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  1. #1
    Family, Health, Cycling Lanceoldstrong's Avatar
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    Lanceoldstong offers Team In Training an apology

    This week I replied to a thread a man posted that asked about riding opportunities for his wife to ride with other women.

    I endorsed Team in Training and said:

    ďMy wife really enjoys Team in Training. She's trained with them twice for the Solvang Century. The teams are about 98% women.http://www.teamintraining.org/ They also train people for Tri's and The Death Ride. There is the fund raising component to deal with but, it is a worthy cause. Cancer research.Ē

    Since then...

    A friend that I really value and trust has brought to my attention that Team in Training is more like 50% each gender. I believe now I did Team in Training and women a disservice by flippantly characterizing the organization as some kind of a girls club.

    Team in Training is a place for both men and women of all abilities that want to help in a very worthy cause and push themselves to be their very best. Certainly, many of the women involved are strong and powerful athletes that could rip my legs off if they are training for events as epic as The Death Ride.

    I spoke out of ignorance and my very limited experience meeting just portions of my wifeís Team in Training groups, this year and last year, at just a couple of functions.

    My intent was to encourage participation in Team in Training and I apologize if I have deterred anyoneís interest in the organization by misrepresenting it.

    I am grateful to Team in Training for the tremendous work they do in the fight against Leukemia and Lymphoma.

    I also salute Team in Training for how much they help grow the sport of cycling with all the many strong, safe and enthusiastic cyclists they help create each year. My wife counted among them, much to my great delight.

    All members and supporters of Team in Training, please accept my apology.
    I am sorry for being an ass.
    In Escendo Est Verum

  2. #2
    Crawlin' up, flyin' down bikingshearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanceoldstrong View Post
    I am sorry for being an ass.
    S'okay. We're used to it.
    "I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney

  3. #3
    Senior Member pchopper's Avatar
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    Where's my reparation money? I went to Team in Training, it was a sausage fest (not serious)
    your friendly neighborhood fred

  4. #4
    Crawlin' up, flyin' down bikingshearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikingshearer View Post
    S'okay. We're used to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by pchopper View Post
    Where's my reparation money? I went to Team in Training, it was a sausage fest (not serious)
    In both cases, I think the long-time legal doctrine of "takes one to know one" applies.


    In all seriousness, Dan, you owe no apologies in my book. Your error was neither intentional nor offensive, you gave a great plug to worthy organization, and you gave a fine suggestion to the OP that answered the question posed.

    So stop beating yourself up already. That's for bigbossman, MarkoPolo, midland and me to do tomorrow. Not to give our plans away, but have you ever seen "Breaking Away"?
    "I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney

  5. #5
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Well personally I think they are a huge rip off or put it more PC have a great business model. So there now everyone can be pissed at me for talking bad about it. lol
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

  6. #6
    Dolce far niente bigbossman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pchopper View Post
    Where's my reparation money? I went to Team in Training, it was a sausage fest (not serious)
    Yeah - the sausage-to-pie ratio was seriously skewed the wrong way.
    "Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin, itís the triumphant twang of a bedspring."

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  7. #7
    It's MY mountain DiabloScott's Avatar
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    I know next to nothing about TnT (We all know what the real acronym is an that's kind of ironic given this topic).

    But that was a well-written apology.
    http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/

  8. #8
    back of the autobus jobob's Avatar
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    Well gee, color me clueless, what's the real acronym, Scott?

    It most certainly wasn't my intention to turn this into a Big Freakin' Deal when I emailed LOS off-list and had this to say about that 98% figure: "Wow. That is just so not correct."

    I can see where he got that impression, participants within a team are grouped according to strength and ability. Often times the slower groups are predominantly women, and often times women are predominantly in the slower groups. Except when they're not. As well, friendships spring up among riders, be they in the same or different training groups, and it's natural that women gravitate together and men gravitate together. 'Specially those men & women who aren't looking for dates ...

