Lights on a foggy day
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Lights on a foggy day
This is the first time I’ve started a thread. Forgive me my presumptiveness if it comes across this way, but I want to make a plea to everyone.
On Saturday, January 2, I rode Old La Honda to Page Mill and while Skyline was mostly dry, visibility on this road and upper Page Mill was extremely limited—about 50-100 feet for most of the way. (It was like the lake crossing scene in Ugetsu for you movie buffs.)
Anyway, I was disappointed to see that the majority of cyclists (who may have outnumbered cars this day) were not using a headlight. Personally, I think it’s a good idea to use them at all times, but esp. when riding through thick fog. I noticed several cyclists heading the opposite (downhill) direction on Skyline who were going at a good clip. I could easily envision a situation where a driver exiting an open space preserve lot wouldn’t see a biker until it was too late.
I believe that cyclists who ride without a light under these conditions are showing a disregard for their personal safety. I could understand eschewing a light 25 years ago when the existing technology was primitive compared to what’s available today, but now a good LED system is relatively lightweight and unobtrusive.
Furthermore, from my lunchtime readings of the lawyer column in Velo News, I believe that if, god forbid, you are in an accident with a motorized vehicle (or another bike) without a light when conditions merit it, your legal position will be compromised, even if you weren’t strictly speaking “at fault.”
On Saturday, January 2, I rode Old La Honda to Page Mill and while Skyline was mostly dry, visibility on this road and upper Page Mill was extremely limited—about 50-100 feet for most of the way. (It was like the lake crossing scene in Ugetsu for you movie buffs.)
Anyway, I was disappointed to see that the majority of cyclists (who may have outnumbered cars this day) were not using a headlight. Personally, I think it’s a good idea to use them at all times, but esp. when riding through thick fog. I noticed several cyclists heading the opposite (downhill) direction on Skyline who were going at a good clip. I could easily envision a situation where a driver exiting an open space preserve lot wouldn’t see a biker until it was too late.
I believe that cyclists who ride without a light under these conditions are showing a disregard for their personal safety. I could understand eschewing a light 25 years ago when the existing technology was primitive compared to what’s available today, but now a good LED system is relatively lightweight and unobtrusive.
Furthermore, from my lunchtime readings of the lawyer column in Velo News, I believe that if, god forbid, you are in an accident with a motorized vehicle (or another bike) without a light when conditions merit it, your legal position will be compromised, even if you weren’t strictly speaking “at fault.”
#2
You gonna eat that?
#3
Eschew Obfuscation
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 3,845
Bikes: 2005 Fuji Professional, 2002 Lemond Zurich, Folders - Strida, Merc, Dahon, Downtube, Recumbent folder
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I was one of those stuck in the fog without lights. You think I wanted to be there under those conditions? It was sunny when I left the house. There was a blanket of fog on top which I had to ride through. I was scared ****less and I resent your assumption that I have a disregard for my personal safety.
__________________
Last edited by x136; 01-04-10 at 09:12 PM. Reason: Naughty!
#5
You gonna eat that?
I never ride without lights.... at least a cheapie white light on the front and red on the back.
#6
phony collective progress
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Hoosey
Posts: 2,973
Bikes: https://velospace.org/user/36663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
Sclara, SesameCrunch is right. Not everyone lightless on a foggy day is intentionally asking for trouble. Some are just caught off guard.
Just this morning, I was driving up Hamilton. In the valley and especially near the base of the mountain, there was pea-soup fog, but a bit of the way up the mountain, it was clear, sunny, and warmish. On the way down the mountain, I passed a cyclist. If the cyclist had come from the east, he might have been surprised by the fog, especially since it was after 10am by that point.
Sometimes fog (and other weather) just sneaks up on you.
Just this morning, I was driving up Hamilton. In the valley and especially near the base of the mountain, there was pea-soup fog, but a bit of the way up the mountain, it was clear, sunny, and warmish. On the way down the mountain, I passed a cyclist. If the cyclist had come from the east, he might have been surprised by the fog, especially since it was after 10am by that point.
