMHO, he exposes his "casual" riders to a little too much pressure. If he would back the pressure off (i.e., DO NOT place new riders on roads like Ebeneizer Rd!) he (or the club) could use the casual rides as a way to continue new rider education, instill confidence, and over time you will have riders as confident as me and Bob. Get a group of these riders and it's no longer called "crazy"--it's the norm.

    The result of more cyclists on the road is the appearance that the roads are safer. And, they may well be, because MVOs will have to accept this situation as normal and be more sensitive to this environment.
    Last edited by NoRacer; 01-19-10 at 05:37 PM.
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

  25. #5375
    Senior Member HC203's Avatar
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    I don't even know why I'm so concerned with the issue, I work at home, no commute. I guess my beef is really with the way the American culture grows faster, more car dependent, less about quality of life and more about making money, getting to where you're going really fast. I would argue for more public transportation just as much as I would for bike friendly streets. I love visiting cities where I can get around by subway, Metro, Underground. When my son and I went to England and France back in 05 we used public transportation exclusively, I love it, then I come back to Baltimore, every time I go I feel the drive to and from the airport is the most stressful and dangerous part of the trip. But I digress, this is a bike forum.

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