Steve B.

That plus some baseball cards on the spokes.

You'll find everyone made a left when you went right.

I haven't been riding at all, to get back on topic as I've been working every weekend since about early October and seemingly the weekdays I've been off the weathers been crappy. I think 2 Mt. Bike rides all fall. Hoping to get out over the holidays IF the weather stays nice - cold enough to freeze BP, or warm enough to road ride.

kaos joe

I did another dusk-into-night ride from BP up to the Tower loop, did that, then north and west on the blue dot trail to the Greenbelt, and back south. I failed to get lost on the Tower loop this time. The trails are still a bit soft in the usual places. A very nice sunset tonight.

A portion of the blue dot running alongside Northern Pkwy is marked hiking trail only. I wonder if that designation has the force of law, or did the GreenBelt club take it upon themselves to mark it as such?

Papa Tom

>>>>I wonder if that designation has the force of law, or did the GreenBelt club take it upon themselves to mark it as such?<<<<<

I don't want to sound like your killjoy, self-righteous Uncle Harry, but either way, bikes don't belong there.

kaos joe

Well, if it's just the Greenbelt trail conference deciding this for themselves, I'm going to disagree with ya there, Uncle Harry.

Steve B.

Why not ?. Because the hikers say so ?.

I know that in Trailview and in BP State Parks, there is abundant signage placed on "hiking" trails by the Greenbelt Trail Organization that are clearly marked as stating "No Bikes Allowed". I'm also aware that neither state park has as yet finished a master plan that officially designates which trails are for hikers only and which are open to everybody. So what the hiking groups have essentially done is the equivalent of marking territory with signs that potentially have no legal authority (yet).

It appears that some of the trails in the Mannetto Hills Park (MHP) have been signed as well ? (Blue Dot Trail) with additional trails that use the Northern Parkway corridor also ?. Again, this is wishful thinking on the part of the hikers.

Then there's the whole Greenbelt south of BP that is signed and yet has been used by mt. bikers for well over 30 years, so who's right ?.

Currently and as I understand it, CLIMB has deferred to the hikers in conceding some trails for hiking only, while gaining the "right" to mark other trails for mt. biking (In BP, TV and MHP), but having those trails considered "multi-use". In other words, the hikers get trails that only they can use (including no horses) but the mt. bikers are using trails that are open to everybody.

That kind of bothers me and is the reason I just ignore the hiking club signs.

Now part of my attitude stems from the fact that I've been riding some trails now designated as hiking only, for close to 30 years, with never a confrontation. Indeed I frequently am yielding to hikers and runners on the blue blazed trail in TV, when I know the hikers have their very own trail about 50 ft. east. So be it.

But don't lecture me on what trails to not ride. I ride carefully, yield to hikers and runners as needed and do not ride hiking only trails that I know have an adjacent bike trail that is designed to be more forgiving of the terrain (less erosion potential). But as far as I;m concerned, the "hiking only" signs are offensive and I'm going to simply ignore them.

Papa Tom

So you're saying the "Hiking Only" signs are NOT placed as the result of some compromise between CLIMB and the Greenbelt Trail Conference, whether a handshake deal or a legal document? If that's the case, I suppose it's all fair game. I thought kaosjoe was asking if he could sneak onto and get away with carving ruts in trails that had been identified, one way or another, as hiking trails. Sorry, but I'm around mountain bikers who brag all the time about how they disregard trail signs and startle hikers for fun. 'Guess I was lumping kaosjoe into that group. Perhaps it's the "kaos" part of the user name?

kaos joe

Hey Uncle Harry,

"kaos" happens to be my wife's initials. GOT THAT?

And no, I don't startle hikers, or horses, or easily frightened people like you, on purpose. Nor do I try to "get away with carving ruts in trails". GOT THAT TOO?

I'm a hiker, too. And something tells me I've spent a whole lot more nights offtrail in grizzly country than you have. And I didn't damage the environment up there, either.