Sometimes fog (and other weather) just sneaks up on you.
#7
Eschew Obfuscation
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 3,845
Bikes: 2005 Fuji Professional, 2002 Lemond Zurich, Folders - Strida, Merc, Dahon, Downtube, Recumbent folder
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#8
You gonna eat that?
#11
Never enough miles...
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 90
Bikes: Look 595, Rock Lobster Steel CX, Bianchi San Jose
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yeah, that is pretty light fog...
I rode up Montebello Road on Sunday morning. Going out to the climb, there were sections of fog that were pretty thick. Certainly nothing I'd bat an eye about riding without a light in though. Of course, I wasn't descending in it. It was crystal clear up on the mountain. Now, it was quite cold out in Stevens Canyon. I'm sure glad I brought my windproof warm gloves...
I rode up Montebello Road on Sunday morning. Going out to the climb, there were sections of fog that were pretty thick. Certainly nothing I'd bat an eye about riding without a light in though. Of course, I wasn't descending in it. It was crystal clear up on the mountain. Now, it was quite cold out in Stevens Canyon. I'm sure glad I brought my windproof warm gloves...
#12
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978
Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
4 Posts
Look at that headlight-less punk in the Skyline Fog (pretty obscured for like 5ft away)!
Personally, I have a red blinkie on the back, and use that when caught in the fog. I don't bring my headlight unless it's going to be rainy or dark. Cars approaching from my front should be on the other side of the road, or I have real problems either way. Cars approaching from behind hopefully see the red light. On descents, I go at the speed my eyes allow me. If I can't see a driveway/entrance, I proceed as if there's a UPS truck about to pull out and kill me (usually is).
So I guess my vote is to have a taillight, and ride safely. Also, blast your earbuds and leave your helmet at home, as helmets are wussy.
#13
Eschew Obfuscation
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 3,845
Bikes: 2005 Fuji Professional, 2002 Lemond Zurich, Folders - Strida, Merc, Dahon, Downtube, Recumbent folder
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Look at that headlight-less punk in the Skyline Fog (pretty obscured for like 5ft away)!
Personally, I have a red blinkie on the back, and use that when caught in the fog. I don't bring my headlight unless it's going to be rainy or dark. Cars approaching from my front should be on the other side of the road, or I have real problems either way. Cars approaching from behind hopefully see the red light. On descents, I go at the speed my eyes allow me. If I can't see a driveway/entrance, I proceed as if there's a UPS truck about to pull out and kill me (usually is).
So I guess my vote is to have a taillight, and ride safely. Also, blast your earbuds and leave your helmet at home, as helmets are wussy.
Yeah, I decided after that ride that I would bring blinkies on every ride. I see more and more people doing that now regardless.
__________________
#14
moth -----> flame
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 5,916
Bikes: 11 CAAD 10-4, 07 Specialized Roubaix Comp, 98 Peugeot Horizon
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Personally, I have a red blinkie on the back, and use that when caught in the fog. I don't bring my headlight unless it's going to be rainy or dark. Cars approaching from my front should be on the other side of the road, or I have real problems either way. Cars approaching from behind hopefully see the red light. On descents, I go at the speed my eyes allow me. If I can't see a driveway/entrance, I proceed as if there's a UPS truck about to pull out and kill me (usually is).
__________________
BF, in a nutshell
BF, in a nutshell
#15
Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
This is the first time I’ve started a thread. Forgive me my presumptiveness if it comes across this way, but I want to make a plea to everyone.
On Saturday, January 2, I rode Old La Honda to Page Mill and while Skyline was mostly dry, visibility on this road and upper Page Mill was extremely limited—about 50-100 feet for most of the way. (It was like the lake crossing scene in Ugetsu for you movie buffs.)
Anyway, I was disappointed to see that the majority of cyclists (who may have outnumbered cars this day) were not using a headlight. Personally, I think it’s a good idea to use them at all times, but esp. when riding through thick fog. I noticed several cyclists heading the opposite (downhill) direction on Skyline who were going at a good clip. I could easily envision a situation where a driver exiting an open space preserve lot wouldn’t see a biker until it was too late.
