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  1. #1
    Senior Member cthenn's Avatar
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    Now this is the kind of s*** that pi**es me off!

    http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stori...d-drivers-from


    These out-of-town cyclists blow through Diablo's stop signs. They go too fast. And they ride two or three abreast across narrow roads, jeopardizing safety and movement in the small community, residents say.

    There is so much bullsh*t in this I can't stop laughing. Stop signs...ok so yeah sometimes we blow stop signs, but when you are heading toward the mountain you are going what...12mph? I think at that speed you are still going slower than most drivers who do a California stop at every stop sign I see. Too fast? Again, the speed limit through there is 10mph? Two or three abreast? Three riders is wider than one of those giant SUV's I see cruising those streets? But wait...who cares, we ride too to fast, you'll never catch us, so what difference does it make?! Jeopardizing safety? Right, the 5,000lb giant metal box is in danger of the 18 lb carbon fiber bike and fleshy human denting their hood when they run us over. Farking ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You know, I hate to stereotype people, but screw you rich a-holes! They are going to ban us from riding the only safe route to the south gate, and force us to risk our lives on an extremely dangerous narrow, twisting road because these mothereffers can't stand the sight of non elite rich jagoffs like them in their neighborhood.

    Screw this, I'd still ride through there. What are they gonna do, post a guard? OH NOES, FENCE OFF THE WORLD, THERE ARE NON RICH PEOPLE RUINING MY PERFECT LIFE! Man I'm so ticked off reading this!!!!
    Last edited by cthenn; 05-16-13 at 10:08 PM.

  2. #2
    VNA
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    To my understanding only the state can limit access to traffic, not the county or city levels!

    The residents should complain about all those cars that speed through the town and don't stop at stop signs!

    Besides these cars and trucks damage a lot more the roads than cyclists!

  3. #3
    Too Fat for This Sport Diegomayra's Avatar
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    I only take two routes to reach the South Gate. Blackhawk Rd. and Diablo Rd., I could understand the frustration if you are a community member who has had a close call with a cyclist cutting corners to sharply or outright blowing them.

    Widen Diablo Rd... problem solved.

  4. #4
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
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    You are one angry child . . .
    Stupid too if the traffic laws do not apply to you, oh glorious macho fella!

  5. #5
    Too Fat for This Sport Diegomayra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VNA View Post
    To my understanding only the state can limit access to traffic, not the county or city levels!

    The residents should complain about all those cars that speed through the town and don't stop at stop signs!

    Besides these cars and trucks damage a lot more the roads than cyclists!
    Its a private road. Communities in the foothills routinely limit access via gates, it can be done.

  6. #6
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    Interesting that they are proposing closing off the roads in the whole community which will cause considerable inconvenience and cost if they want to enforce it (i.e. basically make the community a gated one) instead of just closing off the 'hole in the fence' bicycle access to Mt. Diablo Scenic Blvd. Closing the latter would eliminate most of the bicycle traffic through the community, especially the faster riders coming downhill from the fence, while still allowing cyclists to avoid the worst part of Diablo Rd.

    When they were issuing lots of stop sign citations last year (reportedly for almost $400 each), I only saw the enforcement being done in the section between Avenida Nueva and the 'hole in the fence' so I presume that's where they had complaints. Closing the hole would solve any issues in that part of the community and wouldn't require any ongoing enforcement cost of a 'local traffic only' rule (entrance gates, security guards, etc.) - and it would still allow cyclists to bypass the narrow section of Diablo Rd. which has poor sight lines.

  7. #7
    It's MY mountain DiabloScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
    Interesting that they are proposing closing off the roads in the whole community which will cause considerable inconvenience and cost if they want to enforce it (i.e. basically make the community a gated one) instead of just closing off the 'hole in the fence' bicycle access to Mt. Diablo Scenic Blvd.
    I think there's an easement for that hole and the community can't plug it. They could certainly make it less attractive by planting puncture vine or something there. I've never seen dangerous riding inside the area though... this is just elitism.
    http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/

  8. #8
    Warning:Annoying to jerks RaleighSport's Avatar
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    I'll just say what I had to say in the comments.
    "To the residents of Diablo, if you do pass this please remember not to leave your community or drive or ride on any other communities roads. It wouldn't be safe for the rest of us to be stuck on roads with people who can't grasp sharing them."
    “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”


    ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Emerson in His Journals

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    The real question that needs to be asked, and answered, in this discussion is whether the community has the legal authority to ban cyclists from passing through their community using their private roadways. From what I have seen, this is a murky issue. There are complex legal issues of property ownership, public access, rights-of-way, and the definition of trespassing. There was a similar issue in the Boston area where cyclists were banned from a neighborhood. Here's a couple of links:

    http://village14.com/netwon-ma/2012/...#axzz2TZ0C4kfo

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...ess/?page=full

    Another interesting topic is what exactly is trespassing? From what I'm seeing, to be charged with trespassing, you have to not only enter someone's property without permission, but you ALSO have to intend to occupy said property or otherwise damage the property or interfere with business activities. Just passing through on your bicycle does not appear to meet the standard. Here's a link:

    http://www.shouselaw.com/trespass.html

    On a prior-year Mt Diablo Challenge Race, I saw a cop car posted at the entrance with 2 cops just standing there, I assume telling riders they can't come in. I always wondered whether there was any legal authority there. I'm guessing that same cop car may be there for the TOC stage on Saturday.

