johnny99

The free Silicon Valley Metro newspaper printed an article last week about counterfeit Specialized carbon bicycles:
https://www.metroactive.com/metro/02....news-0905.html

Specialized says they are actively pursuing the counterfeiters. However, the newspaper could not find any local bike shop or any local bicyclist who has ever seen one of the fake bikes. Specialized said they found one counterfeit bike in Dubai and another in New Zealand.

Have any of you ever seen one of these counterfeits? Do you think they really exist? Or is this just a marketing ploy by Specialized? Building carbon bicycle frames is very difficult and expensive, so I have a hard time believing that someone is putting that much effort in to counterfeits.

x136 

Most carbon frames are made in Chinese factories, factories which produce the frames for several brands. Even if Specialized's aren't, there wouldn't be much stopping one of said factories from slapping Specialized logos on one of their generic frames. It wouldn't be a matter of some guy hand-wrapping carbon fiber frames in his garage.

Since that frame may have just as well been a Cervelo or any number of other brands, it's not like the "counterfeit Specialized" is necessarily junk or unsafe, Specialized just isn't getting any money for it.

That said, it's entirely possible the whole issue is being made up or blown out of proportion so that Specialized can get its name out there more, and/or start some kind of "When you buy a bike, make sure you buy genuine Specialized!" campaign.

Dchiefransom

When we were overseas in the Pacific, we were warned to buy Japanese cameras and optics only in Japan or at the Navy Exchange. It seems that in places like Hong Kong or Singapore that they remove the manufacturer's quality optics and replace them with cheap stuff. There was also some kind of warning about buying a Mercedes Benz in the same places, but not too many sailors had that kind of money.
When a carbon arrow manufacturer moved their plant to Mexico, they had some kind of problem with the guy that initially set up the plant "supposedly" making unauthorized arrow shafts and working them into the system. The quality of those shafts did not meet that of the arrow manufacturer. I suspect that could be what is happening here with the bicycle frames.
Many big name golf club manufacturers have problems with counterfeit clubs being made overseas.

johnny99

I believe that most carbon bicycles are made in Taiwan, not mainland China. Two very different countries.

x136 

Oops, I suppose "most" was an overstatement. I have heard about such factories in China, but no doubt there's plenty in Taiwan, as well.

johnny99

I have heard of one or two carbon bike factories in mainland China, but I believe that they are owned and managed by prominent Taiwanese companies. They are not sleazy fly-by-night operations like the ones that product poisoned baby formula or contaminated peanuts.

Jose Perez

What are being called "counterfeit" could also be factory frames sold out the back door. This is not uncommon in other industries and I am sure it happens with bikes as well. A company places an order for 100 frames and the factory orders enough materials to make 110. This is not obvious to the company placing the order, because their prices already incorporate some type of markup to cover this type of practice and the production schedules they are told the manufacturer can hold also take this into account. These additional frames are all made in the same molds, using the same raw materials, and by the same technicians, except those last 10 frames never make their way into normal distribution channels. They get sold out the back door and are almost all profit. Since the serial numbers aren't generated until they get into the hands of the company placing the orders, the factory will often make copies of serial number decals using made up numbers. People who own these frames may not be aware as they are identical to production units. However, if they take them into a dealer for service and the serial numbers are run, all bets are off.

I used to see this quite a bit when I worked with several manufacturers in the consumer electronics field. Like I said, I don't doubt that the same goes on in the bike industry.

Stacy

So maybe Specialized's decided it wasn't such a great idea to sell their decals from the website?

I_meant2do_that

Or they could be frames that were 'blems' and not accepted by Specialized (or bike brand here) because the carbon lays were uneven, crooked, bubbled, wrinkled etc. Or even worse, out of alignment, etc. But it's not like any of us would buy something from a factory outlet store at a reduced price or anything...

rumbutter

"But it's not like any of us would buy something from a factory outlet store at a reduced price or anything... "

I certainly buy stuff a closeout prices but never knowingly seconds (unless its clothing or something non life threatening). Usually last years models and such.
I often wonder if the tires from Pro Bike Kit are factory seconds as they are too cheap.

Dourbali Star

That, too, seems to be a point of contention:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan

johnny99

For all practical purposes, they are very different places. Leave the rhetoric to the politicians.

bam

oh no i was just looking at picking some up from there.. anyone have experience with their "tyres?" saving a couple bucks is not at all worth a blow out.

bigbossman 

I don't buy my tires/tyres from anyone else but PBK. AFAIK they are 1st quality.

Beaker

I've got my first set of P3R's from PBK without a problem. Purchases from PBK are a very common recommendation on the road forum as well. I've not heard any complaints yet.

Tapeworm21

That sucks. My bike is the one being counterfeited.