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-   -   The Mountain Burns :( (http://www.bikeforums.net/northern-california/912001-mountain-burns.html)

DiabloScott 09-13-13 12:37 PM

Cal Fire – “Morgan Fire Caused by Target Shooting”


gw_12 09-13-13 12:56 PM

Not surprising. I've seen and heard people target shooting on the northern end of Morgan Terr Rd several times while riding there in the last few years.

cthenn 09-14-13 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 16062279)
Cal Fire – “Morgan Fire Caused by Target Shooting”


Guns...is there anything they CAN'T do? *sarcasm /off*

DiabloScott 09-16-13 11:43 AM

"All roads to The Park are open."

837-2525 road closure infoline.

bikingshearer 09-17-13 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 16062279)
Cal Fire – “Morgan Fire Caused by Target Shooting”


I think we just identified one or more volunteers to be targets . . . .

Leinster 09-17-13 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 16062279)
Cal Fire – “Morgan Fire Caused by Target Shooting”



Waitasec... guns don't start wildfires...

DiabloScott 09-17-13 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leinster (Post 16076154)
Waitasec... guns don't start wildfires...

I'm not really pro or anti gun... it's not my thing but I know lots of people who enjoy them and use them responsibly.

I wouldn't have put target shooting very high up on the list of things that might cause a fire though - it just doesn't seem that risky. I wonder if the target shooters were smoking at the time.

bikingshearer 09-17-13 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 16076198)
I'm not really pro or anti gun... it's not my thing but I know lots of people who enjoy them and use them responsibly.

I wouldn't have put target shooting very high up on the list of things that might cause a fire though - it just doesn't seem that risky. I wonder if the target shooters were smoking at the time.

That is a possibility, but the shooting itself could have done it. Bullets ricocheting off rocks causes sparks. Sparks in inopportune places cause dry grass to ignite. And so forth.

Between one or more target shooters causing teh Morgan Fire and a bow hunter's illegl camp fire causing the Rim Fire, it hasn't exactly been a banner season, PR-wise, for folks bearng arms.

JoelS 09-17-13 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikingshearer (Post 16076837)
That is a possibility, but the shooting itself could have done it. Bullets ricocheting off rocks causes sparks. Sparks in inopportune places cause dry grass to ignite. And so forth.

Between one or more target shooters causing teh Morgan Fire and a bow hunter's illegl camp fire causing the Rim Fire, it hasn't exactly been a banner season, PR-wise, for folks bearng arms.

Bullets are lead, or lead covered with copper. That doesn't cause sparks, you need steel for that. However, if the shooter was using black powder, that CAN start a fire. I've done it myself at the range, and put it right out. Black powder continues to burn as it leaves the muzzle and can start a fire if the embers land on dry grass or brush. Modern smokeless powder doesn't do that.

LexKing 09-17-13 07:33 PM

Some person of borderline intelligence was most likely shooting tracers, if the fire was started by target practice.

cthenn 09-17-13 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 16071500)
"All roads to The Park are open."

837-2525 road closure infoline.

If anyone takes pics on their way up or down in the next week or so, please post! I'm planning on riding up to the summit tomorrow evening, so I'll take some with my crappy cell phone camera.

bigbossman 09-18-13 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexKing (Post 16077155)
Some person of borderline intelligence was most likely shooting tracers, if the fire was started by target practice.


Well - before we get the rope and pick out a tree, we might consider the "facts" that are known so far:

A resident heard what she presumed was gunfire.
She presumed it was coming from private property that has been used for target practice in the past.
CAL FIRE presumed someone in the area did something associated with the act of target shooting which caused a spark, or something, which caused the fire.
The press proudly announces "Morgan fire caused by target shooters", like it is a verified finding.

They are still investigating the cause of the fire AFAIK, but it could just as easily been a catalytic converter, cigarette smoker, someone burning weeds on their property, kids smoking dope, or any one of a dozen or more possibilities.