As for the rest of the debate, Steve put it as well as it can be put. Thanks, Steve, see you out there.

Steve B.

I think some background on this subject is needed.

In ye olden days, mt. bikers on LI pretty much rode where they wanted, on whatever trails and roads existed, some being developed hiking trails. As mt. biking got more popular, conflicts with other user groups, namely hikers and equestrians but also hunters, developed. Some of this was just the other users being startled at the presence of bikes on trails where previously there hadn't been any. Some of the "other users" took the attitude of "bikes don't belong" and in some cases they were correct. As such, some area's that started to see an increase in biking were declared off limits to bikes, West Hills Suffolk County Park is a local example. That became OK as it's truly been a center of equestrian usage for decades and having bikes in this park would generate conflicts. CLIMB got an agreement with Suffolk that the county would let CLIMB build a mt. bike trail in Cathedral Pines and bikes would be banned from West Hills. Another location where biking was becoming a problem was on the Nassau Greenbelt, specifically north of the Northern State Parkway, where the original Greenbelt trail became badly eroded due to the poor design of the trail, this being compounded by the passage of bikes. Thus CLIMB was able to build an adjacent trail that was better sited and saw less erosion as well as reduced user conflicts.

As part of this "understanding" that was essentially a handshake agreement between the hikers and biker, additional area's were claimed by the hikers to be off limits to bikes. The Greenbelt north of Stillwell Preserve was one such, as is the Greenbelt south of the BP Parkway traffic circle in BP. The GB was never signed as being off-limits though, excepting the GB in the Massapequa Preserve. The GB trail north of Stillwell is very hilly and erosion is a problem if bikes use this current section. CLIMB chose not to develop a parallel trial here, instead developing the extensive system in Stillwell itself. South of the parkway traffic circle, as far as Boundary Ave. the GB has seen heavy usage by bikes for 30 years or so, with much of this trail being flat and having seen little additional erosion due to bikes. As well, the sight lines in this section (about 3.5 miles long) is actually better then the dual use GB north of BP State Park so conflicts (in my experiences) are few.

So the reasons for the so-called closure south of BP is seemingly that the hiking groups would like to ban bikes wherever they can, regardless of whether such usage is appropriate or not.

Thus they have installed signs that contain inappropriate phrasing, namely a ban on all mt. bikes, even though bikes can co-exist safely and with few issues.

@ Tom. Your post was very poorly phrased and very condescending. That's unusual for you. I saw nothing as posted by Joe that indicated he was "carving ruts in trails" or doing any damage (and knowing Joe I know as well that that's not how he rides). And knowing that you do little or no mt. biking, your comment "around mountain bikers who brag all the time about how they disregard trail signs and startle hikers for fun" sounds far-fetched. Who exactly are these people you associate with ?. Doesn't sound like you to be hanging around with such disrespectful people.

Can we put this to bed now ?

Papa Tom

>>>>@ Tom. Your post was very poorly phrased and very condescending. That's unusual for you. <<<<<

Yeah, that's the problem with trying to put things into words when you're not face-to-face with people.

I thought I had apologized to kaos for pre-judging him when I read the wording of HIS post, which SEEMED to be asking if he could get away with doing something that is generally accepted by mountain bikers as bad trail etiquette. Now I have a clearer understanding of how things have worked out there on the trails since I last rode them (and helped maintain them with CLIMB) around 1999. It seems there's a lot of ambiguity as far as trail markings.

As far as the mountain bikers I described, my next door neighbor is still out there on Stillwell every day of the year, and many of the younger guys I work with at the Town of Oyster Bay are avid MTBers. The absolute truth is that many of them are constantly bragging about getting away with things that CLIMB does not condone and things that are destructive to the trails. According to them, this seems to be the prevailing attitude. If it's not, then I'm glad to hear it, as I was around at the beginning of biking in Stillwell Woods and I would be sad to see the great strides CLIMB has made fall apart due to cyclists not respecting the rules.

