heypaul

I'm posing the question for the 6th Ave bike lane, but it could be on any street. On 6th Ave, the marked bike lane is on the extreme left of the avenue. There is no buffer zone to the right of the lane. Note also, 6th Avenue is a one way northbound avenue.

So I'm riding in the middle of the lane, when I notice that a bike rider is in the lane travelling toward me. The first time this happened to me, I hugged the left side of the bike lane, feeling like he's going the wrong way, he's facing oncoming traffic, so let him ride closer to traffic because he can see what's coming at him. Put more simply, I'm not going to get hit by a car to accomodate someone is going in the wrong direction. I could put it more crudely, but they have a filter on this site.

Yet I've come to see that my bearing to the left and his having to bear to the left, sort of violates the "keep to your right" convention.

How would you deal with this?

Stacy

Depends on my mood. When I'm in a bad mood I'll take the inside, or extreme left, in a lane like Sixth Avenue, figuring let the salmon take the risk.

When I'm in a good mood, or particularly at night when I'm running lights, I'll take the outside part of the lane, extreme right, figuring any traffic behind me knows I'm there but doesn't necessarily expect any salmon.

KitN

Since the salmon is doing everything backwards you can reverse the "keep to your right" convention. Let the salmon have at it on the outside of the lane with traffic. He can see what's coming at him/her. You can't. The salmon is also riding illegally and should be the one to deal with any consequences...

Salmoning has gotten out of control. It's gotten so bad that I now call out to them, motion to them and even sometimes yell at them that they are going the wrong way, to get out of my way and sometimes tell them it's illegal and can get them (and me) killed.

I've noticed that a lot of delivery guys are the worst offenders when it comes to salmoning...

sjauch

Hold your line. I make them move for me. I'm not putting myself in danger because someone else is an idiot.

iluvfreebeer

Clothesline him.

TwoShort

Yell at him. I can't tell you how to handle it in terms of physical-positioning or rules-of-the-road, because he's already blown it on the rules of the road, and you don't have good options. But your post asked about the correct etiquette, and the correct etiquette is profanity: "One <bleep>ing way, <bleep>hole!" if you're not feeling more creative than that.

echappist

haha, i would do that in my dreams. in real life, do what the others suggest, take the side farther from traffic, and make the salmon deal with oncoming traffic. at least i move to the side closer to traffic when going against the flow.

creakier

Salmon? Salmoning?
Brilliant. Now there's a word for that annoying habit.
thanks

henria86

wow... just like what i wanted to say!!!
if not high beam the salmon...

daven1986

just continue straight and hope you are wearing a helmet it they decide to also continue! Personally I feel that they are in the wrong and should make a move.

Metzinger

You guys are so hardcore.
How wide is this lane?
How about overtaking someone? Take the curb or go on the traffic side?

Stray8

If he's coming head-on to me, I'd hold my line and then if he still gets too close to me on the pass I'd accidentally kick him into [for him] oncoming traffic...oops.


.

Stacy

Maybe three or four feet.

Not the Slowest

Smartest thing to do?
Just take the lane from the cars. Let the a-hole get doored
or slammed from someone pulling out from the curb.

Don't die because of someone trying to get a pizza delivered.

pgoat

yes, 90% of the time they're food delivery guys. and they always hug the curb/shoulder. They will stop and dismount rather than go into traffic.

For the hell of it I tried salmoning and it is very frightening facing traffic - even worse than veering into the lane with traffic behind you. You simply do not want to ride into the flow of oncoming traffic you can see...

I have tried yelling (some actually yell back); I usually head right for them if they try to hog the shoulder. It's not hardcore, but you have very little room - and no extra room for people breaking these rules.

This came up recently and someone mentioned it may be a cultural thing, where delivery guys come from other countries where one does indeed ride against traffic as the rule. It is probably also just like when many people (self included) start riding in traffic for the first time, and feel safer being able to see cars heading towards them, unaware that they are causing many hazards in doing so (this probably accounts for most non-delivery salmon riders). finally, because these delivery guys are making a bazillion short trips all day long, I can understand why they don't want to go all the way around a block in the wrong direction (hey, I salmon every day on 1st avenue when I get off the QB bridge - but only for that one block under the bridge).

In any case, the bottom line is, the restaurants are responsible for riders obeying traffic rules. We need to speak up and put pressure on these businesses to take action, train their riders and follow regulations for commercial riding. whatever happened to those bike ID plates all restaurants were supposed to display? I see a few places uptown that have them, and Lenny's Bagels downtown, but that's about it. There's a million or so pizza and Chinese take out guys riding around without IDs, trying to force me into traffic, who I want to clothesline on a daily basis.