I believe that cyclists who ride without a light under these conditions are showing a disregard for their personal safety. I could understand eschewing a light 25 years ago when the existing technology was primitive compared to what’s available today, but now a good LED system is relatively lightweight and unobtrusive.
Furthermore, from my lunchtime readings of the lawyer column in Velo News, I believe that if, god forbid, you are in an accident with a motorized vehicle (or another bike) without a light when conditions merit it, your legal position will be compromised, even if you weren’t strictly speaking “at fault.”
On Saturday, January 2, I rode Old La Honda to Page Mill and while Skyline was mostly dry, visibility on this road and upper Page Mill was extremely limited—about 50-100 feet for most of the way. (It was like the lake crossing scene in Ugetsu for you movie buffs.)
Anyway, I was disappointed to see that the majority of cyclists (who may have outnumbered cars this day) were not using a headlight. Personally, I think it’s a good idea to use them at all times, but esp. when riding through thick fog. I noticed several cyclists heading the opposite (downhill) direction on Skyline who were going at a good clip. I could easily envision a situation where a driver exiting an open space preserve lot wouldn’t see a biker until it was too late.
I believe that cyclists who ride without a light under these conditions are showing a disregard for their personal safety. I could understand eschewing a light 25 years ago when the existing technology was primitive compared to what’s available today, but now a good LED system is relatively lightweight and unobtrusive.
Furthermore, from my lunchtime readings of the lawyer column in Velo News, I believe that if, god forbid, you are in an accident with a motorized vehicle (or another bike) without a light when conditions merit it, your legal position will be compromised, even if you weren’t strictly speaking “at fault.”
About lights during fog, I couldn’t agree more, but I would go one step further.
I think lights make you safer even in bright clear days, that’s right, especially blindly sunny days.
Have you found yourself driving on a curvy mountain road on a nice bright sunny weekend day, you have your sunglasses on because it’s so bright, the road is twisting in all direction, in some of those directions the sun maybe just in your eyes, you haven’t clean your windshield in couple of weeks, and although not dirty it gets a bit harder to see with the sun shinning on it, and you’re enjoying yourself, few cars on the road, the music is playing and you’re “testing” your cars performance around all these corners.
Here comes the problem, some of these corners are totally shaded and you often go from blinding brightness, sun in your eyes places to total shade. One’s eyes, at least mine, take few sec to adjust from the brightness to shade, enough time to take several bicyclist out if they happened to be at the wrong place.
My light of choice is a dual blinking red Dinotte taillight putting out 400 lumens, if I’m anywhere inside the peripheral vision of the driver I believe I will almost certainly be seen, of course I also have my front lights on, but here I wanted to point out the significance of a strong taillight even under conditions that you thing you don’t need any lighting. About good, strong lights in general, I have found that I get much more “respect” (in other words room), from cars since I’ve switched to good lights, not to mention night biking, one of my favorite, is also so much more fun when you can clearly see where you’re going.
My 400 lumen taillight:
https://store.dinottelighting.com/sha...unt2=474647164
I realize this is an expensive light, but any light is better than none.
Finally, ask yourself, if you already own some lights why not carry them with you and use them? there is a bit more weigh but hey, you get a better workout :-) , you can always leave them home on your "race" day. If you don't have any lights, I hope these posts help you decide if you should get some
My saying is that: One should try to control the risks that can be controlled, there plenty of uncontrollable ones.
#16
crazy bike girl
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Central Coast
Posts: 3,325
Bikes: '07 Orbea Onix, '07 Birdy Yellow, '06 Cannondale Bad Boy (stolen)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Personally, I have a red blinkie on the back, and use that when caught in the fog. I don't bring my headlight unless it's going to be rainy or dark. Cars approaching from my front should be on the other side of the road, or I have real problems either way. Cars approaching from behind hopefully see the red light. On descents, I go at the speed my eyes allow me. If I can't see a driveway/entrance, I proceed as if there's a UPS truck about to pull out and kill me (usually is).
