Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > > >

Northern California Northern California

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-24-07, 12:12 AM   #1
UmneyDurak
RacingBear
Thread Starter
 
UmneyDurak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NorCal
Bikes:
Posts: 8,608
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
I hate local news

Saw ABC7 "news" today. What a bunch of B.S. Very negative towards cyclists, and using data which I think is flawed.
UmneyDurak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-07, 06:14 AM   #2
spingineer
Spinning like a gerbel
 
spingineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Silicon Valley
Bikes: Seven
Posts: 7,952
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Can you elaborate a little more. What was the context of their story?
__________________
I'm in it to finish it.

My Cycling Blog
spingineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-07, 09:11 AM   #3
UmneyDurak
RacingBear
Thread Starter
 
UmneyDurak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NorCal
Bikes:
Posts: 8,608
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by spingineer
Can you elaborate a little more. What was the context of their story?
Well with couple CM incidents they decided to do a show about cyclists and who is really at fault. They spent most of the segment showing this bike messenger riding against traffic then some interviews with him, but by that point he wasn't all that credible because of the footage. They used him as the representative for all the cyclists. Then they proceeded to use CHP database to tell that cyclists are at fault 70% of the time and three times more likely to be drunk while cycling. Of course they showed the rep from bike coalition who mentioned that statistics are not very accurate because of under reporting and CHP officers not always understanding the situation, thus blaming cyclist when in fact motorist was at fault. She just sounded very defensive in light of previous footage and the commentary. So whole thing was basically playing fiddle to the masses that are against cyclists. Of course adds like "cyclists are at fault" that promoted this piece of "journalism" didn't help either.
UmneyDurak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-07, 09:15 AM   #4
uspspro
Tandem Mountain Climber
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Mateo, CA
Bikes: Calfee Tandem, Custom CAAD9 BB30, 90 Santana Arriva Tandem, 02 CAAD4 errand bike, 87 Cannondale "Black Lightning"
Posts: 4,101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Great thing to put into the minds of the motorists... Now if they hit me, the news told them it was my fault
uspspro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-07, 09:25 AM   #5
BlastRadius
Direct Hit Not Required
 
BlastRadius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Bruno, CA
Bikes: Leopard DC1, Ridley X-Fire, GT Zaskar 9r
Posts: 6,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I missed the TV segment so here's the web story. The whole thing is infuriating to read.
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...eam&id=5329449
http://iteamblog.abc7news.com/2007/0...vs_cars_c.html
BlastRadius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-07, 10:28 AM   #6
waterboy
Senior Member
 
waterboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NorCal
Bikes: Trek 5.2, Rocky mountain Hammer, K2 Cruiser
Posts: 169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What chapped my hide was that they only spoke with one cyclist- a messenger. I am sorry, but messengers are not representative of all cyclists. Unfortunately messengers are often the worst form of cyclists. They are under time pressures and are among the most likely to violate traffic laws. As a daily commuter I am very concerned about the one sided journalism. It would have been nice if they had presented a bit more broad picture of the cycling community.

The other stat I found surprising was the per capita incendent rate in Marin being the highest.
waterboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-07, 03:05 PM   #7
spingineer
Spinning like a gerbel
 
spingineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Silicon Valley
Bikes: Seven
Posts: 7,952
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterboy
What chapped my hide was that they only spoke with one cyclist- a messenger. I am sorry, but messengers are not representative of all cyclists. Unfortunately messengers are often the worst form of cyclists. They are under time pressures and are among the most likely to violate traffic laws. As a daily commuter I am very concerned about the one sided journalism. It would have been nice if they had presented a bit more broad picture of the cycling community.

The other stat I found surprising was the per capita incendent rate in Marin being the highest.
It's not surprising. On the one hand, they did a big story on bike to work day. Then, they turn around and do this. I think what really hurts the cycling community is the Critical Mass. This event tends to escalate the animosity between motorists and cyclists. IMHO, Critical Mass does an injustice to us.
__________________
I'm in it to finish it.

My Cycling Blog
spingineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-07, 08:05 PM   #8
Dchiefransom
Senior Member
 
Dchiefransom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Newark, CA. San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes:
Posts: 6,205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Is this the same CHP that lobbied against and defeated a bill to make all bike lanes be built outside the door zone of parked cars? The same CHP that doesn't do much when a cyclist is run over and the motor vehicle operator is obviously at fault?
__________________
Silver Eagle Pilot
Dchiefransom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-07, 08:42 PM   #9
BlastRadius
Direct Hit Not Required
 
BlastRadius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Bruno, CA
Bikes: Leopard DC1, Ridley X-Fire, GT Zaskar 9r
Posts: 6,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Why do the CHP have any say about city streets? Is it even their jurisdiction?
BlastRadius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-07, 10:03 PM   #10
Dchiefransom
Senior Member
 
Dchiefransom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Newark, CA. San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes:
Posts: 6,205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlastRadius
Why do the CHP have any say about city streets? Is it even their jurisdiction?
If the Legislators have any questions about the Vehicle Code, they ask the CHP.
__________________
Silver Eagle Pilot
Dchiefransom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-07, 11:29 PM   #11
Rocke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
"Unfortunately messengers are often the worst form of cyclists."

