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  1. #1
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    Questionable Behavior

    Yesterday afternoon at 1500 I completed a ride home from Astoria by riding across the GG Bridge. As I was half an hour early, the westside walkway wasn't open. As EVERYONE of sound mind knows, when the westside is closed, the east side walkway is cluttered with hundreds of tourists walking or riding rental bikes that are paying attention to the view, and not much else.

    So someone please tell me why I saw 4-5 spandex clad warriors slaloming thru this mass "at speed", with absolutely no consideration of anyone but their own self centered libido?

    Damn it, the rest of us have to live with the consequences of your crap behavior, so knock it the f-k off. I was in more danger from you idiots than I was from the hundreds of logging trucks that passed me in the last 10 days. You guys know better.

  2. #2
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    Happens on every MUP in the world. The best way to piss them off is to simply ride your ride and take the lane. Then they have to pass when its safe. I agree though a group ride of roadies (or a convey of bling mountain bikers) can be the worst thing on a MUP.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick94804 View Post
    Yesterday afternoon at 1500 I completed a ride home from Astoria by riding across the GG Bridge. As I was half an hour early, the westside walkway wasn't open. As EVERYONE of sound mind knows, when the westside is closed, the east side walkway is cluttered with hundreds of tourists walking or riding rental bikes that are paying attention to the view, and not much else.

    So someone please tell me why I saw 4-5 spandex clad warriors slaloming thru this mass "at speed", with absolutely no consideration of anyone but their own self centered libido?

    Damn it, the rest of us have to live with the consequences of your crap behavior, so knock it the f-k off. I was in more danger from you idiots than I was from the hundreds of logging trucks that passed me in the last 10 days. You guys know better.
    My, my, I expect to hear of thousands of serious injuries and death attributed to this handful of cyclists. What a menace that has been unleashed upon us: cyclists who don't ride as the OP wants them to.

    I'm sure you are equally angry at the scofflaw motorists you encounter as you drive who give all motorists a bad name by injuring 2.4 Million and killing 35 Thousand Americans each and every year.

    Actually, I'm sorry you had such a downer trip. If it had been more fun, then you wouldn't have had so much pent-up anger at a handful of people who were out enjoying themselves. Next time, pick a better route than the Pacific Coast. That one is obviously too stressful for you.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
    My, my, I expect to hear of thousands of serious injuries and death attributed to this handful of cyclists. What a menace that has been unleashed upon us: cyclists who don't ride as the OP wants them to.

    I'm sure you are equally angry at the scofflaw motorists you encounter as you drive who give all motorists a bad name by injuring 2.4 Million and killing 35 Thousand Americans each and every year.

    Actually, I'm sorry you had such a downer trip. If it had been more fun, then you wouldn't have had so much pent-up anger at a handful of people who were out enjoying themselves. Next time, pick a better route than the Pacific Coast. That one is obviously too stressful for you.
    poor arguments in support of poor behavior.

  5. #5
    blt
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
    My, my, I expect to hear of thousands of serious injuries and death attributed to this handful of cyclists. What a menace that has been unleashed upon us: cyclists who don't ride as the OP wants them to.

    I'm sure you are equally angry at the scofflaw motorists you encounter as you drive who give all motorists a bad name by injuring 2.4 Million and killing 35 Thousand Americans each and every year.

    Actually, I'm sorry you had such a downer trip. If it had been more fun, then you wouldn't have had so much pent-up anger at a handful of people who were out enjoying themselves. Next time, pick a better route than the Pacific Coast. That one is obviously too stressful for you.
    I think you fail to understand many things. "Motorists" somehow manage to have far better PR than they deserve. The scofflaw motorists I encounter are, indeed, too many, even if a small minority of drivers. Yet no one paints them with a broad brush, "motorists" don't get a bad rep because of it, it is the "bad" drivers out there that have a bad rep, even though the percentage of "bad" drivers is greater than most like to acknowledge.