__________________
Countries I've ridden in: US, Canada, Ireland, UK, Germany, Netherlands, France, China, Singapore, Malaysia
States I've ridden in: Illinois, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, California, Nevada, Missouri, Colorado
Countries I've ridden in: US, Canada, Ireland, UK, Germany, Netherlands, France, China, Singapore, Malaysia
States I've ridden in: Illinois, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, California, Nevada, Missouri, Colorado
#17
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978
Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
4 Posts
I don't mind the weight of a headlight, but I've yet to find one that doesn't rattle, eat batteries, or annoy me in some other little way. I stick to the right-hand side of the road and take responsibility for my own safety. If I get hit head-on by a car going the wrong way on my side of the road, tell my family that a headlight probably wouldn't have woken the sleeping driver.
#18
Eschew Obfuscation
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 3,845
Bikes: 2005 Fuji Professional, 2002 Lemond Zurich, Folders - Strida, Merc, Dahon, Downtube, Recumbent folder
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
On the morning in question, I was barely seeing car headlights. Serious. It was that thick. No little battery LED bike light was going to do much good.
I went from Alpine all the way to 84. It wasn't until I descended 84 West a ways before I got out of the fog. 9 miles. Scariest ride I have ever been on. The smart thing for me would have been to turn around and go back down West Alpine, then stop by MsIncredible's house for hot chocolate or something.... :-)
I went from Alpine all the way to 84. It wasn't until I descended 84 West a ways before I got out of the fog. 9 miles. Scariest ride I have ever been on. The smart thing for me would have been to turn around and go back down West Alpine, then stop by MsIncredible's house for hot chocolate or something.... :-)
__________________
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 1,953
Bikes: '84 Centurion Accordo RS, '06 Gary Fisher Marlin, '06 Schwinn Fastback 27, '06 Litespeed Teramo
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I don't mind the weight of a headlight, but I've yet to find one that doesn't rattle, eat batteries, or annoy me in some other little way. I stick to the right-hand side of the road and take responsibility for my own safety. If I get hit head-on by a car going the wrong way on my side of the road, tell my family that a headlight probably wouldn't have woken the sleeping driver.
I've had one for a month now and this baby lasts for 3 hours on high, plenty bright and is as quiet as a dog fart. Except it doesn't stink.
edit: If you are a weight weenie, its only 130 grams.
Cygolite Milion 200
#20
crazy bike girl
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Central Coast
Posts: 3,325
Bikes: '07 Orbea Onix, '07 Birdy Yellow, '06 Cannondale Bad Boy (stolen)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
I went from Alpine all the way to 84. It wasn't until I descended 84 West a ways before I got out of the fog. 9 miles. Scariest ride I have ever been on. The smart thing for me would have been to turn around and go back down West Alpine, then stop by MsIncredible's house for hot chocolate or something.... :-)
__________________
Countries I've ridden in: US, Canada, Ireland, UK, Germany, Netherlands, France, China, Singapore, Malaysia
States I've ridden in: Illinois, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, California, Nevada, Missouri, Colorado
Countries I've ridden in: US, Canada, Ireland, UK, Germany, Netherlands, France, China, Singapore, Malaysia
States I've ridden in: Illinois, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, California, Nevada, Missouri, Colorado
#21
Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Check those out, the 1200L is brighter than my car's lights, and... more expensice, but, it's worth it. Just my opinion.
https://www.dinottelighting.com/
https://www.dinottelighting.com/
#22
I am a caffine girl
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,815
Bikes: 2012 Stumpjumper FSR Comp...2010 Scott CR1 CF...2007 Novara FS Float2.0...2009 Specialized Hardrock Disc...2009 Schwinn Le Tour GSr
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I wonder just what kind of lights folks in the San Joanquin valley use when the Tule fog becomes thick like pea soup?
I own a MS light and it is very bright and cheap, but something like that may get glare back from the fog. Haven't tested it in the fog yet, but one day I will when it gets me by surprise.