It is hard to keep from getting emotional about our passion, however generalizing about our
brothers and sisters who make a living on their bikes doesn’t help the discussion.

I ride with several messengers here in the SF area, and I find that I really like the majority, with a couple being very special to me. (They are polite and courteous and take things as they come.) There are a very few I choose not to ride with if they are part of the group because they are vulgar and insulting to drivers, pedestrians and other riders. It is about the same if I meet a bunch of folks at a party… some folks just feel more entitled than others, not just bike riders, and not just Messengers.

If I sit and have a cup of coffee in the city and watch the bikes, I find there are plenty of folks showing a lot of respect, however we have a long way to go before a reporter can’t in a matter of moments find someone doing something shamelessly Boneheaded on a bike.

Simply encouraging cyclists to follow the basic rules and laws, wearing helmets, getting off side walks; also, teaching folks to look in car mirrors, brake lights, and check the direction wheels are turning or pointing helps shed a little light on the mind of a driver and helps avoid being in the right of way but annoying or hurt none the less. A little respect for others would diminish much antipathy from the non-riding public.

The best rider I know, rides for GodSpeed Messenger service, and is a credit to cyclists on any level. Blessings.
Rocke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 10:56 AM   #12
1jacktripper
Senior Member
 
1jacktripper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 787
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocke
"Unfortunately messengers are often the worst form of cyclists."

It is hard to keep from getting emotional about our passion, however generalizing about our
brothers and sisters who make a living on their bikes doesn’t help the discussion.

I ride with several messengers here in the SF area, and I find that I really like the majority, with a couple being very special to me. (They are polite and courteous and take things as they come.) There are a very few I choose not to ride with if they are part of the group because they are vulgar and insulting to drivers, pedestrians and other riders. It is about the same if I meet a bunch of folks at a party… some folks just feel more entitled than others, not just bike riders, and not just Messengers.

If I sit and have a cup of coffee in the city and watch the bikes, I find there are plenty of folks showing a lot of respect, however we have a long way to go before a reporter can’t in a matter of moments find someone doing something shamelessly Boneheaded on a bike.

Simply encouraging cyclists to follow the basic rules and laws, wearing helmets, getting off side walks; also, teaching folks to look in car mirrors, brake lights, and check the direction wheels are turning or pointing helps shed a little light on the mind of a driver and helps avoid being in the right of way but annoying or hurt none the less. A little respect for others would diminish much antipathy from the non-riding public.

The best rider I know, rides for GodSpeed Messenger service, and is a credit to cyclists on any level. Blessings.

well-written. cyclists come in all flavors, just like motorists...and journalists. until these 3 groups of people can come to an "understanding", let's do our own parts in helping to promote the understanding: ride safely, drive safely, and report/write safely. ommmm.....
1jacktripper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 02:35 PM   #13
ifox
100 kW :)
 
ifox's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Bikes: '08 Specialized Tarmac SL2
Posts: 401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
speaking of bad and sad news: http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_5987878
ifox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 03:57 PM   #14
uspspro
Tandem Mountain Climber
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Mateo, CA
Bikes: Calfee Tandem, Custom CAAD9 BB30, 90 Santana Arriva Tandem, 02 CAAD4 errand bike, 87 Cannondale "Black Lightning"
Posts: 4,101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here is the comment I made yesterday

Quote:

This is garbage journalism, with the potential to incite a negative opinion of cyclist amongst the motorists whom have seen this report.


There are many problems with this report that make it bad journalism:


1) The motive and resulting effect on the attitudes of the readers. You obviously did not think about how this is going to negatively impact the cyclist-motorist relationship out on the road, where I could be killed. This relationship is already fragile enough due to the hooligans in Critical Mass. Why make it any worse?


2) Reversing the shift towards alternative modes of transportation. During a time when cycling should be encouraged, you are discouraging it.

3) Data is invalid. Until the police can treat all bike-related accidents the same way that they treat car accidents, the data will not be valid. Sometimes the police don't even take reports. Either that, or they are not treated as seriously as an auto accident.


4) Lack of discussion regarding why there are these problems, and what can be done to fix them. Obviously there are reasons, besides blatant disregard for the law, that cyclists may occasionally break some rules. The transportation networks are designed to accommodate cars. To motorists, the cyclists are just "in the way." This is a topic which should have been included in this type of discussion.

Bottom line is: This report is shallow, and does nothing other than point a finger at someone. It does so with unreliable and /or incomplete data. Unfortunately, many readers will not look past this.


