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Old 09-16-13, 05:49 PM   #26
eja_ bottecchia
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As someone remarked in another thread, "the most expensive bike is the one that you don't ride."

I've put over 6,000 miles on my Colnago C59 since I bought it on June 2012. I guess that makes the C59 a relatively inexpensive bike.
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Old 09-16-13, 06:07 PM   #27
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Hey Astro..., I'll help with that comprehension thing..I am a Mensa guy afterall.

He makes two primary points: 1) The incremental benefit differences are small, the incremental price differences are huge, and 2) Chasing these small incremental improvements distorts the purpose of non-race bike riding (fun and fitness) and ends up being an exclusionary factor for new entrants, i.e. high cost to entry impedes market growth.

Carbon fiber frames are going for under $500, check eBay. The $11K Trek he's talking about will be probably be selling used for $3-4K on CL in a year or so, rejoice. I'm surprised he missed the "terrible resale value" diss entirely.

The analogy to smartphones works if you are thinking about these semi-monthly releases of iPhones. And, since I've kept buying up those old dual core XP running machines I have no idea what the CPU market is pushing these days... Have they come out with dual quad cores yet? I think I'll wait for the eighteen wheeler CPUs.
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Old 09-16-13, 07:41 PM   #28
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Hey Astro..., I'll help with that comprehension thing..I am a Mensa guy afterall.

He makes two primary points: 1) The incremental benefit differences are small, the incremental price differences are huge, and 2) Chasing these small incremental improvements distorts the purpose of non-race bike riding (fun and fitness) and ends up being an exclusionary factor for new entrants, i.e. high cost to entry impedes market growth.

Carbon fiber frames are going for under $500, check eBay. The $11K Trek he's talking about will be probably be selling used for $3-4K on CL in a year or so, rejoice. I'm surprised he missed the "terrible resale value" diss entirely.
I'm not sure what you mean by "high cost to entry". Last I checked, brand name road bikes were still starting with three-digit MSRPs.

$11K Treks are purely symbolic (I believe the corresponding term in auto manufacturing is "halo car".) An analogy would be Chevrolet's Corvette ZR1. It is a monster car with 600+ hp supercharged engine and $110,000 sticker price. GM makes fewer than 1000 of those every year - about 0.05% of the total number of Chevrolet branded vehicles. I doubt that the share of $11K bikes in total Trek sales is substantially higher (once you exclude pro racing teams). Besides, no one really buys $11K Treks for the sticker.
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Old 09-16-13, 11:46 PM   #29
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I'll agree, and the last time I walked through Mike's Bikes the sweet spot seemed to be about $1300, some cheaper but nothing over $3900. Still his point about $600 mail order bikes seems valid to me, and that gets you alot of bike for a new rider. I'm hardly a cheap skate, but even as a CF bike owner I get sticker shock walking through my LBS; $500 gets you a used bike parked in the stand out by the tree...down by the river.
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Old 09-16-13, 11:50 PM   #30
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I have one major problem with the whole "BikesDirect is better" attitude, it pre-supposes that you know how to fit a bike. My co-worker has bought two bikes from BD, and in both cases got really good deals. At the same time these forums are full of people who were penny-wise, pound foolish getting bikes from BD.

If you purchase a bike from BD, then add a custom fit and new stem then suddenly the price isn't so cheap. Its great if you have a bike that you like, but for someone just starting out, most people would be far better served by a good LBS.

When I bought my new bike, I explicitly avoid BD, simply because I wanted a better fitting bike. The best way to accomplish that was going to shops and riding a wide range of models.
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Old 09-17-13, 09:14 AM   #31
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This guy pretends that he's concerned about entry level cyclists being turned off by how much it costs to get involved in the sport, but no one goes to a bike store and sees an $11,000 bike and abandons the idea of riding; in fact most stores won't even have the $11,000 bike on view.

Trek sells a road bike for only about $100 more than the Motobecane so he could've made his comparison between the $750 Trek and the $11,500 Trek and made the same points and it wouldn't have sounded so much like an anti-LBS / pro-BD commercial.

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Old 09-17-13, 09:29 AM   #32
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Six thousand miles on an $750 aluminum 16 speed in the last two years. (LBS vs Internet-The service and education is worth the extra coin) Got it when I was Clyder than I am now. Now I sometimes pass $5k Madone's going up Torrey Pines grade. Planning on getting a $2k bike soon, cause its cool and it's my birthday
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Old 09-17-13, 09:41 AM   #33
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I have one major problem with the whole "BikesDirect is better" attitude, it pre-supposes that you know how to fit a bike. My co-worker has bought two bikes from BD, and in both cases got really good deals. At the same time these forums are full of people who were penny-wise, pound foolish getting bikes from BD.

If you purchase a bike from BD, then add a custom fit and new stem then suddenly the price isn't so cheap. Its great if you have a bike that you like, but for someone just starting out, most people would be far better served by a good LBS.

When I bought my new bike, I explicitly avoid BD, simply because I wanted a better fitting bike. The best way to accomplish that was going to shops and riding a wide range of models.
Yeah, the guy buying a $1200 bike at the LBS isn't getting a free custom fit thrown in either. So that argument doesn't hold water. And any bike purchase might require some saddle/handlebar cash infusions.
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Old 09-17-13, 09:55 AM   #34
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I think what is also missed is an educated buyer can get good value on a used bike

My Wilier Mortorolio with full carbon and ultegra cost me 1500 buck and the guy threw in shoes (louis ergos that fit) keo pedals and a wireless speedometer. Bike had a couple hundred mile on it and he did not like road riding because of cars.