I own a MS light and it is very bright and cheap, but something like that may get glare back from the fog. Haven't tested it in the fog yet, but one day I will when it gets me by surprise.
#23
Direct Hit Not Required
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Bruno, CA
Posts: 6,193
Bikes: Leopard DC1, Ridley X-Fire, GT Zaskar 9r
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I put my old DiNotte 200 light on my helmet for an MTB ride and honestly, it balances better to
have the battery at the back of the helmet and the light on the front. I don't think I'd like having
just the light on the front making the helmet front heavy.
#24
Freewheel Burning
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Belmont, CA
Posts: 149
Bikes: Motobecane Fantom 29, Trek 850 Mountain Track
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I agree with the OP, if you always have lights with you then you never need be caught without them. You never know when you're going to be out later than expected or be caught in a bank of coastal fog. I many cases, lights are still going to be at least somewhat effective in any but the thickest tule fog or icy fog like a friend of mine encounters all the time where he lives in the Sierras. Do you turn off your car headlights as soon as you hit some fog? I certainly hope not! Yes, a cheap light may not be the greatest but better lights can be had for reasonable prices. Planet Bike's Superflash is an excellent tail light and I've heard great things about the Cherry Bomb as well. For a headlight, I recommend the 1/2-watt or 1-watt Blaze.
I've also seen mounts you can attach to your fork legs for a light, so it will shine down under the fog, sort of like car fog lights. Not sure how effective it is, but it's got to be better than nothing!
I've also seen mounts you can attach to your fork legs for a light, so it will shine down under the fog, sort of like car fog lights. Not sure how effective it is, but it's got to be better than nothing!
#25
Full Member
Thread Starter
Reaction to reactions
I’m glad to see that if nothing else I started a bit of a debate with my “editorial.” Thanks for the feedback!
I angered someone, bored another, was subject to good-natured mockery, had one questioning the appropriateness of the posting’s location, and had several people more or less agree (gratifying).
I do apologize to Sesame Crunch for perhaps being a bit overwrought; I realize that you don’t really influence people when you (inadvertently) insult them and my ambition was really to get people thinking about behavior modification.
Without using lights, I’ve safely come back from hundreds of trips to Skyline over the past 25 years. I understand riding a bicycle there isn’t a B-29 mission over Germany. But after using lights I’m never going to go back to my old ways. There’s too many locations where they make me feel more secure: think about the Highway 9/Sanborn or Highway 35/84 intersections or the situations whenever you get caught in sketchy light.
One other point, if you’re like me, you may ride your bike up to Skyline 50 or more times in a year and drive up 0-2 times. The only time I drove up last year did give me an interesting perspective—bikes on a fast moving road can appear and disappear like apparitions— and yes my old eyes peering through my less than pristine windshield did notice bikes with lights a second or two quicker.
Lights are really impressive now days and I hope some of you on the fence people will consider them.
I angered someone, bored another, was subject to good-natured mockery, had one questioning the appropriateness of the posting’s location, and had several people more or less agree (gratifying).
I do apologize to Sesame Crunch for perhaps being a bit overwrought; I realize that you don’t really influence people when you (inadvertently) insult them and my ambition was really to get people thinking about behavior modification.
Without using lights, I’ve safely come back from hundreds of trips to Skyline over the past 25 years. I understand riding a bicycle there isn’t a B-29 mission over Germany. But after using lights I’m never going to go back to my old ways. There’s too many locations where they make me feel more secure: think about the Highway 9/Sanborn or Highway 35/84 intersections or the situations whenever you get caught in sketchy light.
One other point, if you’re like me, you may ride your bike up to Skyline 50 or more times in a year and drive up 0-2 times. The only time I drove up last year did give me an interesting perspective—bikes on a fast moving road can appear and disappear like apparitions— and yes my old eyes peering through my less than pristine windshield did notice bikes with lights a second or two quicker.
Lights are really impressive now days and I hope some of you on the fence people will consider them.