Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > > >

Northern California Northern California

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-19-08, 09:10 AM   #1
LanceMach
PopCycle
Thread Starter
 
LanceMach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SF East Bay
Bikes: Bianchi Eros (06), Bianch Boardwalk (nice old steel commuter), Gary Fisher Gitche Gumee, Trek "Antelope" 820 (ancient!)
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
New laws for bikes in the works?

The MTC is studying the possiblity of changing state law to allow bikes to coast through stop signs and to allow us to ride through red lights after a brief stop. I tend to be very safe during my commute, but I can see how this could be a good thing if used judiciously...

http://www.ktvu.com/news/16649875/detail.html
LanceMach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-08, 09:14 AM   #2
genejockey
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Bikes: Battaglin MAX, Chorus kit; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, 7410 Dura Ace
Posts: 1,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rolling through stop signs, MAYBE, because that's what 85% of drivers do. But riding through red lights? No way.
genejockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-08, 09:39 AM   #3
alainp
Senior Member
 
alainp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF East Bay
Bikes: '07 Look 585 Ultra, '07 Trek Madone SL 5.2, '06 Marin Pine Mountain MTB, '94 Everest Altitude MTB
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Rolling through stop signs, MAYBE, because that's what 85% of drivers do. But riding through red lights? No way.
According to the article, you would have to stop first. So, you would be able to roll past stop signs, but you would stop at red lights (similar to stop signs currently).
alainp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-08, 09:41 AM   #4
knotty
Lost in Nostalgia
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Fog City
Bikes:
Posts: 651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Rolling through stop signs, MAYBE, because that's what 85% of drivers do. But riding through red lights? No way.
I agree. But, if there are obviously no cars in sight at the red, maybe going through can be OK.

knotty
knotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-08, 10:15 AM   #5
genejockey
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Bikes: Battaglin MAX, Chorus kit; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, 7410 Dura Ace
Posts: 1,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Call me alarmist, but I foresee a bloodbath if the red light thing goes through. Properly estimating the speed of a car appoaching an intersection is difficult. Then combine that with the occasional failure to get your cleat into the pedal, or just not getting across the intersection fast enough.

I've seen plenty of drivers take the "right turn on read after stop, if safe" and turn it into "right turn on red with no stop and not looking."

Of course, if it's designed more for those lights where the sensors don't pick up bikes, and there's absolutely no traffic approaching, MAYBE.
genejockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-08, 10:18 AM   #6
mayukawa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 910
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Pedestrians are not supposed to cross on a red, even after they stop briefly...are cyclists special or something? And we expect drivers to treat us with any respect...
mayukawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-08, 10:41 AM   #7
knotty
Lost in Nostalgia
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Fog City
Bikes:
Posts: 651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If that law passes, they better publish it via TV, radio and newsprint far and wide for a good while so everyone knows about it, otherwise there will be all kinds of trouble, especially the red light bit.

knotty
knotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-08, 10:44 AM   #8
DiabloScott
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Bikes:
Posts: 6,785
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genejockey View Post

Of course, if it's designed more for those lights where the sensors don't pick up bikes, and there's absolutely no traffic approaching, MAYBE.
I'd love to see a cop ticket me for this. If the sensor doesn't sense you, then it's not functional and you have every right to run the red light when a safe opportunity to do so presents itself.

Legislating "rolling stops" for bikes is iffy, stop and go on red lights is a bad idea.
DiabloScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-08, 11:54 AM   #9
Pizza Man
Racing iS my Training
 
Pizza Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Bikes: 07 Bianchi San Jose, 08 Tarmac SL2, 05 Cervelo P3
Posts: 1,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We should be able to go through a red light after stopping IF no one is coming.
Just like we should be able to roll through a stop sign if there is no cross traffic.
Obviously we should slow down enough to be able to stop in case there is a pedestrian, or a car comes up on a cross street.

In some of the places I ride with very little traffic, I often come up to a red light, stop and look around. If no one is around in any direction as far as I can see, I proceed. I think anyone who sits around waiting for a light that isn't going to change (until a car comes and trips the sensor) is an idiot.

I don't always follow the letter of the law, but I always ride safely.
Pizza Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-08, 02:37 PM   #10
Ty.S
Shameless Fred
 
Ty.S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Jose
Bikes: 07' Trek 2100 / 05' Trek Fuel 80
Posts: 533
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This could go either way, however I don't think its a way to promote people riding their bikes. Not to mention this alters the debate of "share the road". Share the road is also Share the laws, and special treatment just isn't my kind of thing. I'm with Pizza on the lights and stopsigns. I purposely ride where traffic is so remote that I see more animals then people. I'd never cross a light or intersection that had a vehicle in the area, but I've rolled plenty of T-intersection stop signs and lights, at least the ones I could see had 0 activity.