    This is partly because a lot of bad drivers get lucky enough to get away with their bad driving and not kill anyone. I think of 2 bad drivers I know of recently who totaled their cars with reckless driving in situations where they could easily have taken out another motorist or a bicycle, and both were lucky enough to wind up with single vehicle accidents. The reaction isn't, "Another terrible motorist," but more like, "Boy, were they lucky!"

    Well, they were lucky, but I wish they weren't driving on the roads I share with them both in my car and on my bike. They were both driving in a dangerous fashion that risked not only their own lives but the lives of others. Oddly, though, if I express my feelings to their friends or family about their dangerous driving and the risk to the lives of others, I get this reaction: "My, my, I expect to hear of thousands of serious injuries and death attributed to these couple of motorists. What a menace that has been unleashed upon us: motorists who don't drive as blt wants them to." Well, if those drivers continue to drive in the fashion they have been driving, the odds are pretty darned good that death will happen somewhere along the way.

    They are motorists who are driving in a manner that risks the health and safety of other people, with absolutely no consideration of anyone but their own self centered libido. Yes, I don't want them to drive that way, but this isn't purely out of selfish interest, or because I think the world should operate in the way I want it to. It is because I value the health and safety of other human beings.

    You may as well say, "What's wrong with you, OP, nobody was hurt, who cares if cyclists ride in a manner that risk the lives and health of others, so long as, in that particular ride, no one is hurt?" Well, if they keep riding that way, there likely will be injuries.

    Unfortunately, it goes beyond that, because cyclists have worse PR than the motorists. Most of those pedestrians on the bridge are motorists. Other motorists and passengers (most of whom are motorists at times) can see the cyclists on the bridge. It means that among motorists, cyclists will have a worse reputation than we deserve. When a small handful of cyclists ride in a reckless manner with no care for others, it hurts the reputation of all cyclists. Is that fair, when bad motorists don't hurt the reputation of all motorists? No, it isn't fair. But it is reality, and we cyclists should face reality. When motorists think cyclists have a bad reputation, they often treat cyclists worse than they should, whether those cyclists are part of that small group that don't care about the health and safety of others, or whether they are reasonable, cautious cyclists. Sometimes those motorists who think that cyclists have a bad reputation don't act in as safe a manner as they should around all cyclists. And motorist versus cyclists is not a fair fight.

    I'm not sure what you are angry at, but you shouldn't be angry at those who want other cyclists to ride with respect for the health and safety of others. Those of us who desire that other cyclists ride with respect for the health and safety of others want that both a) for the health and safety of others, and b) so that our health and safety isn't endangered by the fact that "cyclists" have a bad reputation. Yes, I want motorists to drive with respect for the health and safety of others as well, and motorists endanger more lives when they drive recklessly more than cyclists do when they ride recklessly, and the numbers of deaths and injuries caused by reckless cyclists versus those caused by reckless motorists is pretty negligible. But having anger towards reckless motorists doesn't mean that we should give reckless cyclists a free pass to endanger the health and safety of others, especially when cyclists who do so negatively affect the reputation of all of us cyclists and put us in more danger from reckless motorists. I really don't understand why you want to attack an attack on unjustifiable behavior.

  6. #6
    Senior Member RPK79's Avatar
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    Did they wave as they went by?

  7. #7
    It's MY mountain DiabloScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blt View Post
    Most of those pedestrians on the bridge are motorists. Other motorists and passengers (most of whom are motorists at times) can see the cyclists on the bridge. It means that among motorists, cyclists will have a worse reputation than we deserve.
    The absolute worst cyclists on the bridge are motorists who are non-cyclists that rented a bike and have no idea about cycling safety, etiquette, or skills. The lycra riders may startle the pedestrians but in general don't make unsafe moves. The rental riders are completely unpredictable even when they're looking right at you.
    http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/

  8. #8
    Bourbon junkie ricebowl's Avatar
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    It's hard to say. There are riders that weave their way through the GGB walkway with grace and aplomb. There are some that put other users of the bridge at risk due to their hurried pace.

