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View Poll Results: Which 36h rear wheel should I buy?

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  • Jitensha - $150 to $200

    0 0%
  • Rivendell touring wheel - $175

    1 20.00%
  • Missing Link Shimano hubbed, machine built - $75

    2 40.00%
  • Montanot Velo - $$$$$

    1 20.00%
  • Something Else?

    1 20.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #1
    Senior Member jbrams's Avatar
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    Jitensha vs. Rivendell - where to have wheel built?

    Summary: Should I have a 36h rear wheel built at Jitensha Studio (under $200) or buy the Touring wheel built at Rivendell ($175)?

    Details: I'm a cylde (at 275lbs) and ride a Jamis Coda Sport (2005) with 32h machine built wheels (Alexrims Ace18 rims, Shimano 2200 hubs). After 250 miles I got a very loose spoke and though the rear wheel is still ridable, a different spoke now must be completely loose to keep the wheel straight (because the rim is damaged). This will work for a while (LBS tuned and confirmed okay to ride), but it places me in the market for a new rear wheel in the near future. My budget is around $150, though less is better. I'm specifically looking at 36 spoke (36h, 36 hole) wheels with more substantial spokes. Something like a touring wheel as suggested on the Clydesdale subforum.

    (1) Jitensha could build up something for between $150 to $200 that would fit the bill. He's close by and a hip fella (just love drooling at his frames).
    (2) Rivendell has a touring wheel for $175they hand build with a shimano 36h hub, 14/15/14 spokes (what this gauge means I'm unsure, assume it's a bit thicker than normal) with Velocity Synergy 36h unmachined rims (a Rivendell special)
    (3) The Missing Link has a machine build 36h shimano hubbed wheel for $75 that they'll hand finish and stand behind in case of problems. They're also very close by and friendly.
    (4) Montano Velo is also nearby, but likely outta my price range. (misspelled in poll, can't edit it, sorry)
    (5) Something else?
    Please let me know what you suggest is the best place to have the wheel built if I go that way, or if you think I should just get the $75 wheel at the Missing Link and go with their service to back it up (though I'm sure the others would also provide free service on the wheels)?

    Thanks again!

  2. #2
    The illusion of speed Nullius's Avatar
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    If you want a good wheel I'd steer clear of the machine built one. I voted for Montano Velo just because Jason over there built me a wheel that has taken some incredible abuse without any complaint. I've heard good things about the wheelbuilding at Jitensha, but that guys never been very friendly to me personally, so I would give my vote to Montano Velo.

    Also, just a note on the spokes. 14/15/14 is pretty standard on the ends, and actually thinner in the middle. The differential thicknesses allows the spokes to flex more while keeping the ends thicker and stronger, therefore making a wheel which is stronger overall compared to one built with straight gauge spokes.

  3. #3
    Senior Member jbrams's Avatar
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    Thanks Nullius, the bit about 14/15/14 makes sense based on what I've read on Sheldon Brown.
    Do you recall what your wheel cost at Montano Velo? Was it something similar? Did they offer to adjust and retension it if it came out or true in a certain time (1 month, 6 months, a year)?

    Anyone else with a thought on where to get the wheel?

  4. #4
    The illusion of speed Nullius's Avatar
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    The building cost is, I believe, $40 per wheel, plus materials. The charge .80 for straight gauge spokes, and 1.00 for double-butted (I've been buying a lot of spokes their lately because I'm building my own wheels now). The wheels come a lifetime truing warranty, however my wheel is still true after over a year of Oakland potholes and jumping curbs.

  5. #5
    Radfahrer Rincewind8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrams
    they hand build with a shimano 36h hub, 14/15/14 spokes (what this gauge means I'm unsure, assume it's a bit thicker than normal) with Velocity Synergy 36h unmachined rims (a Rivendell special)
    (3) The Missing Link has a machine build 36h shimano hubbed wheel for $75 that they'll hand finish and stand behind in case of problems. They're also very close by and friendly.
    14/15/14 means it's a double butted spoke. 14 gauge (2mm) at the ends and 15 gauge (1.8mm) in the middle.
    If you use rim brakes, I would recommend machined rims. Machined rims basically means the brake surface is machined and therefore somewhat rougher. That makes for better braking with the new rim. Unmachined rims take some time until they develop a rougher surface.