  10. #10
    VNA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diegomayra View Post
    Its a private road. Communities in the foothills routinely limit access via gates, it can be done.
    That would mean closing South Gate--Apparently park access can't be restricted.

    There is a similar situation in Lafayette: Panorama road may be a private road but cyclists and pedestrians can use it because it is an access to Briones and therefore a public trail.

    That sense of exclusion is maddening and singling cyclists out shows a lack of tolerance for innocuous usage.
    Cyclists do not pollute, and certainly not noisy and of course do not damage their "private roads."

    Or could it be the residents of Diablo are jealous of our fitness and seeing all these beautiful bodies in colorful lycra detrimental to their well being!

    Maybe we should set a date and have a "Friday Critical Mass"
    Last edited by VNA; 05-17-13 at 11:17 AM.

  11. #11
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    Can a road be closed arbitrarily, even if it privately owned? My legal knowledge is still mostly Indian - so I'd like to understand how it works here. In India at least, if a private road was not gated and was used as a public road, it cannot be closed. Heck, even a closed road can be reopened if the petitioner can show that the road was publicly accessible at some point.
    http://treadrightly.blogspot.com/

  12. #12
    Too Fat for This Sport Diegomayra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by treadtread View Post
    Can a road be closed arbitrarily, even if it privately owned? My legal knowledge is still mostly Indian - so I'd like to understand how it works here. In India at least, if a private road was not gated and was used as a public road, it cannot be closed. Heck, even a closed road can be reopened if the petitioner can show that the road was publicly accessible at some point.
    I wish we had some sort of reclamation process for old dirt roads use publicly during the first part of the 1900's in the eastern Central Valley-Foothills. Would be awesome to have open spaces avenues to cyclocross or MTB through the motherlode.

  13. #13
    Crawlin' up, flyin' down bikingshearer's Avatar
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    To the residents of Diablo: Good luck. Lord knows I don't want to to pay a lawyer - or be the lawyer - to challenge any efforts on the residents' part to close it off, but I suspect (I haven't looked into it at all) that the Hole in the Wall and the road leading to it have been used long enough to create an easement, meaning the locals could not close it off. Or plant puncture vines along the pathway. Or do anything else to interfere with its use

    To cthenn and the rest of us who use the Hole in the Wall - cut the crap and cut the attitude. You are harming, not helping, cyclists and cycling. Speeding through Diablo (as far too many cyclists do coming down off the mountain) and runing stop signs (ditto, except in both directions) and riding three abreast when cars are around (ditto ditto) is neither legal nor smart. Cars do "California stops"? So what? The "everybody else was doing it" argument didn't work on the 2nd grade play ground; what makes you think it works now? The "they do it, too" and "they are a bunch of rich jerks" and the rest of it amounts to nothing more than collection of whiny, self-righteous psuedo-justifications for behavior that you know but won't admit is wrong.

    The only thing you accomplish by this sort of attitude is to p*ss the locals off enough to want to ban us. My sense is they have no legal basis for doing so. But maybe they do (and wouldn't it be a kick in the pants if cyclists' bad behavior alerted the locals just in time to shut the route off before enough time passed to create and easement - did anyone ever think of that?). Damn near nothing is certain in the law, and I can assure you there are no 100% slam-dunk answers here. And even if we cyclists have the winning legal argument here, do you really want to have to pay me or some other lawyer to make the legal fight? It is a stupid use of time and resources, especially when all that is needed is to behave the way the Vehicle Code says we are supposed to behave anyway. A modicum of common sense and this issue would never have seen the light of day. A modicum of common sense now will completely defuse it.
    Last edited by bikingshearer; 05-17-13 at 06:14 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by VNA View Post
    That would mean closing South Gate--Apparently park access can't be restricted.
    Park access to Mt. Diablo State Park does not depend on using the roads in the Diablo country club community. Mt. Diablo Scenic Blvd. is the road that goes up the south side of Mt. Diablo to the junction and it connects to directly to Diablo Rd. So there's no need to go through the country club area to get to the park.

    However, leaving Diablo Rd. and using Avenida Diablo to enter the country club avoids an undesirable part of Diablo Rd. (winding with minimal shoulder and poor visibility). And it leads to the 'Hole in the Fence' path which connects to Mt. Diablo Scenic Blvd. providing a shortcut and a bit less climbing compared to staying on Diablo Rd. up to Athenian School and taking Mt. Diablo Scenic Blvd. from there.

    Does anyone know what easement exists for the 'Hole in the Fence' path mentioned by DiabloScott? Seems odd that there'd be an easement prohibiting the community from closing that path but still allowing them to restrict access to the regular roads in the area.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
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    legal and moral issues aside, i find it interesting that the residents found it necessary to install "sleeping policeman" (aka "traffic calmers") on their private road. apparently, even members of the community found that their driving habits were so unsafe that something had to be done to slow down the traffic.

    maybe instead of installing expensive road apparatus to slow the traffic they could have just encouraged use by more stopsign running cyclists. how about that? i think they really just don't like the traffic and "outsiders" in their private community. that's all it really is....

    and if they don't like what's been happening on a normal weekend. wow! are they in for a shock tomorrow! i wouldn't be surprised, as has been mentioned, if they hire some sheriff's deputies to help them ward off the onslaught.
    Last edited by hueyhoolihan; 05-17-13 at 07:18 PM.

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