Excuse me for being a skeptic, but the press doesn't really do much vetting of sources and "facts" anymore. Every time I have had first-hand knowledge about something I've seen reported on, the account is misleading, factually wrong, omitting critical information, and most often poorly written. Journalism is not what it once was. In the 24 hour news cycle, they are just too pressured to be the first to break the story to be as careful as they should be in checking things for veracity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikingshearer (Post 16076837)
That is a possibility, but the shooting itself could have done it. Bullets ricocheting off rocks causes sparks. Sparks in inopportune places cause dry grass to ignite. And so forth.

Between one or more target shooters causing teh Morgan Fire and a bow hunter's illegl camp fire causing the Rim Fire, it hasn't exactly been a banner season, PR-wise, for folks bearng arms.

1) Lead and copper do not spark when hitting rock, or anything else.... except maybe in the movies. Ricochet - yes, spark - no.

2) conflicting reports on the Rim Fire alternatively pin it on an illegal grow site. Since the "hunter" was claimed to be known but was never identified with no further information was forthcoming, I'm skeptical.

DiabloScott 09-19-13 07:12 AM

Made it as far as the Livermore Valley Overlook last night and didn't see a hint of fire damage. NGR is normal.


cthenn 09-19-13 09:29 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 16082126)
Made it as far as the Livermore Valley Overlook last night and didn't see a hint of fire damage. NGR is normal.


LOL DiabloScott, that's me in the Diablo jersey at 0:10! I was jamming, trying to get up before dark. Made it up to the top, but I didn't take photos until I started back. By then it was too dark, and my cell phone's camera is garbage. But here are a few of the least crappy ones. Once you turn the corner at about 2570' (per Google Earth), about a quarter mile from the Blue Oak Picnic area, it's all burned on the east side of the road, and some on the other side. It looks pretty bad, but a lot of the trees look like they'll make it. The manzanita and other shrubs were toast. Further up the road, there is retardant on the road in places, as well as some dried up mud. Also, there is some minor damage to the road, as it looks like they had some kind of tracked dozer or something on the road. Some of the pavement has track marks on it, which feels like riding on a washboard. Also, some of the pavement near the edge is broken, from the tracks. It's not terrible, but it's too bad because the road is nice and new up there.


First one is from the summit looking east.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=341699

From a mile or so down Summit Road. This is one area where the fire jumped the road and burned on the west side of the road.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=341700

From just below Blue Oak Picnic area, looking east. It's quite a shock when you turn that corner...
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=341702

Crappy quality I know, but it was really cool being up there alone. There was no one at the summit when I got there, and no one came up or down when I rode down. By the time I got to the junction, it was pitch black, and only the full moon gave me a bit of light. I couldn't see the road hardly at all, and I was just hoping not to hit any potholes or cracks. Cold too, forgot my vest! But...it was really cool overall, to have the mountain all to myself after dark.

DiabloScott 09-20-13 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthenn (Post 16085142)
LOL DiabloScott, that's me in the Diablo jersey at 0:10! I was jamming, trying to get up before dark.

You mean you were going that fast up the whole Mountain? :thumb:

Usually when somebody passes me that fast, it's because they saw my video camera and want to look good for my blog post; so they burn a match and then fade when they're out of screen. :lol:

bikingshearer 09-20-13 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoelS (Post 16077128)
Bullets are lead, or lead covered with copper. That doesn't cause sparks, you need steel for that. However, if the shooter was using black powder, that CAN start a fire. I've done it myself at the range, and put it right out. Black powder continues to burn as it leaves the muzzle and can start a fire if the embers land on dry grass or brush. Modern smokeless powder doesn't do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbossman (Post 16079648)
Well - before we get the rope and pick out a tree, we might consider the "facts" that are known so far:

A resident heard what she presumed was gunfire.
She presumed it was coming from private property that has been used for target practice in the past.
CAL FIRE presumed someone in the area did something associated with the act of target shooting which caused a spark, or something, which caused the fire.
The press proudly announces "Morgan fire caused by target shooters", like it is a verified finding.

They are still investigating the cause of the fire AFAIK, but it could just as easily been a catalytic converter, cigarette smoker, someone burning weeds on their property, kids smoking dope, or any one of a dozen or more possibilities.