    IMHO a machine build (or machine laced) wheel that is hand finished is just as good as a hand built wheel, but others might have a different opinion on that.

    On the tandem (team weight is a little lower than 300lb) we have a 32 spokes wheel in the front and it has held up fine so far. It is a machine built, hand finished wheel. After the initial trueing/stress reliefing I didn't even have to true it once.
    Last edited by Rincewind8; 05-08-07 at 01:04 PM.
    TH 1.81 (133kg*62)

  6. #6
    It's MY mountain DiabloScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind8
    14/15/14 means it's a double butted spoke. 14 gauge (1.628mm) at the ends and 15 gauge (1.45mm) in the middle.
    Those look like sheet metal gauge thicknesses. The unit of gauge thickness is one of the most unstandardized measurements around.

    For spokes:
    14g is 2.0mm and
    15g is 1.8mm thick
    http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/

  7. #7
    Radfahrer Rincewind8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloScott
    Those look like sheet metal gauge thicknesses. The unit of gauge thickness is one of the most unstandardized measurements around.

    For spokes:
    14g is 2.0mm and
    15g is 1.8mm thick
    Sorry about that. I corrected it in the original post.
    TH 1.81 (133kg*62)

  8. #8
    Senior Member jbrams's Avatar
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    So I called Montano Velo, they suggested a $225 setup:
    Hub - Shimano 105 (FH-5600 ... though wouldn't I need the 5501 to fit an 8-speed?) ($70 there, $58 shippted online)
    Rim - Velocity Dyad touring rim ($70 there, $55 shipped online)
    Spokes - double butted ($28 ... so a little less than $1 each).

    That seems like a great wheel, but $225 is over my budget (even if purchase parts online only save $27 ... not worth hating on LBS) compared with the $175 wheel from Rivendell. But the Rivendell wheel would require a cold set of my frame (130mm to 135mm ... no biggie, but still).

    They also suggested other rims - Mavic t719 (bit more $) or Sun rhyno lites (cheaper, but not much ... though $45 shipped online).

    Any other thoughts? Glad for all your advice!

  9. #9
    It's MY mountain DiabloScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrams
    So I called Montano Velo, they suggested a $225 setup:
    Hub - Shimano 105 (FH-5600 ... though wouldn't I need the 5501 to fit an 8-speed?) ($70 there, $58 shippted online)
    Rim - Velocity Dyad touring rim ($70 there, $55 shipped online)
    Spokes - double butted ($28 ... so a little less than $1 each).

    That seems like a great wheel, but $225 is over my budget (even if purchase parts online only save $27 ... not worth hating on LBS) compared with the $175 wheel from Rivendell. But the Rivendell wheel would require a cold set of my frame (130mm to 135mm ... no biggie, but still).

    They also suggested other rims - Mavic t719 (bit more $) or Sun rhyno lites (cheaper, but not much ... though $45 shipped online).

    Any other thoughts? Glad for all your advice!
    Big guys are hard on hubs, I advise getting something beefier than 105. A touring hub would be ideal, Rivendell is offering an MTB hub but maybe they've got a 130mm one in their box of orphans. Worth a call maybe.
    http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/

  10. #10
    Senior Member jbrams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloScott
    A touring hub would be ideal, Rivendell is offering an MTB hub but maybe they've got a 130mm one in their box of orphans. Worth a call maybe.
    This is the reason I'm leaning toward the Rivendell wheel ... I did call and they didn't mention any orphaned 130mm hubs, but I could check again. I don't think there are many/any 130mm touring hubs either way ... they get all the way up to 160, many have 145, 135 seems to be minimum basically. Cold setting the frame out to 135 from 130 doesn't seem to stressful on the frame (has to be way within standard limits ... 2.5mm on either side ... a quarter of a centimeter ... about as much space as this hyphen - )

    Do you know of any reasonably priced (I guess under $70) 130mm touring hubs?