Mazaev

The thing with delivery guys is that it's usually just not worth it for them to go around to get to a destination, especially in Manhattan with all the one way avenues spread out quite far apart. What gets me more is the non delivery people who for some reason think it's the right thing to do. At least most of the delivery guys seem to understand how this works and do move out of the way.

Admittedly, I do remember having that train of thought, regarding seeing the cars coming when I puckered around on my old Mongoose back in the day. Recently a friend of mine got a rode bike and it took quite a bit of convincing to get him to ride properly. He though it was more dangerous then salmoning. Only when he started riding faster did he get the idea.

I usually hold my line when a salmon is incoming. Most of the time they do pull off into the space between parked cars and wait, but sometimes it's easier to just take a car lane and give them a dirty look and a head shake. Still, the general train of thought is that they're doing it wrong, let them take the damn risk. A lot of times they'll apologize.

One time I had a head on collision with one. Bent my stem and handlebar all out of whack on my road bike. Turned out to be some NYU kid who plead "broke" when confronted. Not to be an internet tough guy, but that was one of those times that I really, really had to hold myself back and just say screw it.

pgoat

I usually yell "Wrong <bleep>ing way, you <bleeping> <bleep>hole!" Not that that's much more creative

ibebikin

im with you not. i just move into the street. i think its safer than getting doored. i feel like drivers are well aware of their surroundings in nyc and are cognizant of the sometimes crazy driving of bikers. at least, this is my hope!

salmons, haha, i like that. yeah i dont hate on the delivery guys. i totally get it. if i were a delivery guy i would do it too.

Stacy

Ugh! I just used the Sixth Avenue lane a little while ago and got forced into traffic by some middle aged woman on a kick scooter. Some kid is going to get home from summer camp and be really pissed.

Riverside_Guy

Holding the line can have it's dangers. I've done a lot of sailing, so I know all the other guy weaving all over the place. Very hard to judge who is really burdened if the other guy is not staying on course. Any real sailor will stay on course and make only ONE correction if they need to.

So many years ago I am doing the CP loop. End of a long downhill, so I'm doing about 24. Kid on roller blades going opposite traffic. Long as he stays straight and I stay straight, we will pass each other. EXCEPT at the very last minute, he panics and turns right into me, blowing me off my bike. Hit the pavement, can't move, I'm thinking of a life in a wheelchair. I roll myself off the road and gradually see I can sit up a bit. Ambulance shows up, I get checked, very sore but not much blood. Pretty sure I actually eventually rode home. Only to find I have trauma to my sciatic nerve... spent the next week on my side in bed (couldn't even sit on a seat, shooting pains butt cheeks).

Point being, "fear the other guy, they can do the exact wrong/stupid/dumb thing."

roadiejorge 

Obviously the 6th Ave bike lane has gotten worse since I used to ride on it years back where the first thing I learned was the riding in traffic was much easier and often safer than the bike lane. If you're looking to ride hard and fats then in between lanes works nicely; I used to get so frustrated in the bike lane where I had to weave through rollerbladers, delivery men, double parked cars etc. that I refused to ride in it.

Terex

When in NY...

A few years ago I was roller blading with my 10 y/o daughter along the Hudson. Me, with kid in tow, staying to the right, came face to face with a jogger. Fore arm to jogger. I would not want to ride in the City. Tough to give fore arms from a bike.

MGtrack

That's still the best answer.

Lucky07

I hold my line or look & then move out into the traffic lane if the Salmon appears particularly unstable. This goes for both pedestrians and wrong-way bikers.

One guy that really gets on my nerves I see almost daily. He RUNS, in work clothes the wrong way down the 8th Avenue bike lane in NYC.

I've yelled "SIDEWALK, PLEASE!" to him dozens of times to no effect.

lukasz

Yesterday I nearly collided with some dork going the wrong way down Terrace Drive (across the park at 72nd) in the bike lane. I mean, people do this all the time but this guy was not only going the wrong way but staring off to the side the whole time. I've chilled out about bike salmon, but it angers me when you're not even paying attention to the road in front of you as you ride over GIANT WHITE ARROWS POINTING IN THE OTHER DIRECTION.

I also don't understand central park joggers running in the bike lane when there is a dedicated jogging lane which has the same exact road surface THREE FEET AWAY from the bike lane. WHY?! I'm going to start riding in the friggin' jogger's lane.