Excuse me for being a skeptic, but the press doesn't really do much vetting of sources and "facts" anymore. Every time I have had first-hand knowledge about something I've seen reported on, the account is misleading, factually wrong, omitting critical information, and most often poorly written. Journalism is not what it once was. In the 24 hour news cycle, they are just too pressured to be the first to break the story to be as careful as they should be in checking things for veracity.



1) Lead and copper do not spark when hitting rock, or anything else.... except maybe in the movies. Ricochet - yes, spark - no.

2) conflicting reports on the Rim Fire alternatively pin it on an illegal grow site. Since the "hunter" was claimed to be known but was never identified with no further information was forthcoming, I'm skeptical.

Hey, I've already made up my mind here. How dare you two try to confuse me with facts . . . .

DiabloScott 09-21-13 02:27 PM

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-n...2520Pines2.jpg

Called this my Fire and Rain ride.

Anyway, once you get near The Pines picnic area, there's burned patches all the rest of the way to Summit. This valley though seemed to be the worst - from The Pines and all the little picnic area up to Toyon. Most of the picnic grounds were closed with danger signs on them. Muir, which is one of my favorite Diablo Spy Cam locations is totally charred and there's literally nothing left of the picnic table or the outhouse.

gbwindman 09-22-13 12:05 AM

Rode to the summit opening day (Monday), Wednesday, and Friday. Yes, lots of acreage burned. Good news, bad news. The bad news is that the fire was human in origin, putting numerous people and structures in harms way, and the cost of fighting the fire will be the burden of the tax payers. The good news is that in the long run the mountain will be healthier!
During these three rides, I saw four tarantulas, one raccoon, two bobcats, and a chickadee bathing in a drinking fountain basin.

DiabloScott 09-22-13 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbossman (Post 16079648)
Well - before we get the rope and pick out a tree, we might consider the "facts" that are known so far:

A resident heard what she presumed was gunfire.
She presumed it was coming from private property that has been used for target practice in the past.
CAL FIRE presumed someone in the area did something associated with the act of target shooting which caused a spark, or something, which caused the fire.
The press proudly announces "Morgan fire caused by target shooters", like it is a verified finding.

The press is just reporting that CalFire has determined that target shooting was the cause. Then the press reports that CalFire won't release any details about how they know that.

That's what I've seen in all the big media and local news reports.

https://vimeo.com/75164957

gsa103 09-22-13 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 16092721)
The press is just reporting that CalFire has determined that target shooting was the cause. Then the press reports that CalFire won't release any details about how they know that.

That's what I've seen in all the big media and local news reports.

https://vimeo.com/75164957

LOL! I'm the cyclist in black going up the hill at the 3:30 mark with my riding partner. I noticed you filming, but figured there was no way it was actually you.
I see you got caught by the rain. I had just gotten back in my car when the skies opened.

I noticed that the sight lines near the top are much better. So at least the descents are a little safer.

cccorlew 09-22-13 09:55 PM

Rode to the summit with LanceOldStrong and MyLittlePony Sunday, the first day of fall.
I kept thinking how much worse it might have been.
Of course, I made photos.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7333/9...05fa7c0f_z.jpg
First day Fall, Diablo summmit_post fire by ccorlew, on Flickr

DiabloScott 09-23-13 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsa103 (Post 16093722)
figured there was no way it was actually you.

Yeah, cuz I'm the last guy you'd expect to see on Diablo on a Saturday morning.
:roflmao2:
:p

bikingshearer 09-23-13 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 16094283)
Yeah, cuz I'm the last guy you'd expect to see on Diablo on a Saturday morning.
:roflmao2:
:p

You mean you do actually ride up Diablo on Saturday mornings? Who knew . . . . :rolleyes:

DiabloScott 09-23-13 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikingshearer (Post 16095827)
You mean you do actually ride up Diablo on Saturday mornings? Who knew . . . . :rolleyes:


The Strava knows...
http://www.strava.com/athletes/697607

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-x...2520Diablo.jpg

cccorlew 09-23-13 01:56 PM

I just figured he meant it was like seeing a movie star, or Santa Claus. You know they're out there but you don't really expect to see them live.


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