    I did take a look at the participant* listings for the various cycle teams in the SF Bay Area / Redwood Wine country, and yes, it works out to roughly a 50:50 sausage/pie ratio in each of those teams (*not coaches, mentors, team captains -- though those seem to be roughly 50:50 as well).

    So there you have it. I didn't want the OP and his wife to be misled by LOS' statement.

    UmneyDurak, it's unfortunate that you consider TnT a "huge rip off' but in the final analysis, those of us who support TnT have our own reasons for doing so, and if you don't, well, so be it.


    Oh and LOS, you are so not an ass.

    - Jo.
    Last edited by jobob; 03-07-10 at 11:07 AM.

  9. #9
    Crawlin' up, flyin' down bikingshearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jobob View Post
    Oh and LOS, you are so not an ass.

    - Jo.
    Oh, c'mon, don't let him off the hook that easily. You could at least have let him twist slowly in the breeze for another few days.




    Hey, Jo, glad that that crash is receding further and further in the rear-view mirror. I'm douboy glad that you are getting your riding form back. Hope to see ouyt on the road.
    "I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney

  10. #10
    Dolce far niente bigbossman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikingshearer View Post
    Oh, c'mon, don't let him off the hook that easily. You could at least have let him twist slowly in the breeze for another few days.
    Yeah - you just undid all the hard work we put in today. The three of us were like terriers, giving him the needle all day long. And now you go and let him off the hook - it just ain't right.
    "Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin, itís the triumphant twang of a bedspring."

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  11. #11
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    I really wouldn't suggest Team in Training. There are other great ways to help the causes it supports without the trouble that comes with it. Team in Training sends out riders without adiquate preperation or knowledge and often times this leads to more dangerous situations for both the riders and the people riding around them (especially when they are grouped, like at the Marin Century.
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  12. #12
    Don't mince words Red Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val23708 View Post
    I really wouldn't suggest Team in Training. There are other great ways to help the causes it supports without the trouble that comes with it. Team in Training sends out riders without adiquate preperation or knowledge and often times this leads to more dangerous situations for both the riders and the people riding around them (especially when they are grouped, like at the Marin Century.
    I'll argue that point: I signed up for TnT in '06 for the Tahoe ride, although I was well into my training for the Solvang Century. I dropped out because my training was already further along than TnT. I was impressed with the training; if I hadn't been training with a CAT 1 racer and his wife I wouldn't have been able to appreciate what TnT offers for the new and inexperienced cyclist.

    TnT riders call out when they're passing/being passed. They have crazy helmet adornments but they do communicate, which is more than I can say for the group that passed LOS and me at last year's crash-tastic Solvang century. There were no TnT's involved in the big pile-up. I've not heard more communication (outside of a race) from "casual" riders than I have from TnT riders.

    We were on the Marin Century in '07 &'08 and had no problems with TnT. What's your issue? How do you support your assertion that they send their riders out w/o adequate preparation?
    When my feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh, *****, she's awake!"

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  13. #13
    back of the autobus jobob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
    Yeah - you just undid all the hard work we put in today. The three of us were like terriers, giving him the needle all day long. And now you go and let him off the hook - it just ain't right.
    Oh, sorry about that! I didn't get the memo.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Rider View Post
    We were on the Marin Century in '07 &'08 and had no problems with TnT. What's your issue? How do you support your assertion that they send their riders out w/o adequate preparation?

    can't hold lines (esp going up hills). unpredictable and dangerous going down hills. stopped on the road (usually on a hill). i really don't feel comfortable passing anyone in green and purple at a distance of less than 2 or 3 yards.

    I'm not saying every single rider has these issues, but when you get like a hundred or so, you run into enough who do
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  15. #15
    back of the autobus jobob's Avatar
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    And then there are the ones who blow right through stopsigns and stoplights, sometimes causing drivers with the right-of-way to slam on their brakes.