Kaos, my comment about your screen name implying that you might be out to create "chaos" was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but because I am not a big fan of smileys and winkies, I failed to communicate this. On other groups, members with names that include the words "anarchy" or "outlaw" are usually either trolls or guys who are constantly posting threads about riding on the sidewalk, against traffic, or three-abreast on a two-lane road and telling people to f-off. I've seen your posts before, and I know you are not one of them. My apology.

All this said, there comes a time of year when my bike is put away and I am bored and frustrated and I look for ANY thread to participate in, even if I have no business being there. When I see this happening - or somebody points it out to me (as in the case of THIS thread) - I know it's time to un-bookmark the cycling forums and take a breather for a few months. I think the time has come!

Happy Holidays and Happy New Year to all.

GlennR

Took the mountain bike to Stillwell for the first time. Did the "easy" trail first and it was fun but easy. So i took the intermediate next and the first half was not took hard. But I then had some rocky descents and quickly found that riding a "too large" bike caused issues with footing. The back half had some steep climbs with steps and some steep descents with gravel so I had to walk a few. Went out for a third time and took the "easy" again.

On the way home I decided to go around Bethpage once since the weather was just so nice. Met a really nice guy that gave me some tips and directions since some of the trails are not marked at the southern end.

t was a great day, now I just have to clean all the mud off the bike.

kaos joe

Glad to hear you are enjoying a new facet of the sport.

Steve B.

Went for a BP road ride yesterday with 2 buddies. A mile from the end, made a left onto York from Haypath just as a car pulled out of a driveway, the driver stopping in our lane. Rider 1 went right, the 2nd went left and I went straight, colliding with my buddy Kevin - rider 2.

I went down, Kevin didn't. Landed on my right side, now have bruised R ribs and a very sore and swollen R knee. Hoping nothing major, been icing all yesterday and this morning. Feeling a tad better today, though still cannot twist the knee without sharp shooting pain and only capable of about 20 percent bending. Swollen as all hell and cut up all over the knee cap. I have, FWIW, banged up my knees so often my wife calls me Wounded Knee. This one's the worst though.

Last at ride of the year for me, looks like.

GlennR

Sux Steve.. feel better.

kaos joe

Sorry to hear about your fall, Steve. Better in December than in May, at least. Feel better.

GlennR

Freudian ?

GlennR

Too nice to sit inside, so I loaded the MTB into the car and drove to Bethpage. 2 loops in 60 minutes and 18 miles was awesome.

kaos joe

2015 was rung in properly with a couple of hours exploring MTB trails in Edgewood preserve. I had no idea that tract was as big as it is. The new red-blazed trail kicked our collective butts, and some walking was done, but no blood spilled.

kaos joe

I see plenty of tracks in the snow, so I know I'm not the only one riding! I've done a number of evening/night MTB rides, without getting lost. I've always liked being out of doors as the sun goes down. I went out during the snowfall, also a favorite thing, and out with a small group this morning. There is just the right amount of snow to make it interesting but not a major pain. I don't think much road riding is being done the past few days......

Billy1111

anyone know any good stretches of road that are low traffic that can ride when my normal path is icey and snow covered? i just would like to get 20 miles in. closer to queens would be preferred

Steve B.

The LIE service road is the typical winter go-to route. It has a decent shoulder that gets plowed, sees the sun so tends to be a bit drier road surface and isn't busy on weekends.

GlennR

I picked up my new bike Monday so I took it for its maiden rise yesterday. Not too cold, and had a great ride.

kaos joe

Ahh, today was one of those in-between days, a tad cool for the road, but too warm to freeze the muddy spots on the trails. I've been doing evening/night trail rides, so today opted to get back on the road for 36 miles. Not bad, but feet got cold....I'm finding that my fleece socks are not as warm as good old wool.

Billy1111

well if the blizzard comes shore pkwy would be screwed till spring i guess....do u know around what exits is good?

Billy1111

LOL are u the guy on the brickwell site with that *****in emonda!? sweet ride buddy!

GlennR

Yes, that's me.