It might look like I spent more but who cares its my bike and my money.
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Old 09-17-13, 11:18 AM   #35
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Online bike purchasing - new or used - makes great sense if you already know what size you need, and you have already been fitted, so what you're looking for is another bike which you can set up the same as one that already works. That's how I bought 2 of mine, a new Bianchi 928 back in '06, and a ~'92 Battaglin steel frame thatI built up. In each case, I already knew the size of bike I was looking for because I had previously bought one locally and, once I had built up to riding longer distances, gotten a custom fitting.

If you're buying your first road bike? Not so much. No, you don't get the 1 hour custom fitting, but you can keep coming back until it's right, and often the LBS will swap bars, stems, and saddles till it IS right. You MIGHT be able to properly estimate the proper size, if you have a tape measure and a patient friend.

Sure, you can get a poor-fitting bike at an LBS, especially if you're a novice shopping for bargains and go to a shop trying to unload product. It happened to me, with my first road bike. I went to a MUCH better shop for the second one!
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Old 09-17-13, 12:38 PM   #36
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$100 is $100 and I bet the MB has better parts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post

Trek sells a road bike for only about $100 more than the Motobecane so he could've made his comparison between the $750 Trek and the $11,500 Trek and made the same points and it wouldn't have sounded so much like an anti-LBS / pro-BD commercial.

Last edited by ricebowl; 09-17-13 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 09-17-13, 12:57 PM   #37
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$100 is $100 and I bet the MB has better parts.
$100 probably wouldn't justify a half-hour video screed though, right?

My point was that the video guy is comparing a cheap bike to an expensive bike, but it looks like he's comparing BD vs Trek and the models he chose were totally biased. He might just as well have compared the cheap Trek below to the Motobecane with Di2 ($2500) and come up with the same results but a different bias.

He also could've compared the cheap Trek to the expensive Trek and talked about what you get for the extra money (his opinion = not worth it). Or he could've done the same thing with two Motobecanes. Instead he picked his own cheap bike - probably the cheapest bike anybody would want to ride on a regular basis - to the most expensive bike he could find on the internet so he could mock anyone who spends more than he did and thereby justify his own philosophy of thriftiness.

And the motorcycle comparison thing comes up a lot too - how can a bicycle be worth more than a motorcycle? It's a red herring. Why did he buy a Ninja though, instead of a generic motorcycle from MotoDirect.com?


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Old 09-17-13, 01:05 PM   #38
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I got my first road bike at an REI... turns out it was a size too small.

Fast-forward 5 years and I had dumped it, gone back to MTBing and was ready for another road machine. I had borrowed my friend's Madone and taken it for a metric, so I knew about what size I was by then. I then went and ordered online. I'm cheap (I had kids on the way) and I like working on bikes. So I have had the Fantom CX ever since.
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Old 09-17-13, 01:47 PM   #39
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I have a BikesDirect Motobecane Fantom Cross Outlaw. I like it a lot and feel like it was a good deal. I've set it up as my commuter and commute on it every day. No serious complaints.

That said, I also have an full Ultegra Specialized Roubaix that I am in love with. It's just more fun to ride. It's like having a station wagon and a sports car. You may need the wagon, but you love the sports car. I'm not fast, but the Roubaix makes me as fast as I ever could be. And it feels great. It makes it more fun to work hard because the bike responds and goes faster in a way I can feel. I am so darn happy every time I get on it it is likely worth a ton more than I actually paid. I sure get more enjoyment out of it than any car I ever had. Even my Miata.

So, yeah, I don't need a Roubaix, bike clothes, gloves, Sidi shoes, or a Garmin. But considering how much I enjoy having them, unlike some crap I found I was wasting money on (cable TV anyone?) it would be silly not to.


Motobecane Fantom Outlaw commuter bike, not bad at all by ccorlew, on Flickr


Roubaix, complete with white wall tires, because it pleases me. by ccorlew, on Flickr
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Old 03-21-14, 02:37 PM   #40
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BTW, you certainly don't need to spend $11K, or even $1K for a bike that people admire. People stare at me and my mtn bike (converted with skinny tires) all the time. They start up conversations, ask me questions, wave hello and smile at me every time I go out riding.

I spent well under $1K on my bike.
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Old 03-21-14, 03:22 PM   #41
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Old 03-21-14, 09:17 PM   #42
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Non gear sports: running, tennis, bowling

Even at $10,000 for a bike, I'll bet the enjoyment time per dollar is generally a lot higher than for personal airplanes, fancy cars, or boats.

I wonder if there are people on the Yachting forums who make videos about how no one really NEEDS a gigabuck yacht and most folks should be buying the budget model from YachtsDirect.com for half a mil or less because this is just getting ridiculous.
good point.

that people spend money on stuff they don't need is not so irritating... it's that i'm NOT BENEFITING from any of it. that's what makes me sick. for the love of god, throw some of it MY way!

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Old 03-21-14, 10:06 PM   #43
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Buy what makes you want to ride.
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Old 03-25-14, 12:46 PM   #44
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At the risk of replying to a Lazarus thread, and off topic to boot...

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B
DiabloScott[/B];16600178]Non gear sports: running, tennis, bowling
Actually, bowling is *worse* than cycling when it comes to the perceived role of equipment. Go spend some time on ballreviews.com or bowlingchat.net, and what you read will make your head spin.
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Old 03-25-14, 01:19 PM   #45
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At the risk of replying to a Lazarus thread, and off topic to boot...



Actually, bowling is *worse* than cycling when it comes to the perceived role of equipment. Go spend some time on ballreviews.com or bowlingchat.net, and what you read will make your head spin.
although i'm not a bowler, i have no doubt that what you say is true.
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