Thanks a bunch ABC, for being part of the problem instead of the solution.
uspspro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 05:49 PM   #15
johnny99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Northern California
Bikes:
Posts: 10,632
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifox
More information on this: http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/s...ry.php?id=5122

Isn't this the 3rd (or more) bicyclist killed by an elderly driver in Woodside within the last couple of years? A Foothill College professor was killed on Skyline last summer. A elementary school teacher was killed on Woodside Road a year or two ago.
johnny99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 07:03 PM   #16
Dchiefransom
Senior Member
 
Dchiefransom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Newark, CA. San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes:
Posts: 6,205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
That's part of the Portola Loop ride. Another cyclist was hit by a drunk driver near that same overpass.
__________________
Silver Eagle Pilot
Dchiefransom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 07:14 PM   #17
johnny99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Northern California
Bikes:
Posts: 10,632
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dchiefransom
That's part of the Portola Loop ride. Another cyclist was hit by a drunk driver near that same overpass.
Do you have any more details on this, like the date or name of the victim? Thanks.
johnny99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 07:42 PM   #18
spingineer
Spinning like a gerbel
 
spingineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Silicon Valley
Bikes: Seven
Posts: 7,952
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny99
Do you have any more details on this, like the date or name of the victim? Thanks.
He might be referring to John Peckham, who was riding on Old Page Mill Rd, which is very hard to get to, unless you specifically are trying to get on this road. He rode with Webcor, and was doing a lunch time training ride when a drunk driver ran him over. Can't remember the exact date, but it was about 2 years ago (I think).
__________________
I'm in it to finish it.

My Cycling Blog
spingineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-07, 10:50 PM   #19
SteveE
Veni, Vidi, Vomiti
 
SteveE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Republic of Anaerobia
Bikes: Serotta Legend Ti, Romani Columbus SL, Soma Doublecross
Posts: 3,582
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is in the same area as the incident in which MaryAnn Levenson was struck and run over by a 76-yr old Walter Fred Sorenson in December of last year.
SteveE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-07, 08:32 PM   #20
Dchiefransom
Senior Member
 
Dchiefransom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Newark, CA. San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes:
Posts: 6,205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveE
This is in the same area as the incident in which MaryAnn Levenson was struck and run over by a 76-yr old Walter Fred Sorenson in December of last year.
That's what I was referring to. The drunk driver was in the left of two lanes, and went off the road to the right, running her over and draggin her. The bike lane in that area is sometimes wide enough for 4 riders to ride side by side in.
__________________
Silver Eagle Pilot
Dchiefransom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-07, 10:23 PM   #21
Red Rider
Don't mince words
 
Red Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Vacaville, CA
Bikes: '16 BH Quartz, Co-Motion Roadster "Blue Jay"; Fuji D6 TT bike
Posts: 6,955
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
How is Mary Ann? What's the status of the case? I haven't read anything here to bring us up to date.

Naturally I hope she's better & the driver is incarcerated forEVer.
Red Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-07, 10:59 PM   #22
SteveE
Veni, Vidi, Vomiti
 
SteveE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Republic of Anaerobia
Bikes: Serotta Legend Ti, Romani Columbus SL, Soma Doublecross
Posts: 3,582
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
MaryAnn is riding again. She did the Beat The Clock Time Trial earlier this year. I don't know if she rode it again today. There was an arraignment in early Maywhen the driver pleaded not guilty and the trial is scheduled for September 4th.
SteveE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-07, 01:21 PM   #23
Jym Dyer
Member
 
Jym Dyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Question "Authorities"

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlastRadius
Why do the CHP have any say about city streets? Is it even their jurisdiction?
=v= Yeah, that's exactly my complaint. The data is compiled from police reports all around the state, and the CHP guy simply asserts that they were all biased and done properly, but there's no way he could actually know that. The cited SFBC study is based on testimony that some were <i>not</i> unbiased and <i>not</i> done properly, but they let this guy rebut that with nothing but his authority and his say-so. Indeed, the ABC7 web page itself links to an earlier story about an incident where police refused to take any testimony from cyclists on the scene!
Jym Dyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-07, 08:06 PM   #24
MaryAnn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by spingineer
He might be referring to John Peckham, who was riding on Old Page Mill Rd, which is very hard to get to, unless you specifically are trying to get on this road. He rode with Webcor, and was doing a lunch time training ride when a drunk driver ran him over. Can't remember the exact date, but it was about 2 years ago (I think).
Hi, I'm John's mother. The date was September 8, 2006 which was about 9 months ago. The guy who killed my son was high on crystal meth and got 19 years for my son's death. Justice? Not on your life. Justice would have been that guy killing himself BEFORE he ever got to my son without harming anyone else. Just to set the story straight. Thanks,
M.A.Parker
MaryAnn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-07, 12:30 AM   #25
terrymorse
Climbing Fool
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Posts: 3,019
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dchiefransom
That's part of the Portola Loop ride. Another cyclist was hit by a drunk driver near that same overpass.
The latest killing wasn't even near the I-280 overpass. If you know Sand Hill Road, the collision was before the top of the hill you must climb before descending to the overpass. I saw police spray paint markings on the road and one bouquet of flowers on the side of the road a couple of days afterwards.

Hit from behind, that sucks.
__________________
Managing Director, Undiscovered Country Tours
terrymorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:03 AM.