I don't like the modified law, I think it will cause more trouble then its worth. It also seemed so vague, whos' to say what constitues a "rolling stop". So tickets will probably fly at the normal rate if not increase.
Ty.S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-08, 05:23 PM   #11
sweetnsourbkr
Senior Member
 
sweetnsourbkr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Leandro, CA
Bikes: Look 585, Co-Motion Periscope 700
Posts: 945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Bad idea.
sweetnsourbkr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-08, 05:59 PM   #12
bigredgrad01
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is stupid. They should just not enforce existing laws on bikers, not change them.
bigredgrad01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-08, 08:01 PM   #13
reidconti
Carbon compliance tester
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 581
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
I'd love to see a cop ticket me for this. If the sensor doesn't sense you, then it's not functional and you have every right to run the red light when a safe opportunity to do so presents itself.
I already do this. I'd do it in my car if it weren't for the fact that a vehicle is much more conspicuous, harder to sneak away from the cops in, and I'd be less likely to talk my way out of the ticket it in the car.

On the bike, I look around, and if it's clear, I go. Since I'm looking, I know there are no cops. If a cop magically sees me just as I'm crossing, who is he to disagree with me that the sensor didn't pick me up?

Though I guess if it were legal I'd be more likely to "cut it close" rather than doing it when I know there's noone to anger.

Fortunately most police in CA don't seem to waste their time on stupid things. Though I wish they would "waste their time" on a-holes who don't signal
reidconti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-08, 09:36 AM   #14
Pizza Man
Racing iS my Training
 
Pizza Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Bikes: 07 Bianchi San Jose, 08 Tarmac SL2, 05 Cervelo P3
Posts: 1,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by reidconti View Post

Fortunately most police in CA don't seem to waste their time on stupid things. Though I wish they would "waste their time" on a-holes who don't signal
I agree. In places like SF, cops have better things to worry about than cyclists rolling through stop signs, and usually don't look twice when they see it happen, but in some of the smaller towns in Marin County, the cops have nothing better to do than hide out and wait for cyclists to run a stop sign where there is very little traffic.

Actually what's most frustrating to me about riding in SF is that motorists all expect us to not stop, so when I get to a 4 way stop and slow down to 1 mph (as I wait for the motorist to take his/her right of way and proceed), they just sit there and often wave me through. If they don't wave me through, I'll usually stop and put my foot down, and if they still don't go I'll write them a note.

Dear Motorist,

You arrived at this intersection before I did and therefore you have the right of way. Please proceed through the intersection so that I and the other 20 people waiting can get moving.
Pizza Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-08, 09:51 AM   #15
Hobartlemagne 
Spelling Snob
 
Hobartlemagne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Plano, Texas
Bikes: Panasonic DX4000, Bianchi Pista
Posts: 2,862
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
roll through 4-way stop signs is fine, I think (your odds are better)
roll through 2-way stop signs is very risky. Think about the general population, not we skilled riders.

Anyway, I wouldn't change my stop sign habits if the laws were changed.
__________________

The first rule of flats is You don't talk about flats!
Hobartlemagne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-08, 10:18 AM   #16
Gee3
Senior Moment Member
 
Gee3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Daly City, CA
Bikes: Specialized Allez Elite Double & 2008 Look 555
Posts: 1,354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigredgrad01 View Post
This is stupid. They should just not enforce existing laws on bikers, not change them.
In downtown SF, where I work, they already "don't" enforce existing laws! I see bikes run red lights and fly threw stop signs everyday... along with the pedestrians and drivers that do the same thing.

A mother with a child seated on the top tube of her bike had to weave through us pedestrians crossing on our green light so she could run her red light. She was in a hurry and couldn't wait 15 seconds until she had a green. This was on Monday of this week. I just thought it was a very stupid and dangerous move, especially with her young child on the bike with her.

You're just asking for trouble with a law like this. People will just see it as a chance to run red lights, not to stop and then go when safe. Nor will people read the law, just the headline and be oblivious to the actuall law of how to properly run the red light or stop sign.