    I'd say lycra clad riders have made me pucker more times than tourists. But my closest call was with a tourist walking. Just jumped right into my path to get a photo, I was about 4 feet away. Good thing I was beat and just limping along.

    Remember folks living car free isn't just a lifestyle it's an attitude.
    Last edited by ricebowl; 06-30-14 at 03:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
    Show me just one law that says that a person has a right to exercise their judgement or common sense, just one.

  9. #9
    Senior Member curbtender's Avatar
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    You can only wear spandex and walk in funny shoes if you live in glass houses.
    “At 50, everyone has the face he deserves.”
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  10. #10
    blt
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
    The absolute worst cyclists on the bridge are motorists who are non-cyclists that rented a bike and have no idea about cycling safety, etiquette, or skills. The lycra riders may startle the pedestrians but in general don't make unsafe moves. The rental riders are completely unpredictable even when they're looking right at you.
    A caveat to what I write, I can only write things based on my personal experiences on the GGB, and on the east side, I've been a ped more often than a cyclist.

    The rental riders may be the "worst" cyclists on the bridge, but they are not the most dangerous. The key word you use is "in general." True, "in general," the lycra riders don't make unsafe moves. 3 things, however. 1) When that small percentage of lycra riders who make unsafe moves make their unsafe moves, they are going a lot faster than the rental riders, and are a bigger danger than the rental riders, 2) the rental riders are at least predictably unpredictable, whereas "in general" the lycra riders don't make unsafe moves and thus the unsafe ones are more unpredictably unpredictable, and 3) it isn't only the rental riders, but the peds who are completely unpredictable -- a big part of what makes a certain small number of lycra riders be more unsafe than rental riders, aside from speed, is that a small number act like the peds and rental riders are going to be predictable, when, in fact, those peds and rental riders are predictably unpredictable -- slaloming through peds and rental riders, regardless of the skill level of the rider, is inherently unsafe in large part because of the unpredictable behavior of those peds and rental riders.

    The only collision I ever saw on the east sidewalk was a lycra rider who collided with a ped who made an unpredictable move. In this case, the lycra rider (and his bike) seemed to pay a bigger price than the ped, although the ped took a nasty spill. The only near collision I had on my bike on the east sidewalk was when I was riding slowly and carefully to avoid predictably unpredictable moves, had to make a sudden move in response to an unpredictable move from a ped, then almost got hit from behind by a zooming roadie who wasn't at all prepared for anything unpredictable ahead.

    Among us non-tourists, tourists in general have a reputation for being a problem, even though it is a small percentage of them who are problems. It would be nice if all us cyclists weren't painted with the same negative brush due to the sins of a few, but I'm not holding my breath for that to happen.

  11. #11
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    I do wish people who have "the need for speed" would not use MUPs to get it. Pretty obnoxious, especially mixed in with the inexperienced types.

  12. #12
    Senior Member yochris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
    The absolute worst cyclists on the bridge are motorists who are non-cyclists that rented a bike and have no idea about cycling safety, etiquette, or skills. The lycra riders may startle the pedestrians but in general don't make unsafe moves. The rental riders are completely unpredictable even when they're looking right at you.

    Yea gotta disagree with this. On the off chance that i ride at a time when the west side is not open (rarely, intentionally so), I find the agro roadies way more of a menace. As been said, at least the tourists on rental bikes are going so slow they aren't likely to cause real damage. However I have had countless road warriors right on my ass blowing their whistles for people to get out of the way (seriously the whistles are ridiculous). When you are behind a line of 10 bikes with nowhere to go a little patience is required but a lot of times those dudes can't be bothered and try to squeeze through non-existent space.

    As a side note, I see no real reason the west side can't be open all the time.

  13. #13
    Senior Member curbtender's Avatar
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    Yep, it just takes one guy in front to lead the rest astray. Tight roadway oblivious pedestrians, speed should be under 10 mph. Ha, how many of those guys were using their bells?
    “At 50, everyone has the face he deserves.”
    ― George Orwell

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