  11. #11
    The illusion of speed Nullius's Avatar
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    Generally most touring hubs are going to be 135 or longer, since the wider the hub, the less dish there is, and therefore the stronger it will be. If you're planning on this being the last wheelset you'll want for this bike, then there's no reason that you shouldn't cold set it up to 135, though if you do it at a shop it's going to cost you. I think whether or not you need something stronger than 105 will depend on what you're using the wheelset for. Are you going to be doing any off road riding or loaded touring? 105 is probably going to be fine if you're just doing commuting/road riding.

    Quote Originally Posted by jbrams
    This is the reason I'm leaning toward the Rivendell wheel ... I did call and they didn't mention any orphaned 130mm hubs, but I could check again. I don't think there are many/any 130mm touring hubs either way ... they get all the way up to 160, many have 145, 135 seems to be minimum basically. Cold setting the frame out to 135 from 130 doesn't seem to stressful on the frame (has to be way within standard limits ... 2.5mm on either side ... a quarter of a centimeter ... about as much space as this hyphen - )

    Do you know of any reasonably priced (I guess under $70) 130mm touring hubs?

  12. #12
    Senior Member jbrams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullius
    Generally most touring hubs are going to be 135 or longer, since the wider the hub, the less dish there is, and therefore the stronger it will be. If you're planning on this being the last wheelset you'll want for this bike, then there's no reason that you shouldn't cold set it up to 135, though if you do it at a shop it's going to cost you.
    Well, I'd like it to be the last wheelset for the bike ... any replacement would also be wider than 130mm regardless because weight isn't a concern for me ... if I reach my goal weight then the last problem I'll have is that I can't buy a 25g lighter hub =)
    I think whether or not you need something stronger than 105 will depend on what you're using the wheelset for. Are you going to be doing any off road riding or loaded touring? 105 is probably going to be fine if you're just doing commuting/road riding.
    Well, no loaded touring planned, but my body is a heavy as many loaded touring bikes at 275lbs. Am I right to guess that the advantage of the 105 over the LX is basically weight? They're both equally water resistant, looks don't matter, and both will fit my cassette ... so it that it? I agree that the 105 would probably be fine, but if for less money the LX is stronger that's the way I've got to go.

    Please keep any advice coming!

  13. #13
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    I'd go with the Missing Link,they'll stand behind it,you can have it tuned after a week or so.I've never had a problem with a Sun,Araya or Weinman rim.I haven't problems in general with wheels.I've weighed from 180 to 220 mostly.I weighed 368 at one point,rode a Giant hybrid,I'd get the spokes checked frequently.

  14. #14
    Senior Member jbrams's Avatar
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    I voted for old and new on the poll ... it does seem like the economical route to go with the Missing Link wheel ... a fella there said it was a good idea to see if that was all I needed. But I don't want to find out that I need something more and be out $75 extra for a wheel that wasn't up to the job. Oy.

  15. #15
    It's MY mountain DiabloScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrams
    Well, no loaded touring planned, but my body is a heavy as many loaded touring bikes at 275lbs. Am I right to guess that the advantage of the 105 over the LX is basically weight? They're both equally water resistant, looks don't matter, and both will fit my cassette ... so it that it? I agree that the 105 would probably be fine, but if for less money the LX is stronger that's the way I've got to go.

    Please keep any advice coming!
    You said 8-speed shifting system right? The LX would be fine for that, would prohibit an upgrade to 10 speed in the future though.

    Phil Wood or Hugi would certainly blow your budget but if you could find a used 130mm hub it would make a nice rebuild. Otherwise just moving up from 105 to Ultegra will buy you much longer bearing life.
    http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/

  16. #16
    Senior Member jbrams's Avatar
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    Yeah, I've got an 8 speed rear cassette. LX seems like the way to go ... this bike doesn't deserve ultegra, Phil Wood would be wacky (and may even make it worth stealing!). If you see any 130mm, 36h phil wood hubs for sale under $100 I'd grab them, but I just can't see that happening =)

    Trend here seems to be between Rivendell or Missing Link ... any other thoughts?

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