I'm all for running it when the sensor doesn't "feel" your weight and it's clear and safe to go through. But don't make it law. It's a good idea on paper, but like many other laws, ignorance and stupidity will ruin it.
Gee3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-08, 01:40 PM   #17
reidconti
Carbon compliance tester
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 581
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza Man View Post
Dear Motorist,

You arrived at this intersection before I did and therefore you have the right of way. Please proceed through the intersection so that I and the other 20 people waiting can get moving.
I get that a lot around here too. People wave me thru once I'm stopped. I don't mind, but I wish I had known before I stopped so I didn't have to try to hurry out of the way and make everyone else wait.

I'm from Seattle, and drivers there get in waving matches with each other, with noone going. Same thing for freeway merges, the person merging and the person in the right lane on the freeway both stand on their brakes to see who can slow down the most. The loser of this contest then has the right of way to go in front.

My favorite from back home is when you drive up to a 4-way stop, and the vehicle already at the stop sits and waits for you to roll up from 1/8th mile away, slow down, and come to a complete stop before they go (easily 15-20 seconds of waiting for them). What I like to do instead of let them go is brake at the last possible second, come to an abrupt halt, and then gun it and go before they have a chance to get rolling.
reidconti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-08, 01:42 PM   #18
reidconti
Carbon compliance tester
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 581
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee3 View Post
But don't make it law. It's a good idea on paper, but like many other laws, ignorance and stupidity will ruin it.
True, but I'm not sure the "don't enforce the law" attitude is a solution. It just means more motorists will get pissed at cyclists. Haven't you ever noticed that people care less about what is safe, than about what is legal? Here in CA you see drivers move out of the way of lane-splitting motorcyclists all the time. Try that somewhere where it's illegal (but no less safe), and you'll have drivers trying to run them off the road left and right.
reidconti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-08, 06:20 PM   #19
genejockey
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Bikes: Battaglin MAX, Chorus kit; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, 7410 Dura Ace
Posts: 1,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by reidconti View Post
I get that a lot around here too. People wave me thru once I'm stopped. I don't mind, but I wish I had known before I stopped so I didn't have to try to hurry out of the way and make everyone else wait.
I usually time my arrival so that there's no question whose turn it is, and I've gotten in the habit of indicating to the driver they should go by looking directly at them and doing a "go ahead" head jerk. 95% of the time it works. Then there's the 20th guy who thinks he's being NICE, and tries to wave me through, except I can't really see him waving very well.

I usually mutter, "Don't be NICE, be PREDICTABLE!"
genejockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-08, 07:49 PM   #20
bigredgrad01
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you have problem with red light sensor not sensing you and there is no car waiting, put your bike sideways in the lane to increase radar cross section. Also, zigzagging left and right while approaching works sometimes as well.
bigredgrad01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-08, 08:20 PM   #21
genejockey
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Bikes: Battaglin MAX, Chorus kit; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, 7410 Dura Ace
Posts: 1,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If that doesn't work, buy a steel bike!
genejockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-08, 08:25 PM   #22
reidconti
Carbon compliance tester
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 581
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigredgrad01 View Post
If you have problem with red light sensor not sensing you and there is no car waiting, put your bike sideways in the lane to increase radar cross section. Also, zigzagging left and right while approaching works sometimes as well.
I think they're induction loop so they respond to metal mass. For all I know they're super-sensitive and will pick up a bike fine as you ride over due to the wheels, etc.

But if I'm stopping anyway, (and especially with a CF bike), I put my left cleat on the left boundary of where the cutout is (reasoning that maybe it's more sensitive there), and lower my bike so the crank arm and bottom bracket are just a couple of inches off the ground. They usually work for me.
reidconti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-08, 09:14 PM   #23
uspspro
Tandem Mountain Climber
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Mateo, CA
Bikes: Calfee Tandem, Custom CAAD9 BB30, 90 Santana Arriva Tandem, 02 CAAD4 errand bike, 87 Cannondale "Black Lightning"
Posts: 4,101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There are both inductive loops and photo sensor intersections. When in doubt look for weird shapes on the the roadway surface.
uspspro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-08, 09:16 PM   #24
uspspro
Tandem Mountain Climber
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Mateo, CA
Bikes: Calfee Tandem, Custom CAAD9 BB30, 90 Santana Arriva Tandem, 02 CAAD4 errand bike, 87 Cannondale "Black Lightning"
Posts: 4,101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
haha... here's one solution:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Traf...for-your-Bike/

This is very informative:

http://www.humantransport.org/bicycl...nals/green.htm
uspspro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-08, 10:15 PM   #25
genejockey
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Bikes: Battaglin MAX, Chorus kit; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, 7410 Dura Ace
Posts: 1,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Looks like if you're riding a carbon bkie with carbon wheels and a carbon crank, yer scrood.
genejockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:04 PM.