    And the ones who pass within inches with absolutely no warning, especially going downhill. Or passing you in a big-azz paceline where you have no place to go in case there's a pileup or an obstruction up ahead in the road.

    I'm not saying every single rider wearing a WebCor* kit has these issues, but when you get two or three or a dozen or so, you run into enough who do.

    *or Alto Velo, or Ophir-Milan, or any of a number of area race-oriented clubs full of people with plenty of experience who darn well know better but for some misplaced sense of entitlement choose to behave as inconsiderate and downright dangerous jackasses on the road.
    Last edited by jobob; 03-08-10 at 12:44 PM.

  16. #16
    Don't mince words Red Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jobob View Post
    And then there are the ones who blow right through stopsigns and stoplights, sometimes causing drivers with the right-of-way to slam on their brakes.

    And the ones who pass within inches with absolutely no warning, especially going downhill. Or passing you in a big-azz paceline where you have no place to go in case there's a pileup or an obstruction up ahead in the road.

    I'm not saying every single rider wearing a WebCor* kit has these issues, but when you get two or three or a dozen or so, you run into enough who do.

    *or Alto Velo, or Ophir-Milan, or any of a number of area race-oriented clubs full of people with plenty of experience who darn well know better but for some misplaced sense of entitlement choose to behave as inconsiderate and downright dangerous jackasses on the road.
    Well-said, j-b. Thanks!

    The bolded sentence was the cause of my crash a year ago. The offenders were from a number of clubs but they all exhibited that sense of entitlement and unsafe riding.

    Every group is going to have a few bad apples. Why generalize? TnT is no worse than the clubs Jo mentioned, and is better than most in that they teach road etiquette.
    When my feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh, *****, she's awake!"

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  17. #17
    Dolce far niente bigbossman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Rider View Post
    The bolded sentence was the cause of my crash a year ago. The offenders were from a number of clubs but they all exhibited that sense of entitlement and unsafe riding.
    I thought the experts decided that you and Lance were the cause of your crash last year.






    "Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin, itís the triumphant twang of a bedspring."

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  18. #18
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    Neither fast idiots nor slow idiots should be defended.

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  19. #19
    Senior Member gpelpel's Avatar
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    Idiots are those, regardless of their speed, who are not in control of their vehicle or do not obey the rules of the road and therefore put themselves and others in unnecessary dangers.

  20. #20
    Direct Hit Not Required BlastRadius's Avatar
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    I rode with a very nice group of TnT riders from Alabama at the AMBBR (Tahoe) century a few years back. They were fast (or I was slow) but still embodied the TnT etiquette. I like the AMBBR but there's so many TnT groups signed up for it that getting in is pretty hard if you're NOT in a TnT group.

  21. #21
    Crawlin' up, flyin' down bikingshearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
    i thought the testoerone-crazed lunatic fringe decided that you and lance were the cause of your crash last year.

    fify.
    "I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney

  22. #22
    Senior Member cantdrv55's Avatar
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    I did the Marin event in '07 with TnT. It was the best $1800 experience as far as cycling goes for me. The training they provided helped me keep up with the club folks and it was the driving force I needed to get my butt on a bike for long distance riding. Without their training, I'd never have been able to a metric, let alone a century. Too bad I didn't keep it up though.

    By the way, I told my non-cycling buddies that if they wanted to find a date, go join TnT. Lots of fitness minded women in my TnT group, the ratio was like 3 ladies to 1 guy and most of us dudes were married while the girls were single!

  23. #23
    Don't mince words Red Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikingshearer View Post
    fify.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
    I thought the experts decided that you and Lance were the cause of your crash last year.



    When my feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh, *****, she's awake!"

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  24. #24
    Crawlin' up, flyin' down bikingshearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Rider View Post



    And your point would be . . . ?

    "I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney

  25. #25
    Don't mince words Red Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikingshearer View Post
    And your point would be . . . ?

    When you're as hawt as I am, you don't need a point.

    That is all.
    When my feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh, *****, she's awake!"

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