Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > > >

Pacific Northwest Idaho | Oregon | Washington | Alaska

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-31-08, 08:03 PM   #1
vrkelley
Enjoy
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Seattle metro
Bikes: Trek 5200
Posts: 6,164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Car Free Street Experiment

Guess they're going to try to make several Seattle streets car-free for a day.

URL http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...rfree31m0.html
MAP http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABP...2008083031.pdf
vrkelley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-08, 11:34 PM   #2
FlowerBlossom
My tank takes chocolate.
 
FlowerBlossom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Olympia, WA
Bikes: Trek 600 series touring bike, Trek 800 hybrid, Bianchi
Posts: 6,344
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I wish I could be enthusiastic about this. But, this sure reads to me as green-washing.

Why aren't they doing this, say, in the Pike's Place Market area? Wouldn't THAT be something to get excited about.
__________________
Feminism is the profound notion that women are human beings.
FlowerBlossom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-08, 12:43 AM   #3
donnamb 
tired
 
donnamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: Breezer Uptown 8, U frame
Posts: 5,651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I went to the one in Portland. It was really, really fun.
__________________
"Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."
donnamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-08, 08:26 AM   #4
CliftonGK1
Senior Member
 
CliftonGK1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Columbus, OH
Bikes: '08 Surly Cross-Check, 2011 Redline Conquest Pro, 2012 Spesh FSR Comp EVO, 2015 Trek Domane 6.2 disc
Posts: 11,380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowerBlossom View Post
I wish I could be enthusiastic about this. But, this sure reads to me as green-washing.

Why aren't they doing this, say, in the Pike's Place Market area? Wouldn't THAT be something to get excited about.
This wouldn't work with PPM. The daily vendors wouldn't have close access to set up their tables (those are fully torn down nightly), and the permanent vendors wouldn't have close access to bring in fresh produce (delivered by vehicle directly to the back of each booth on the arcade.)
As a tourism destination, the loss of parking at/around the market would cause a huge decrease in the volume of people. Tour vans use the market cut-through as a pick-up/drop-off point for large groups. While I think it would be nice to walk/bike through the market without worrying about being backed into by a delivery truck, from an economic standpoint I doubt the vendors would support it.
CliftonGK1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-08, 10:26 AM   #5
FlowerBlossom
My tank takes chocolate.
 
FlowerBlossom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Olympia, WA
Bikes: Trek 600 series touring bike, Trek 800 hybrid, Bianchi
Posts: 6,344
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Donna, it would be very, very fun. But, the locations proposed for Seattle are somewhat obscure, or "safe" areas that might not attract a lot of attention. They would be too far away for me to bother checking out, anyways. Thus, the people in those neighborhoods will benefit. Which, is super great, but, at the moment I don't understand how it's good for Seattle as a whole. Perhaps, these are simply 'test areas', and they connect the test areas to more test areas, and over time they create a continuous car-free zone throughout Seattle. If I understand correctly, Bogota Columbia set it up this way, a major artery is closed down entirely. (I might be wrong, I need to do some fact-checking).

But, in reality, I see these as more like farmer's markets, where small pockets will be car-free. But, I'm not going to drive to West Seattle (Alki) to bike for a few car-free blocks.

I think that if the city of Seattle was clever enough, they could set the car-free area to be a specific period of time on Sunday, not all day, as a compromise. Thus, in the case of Pikes Place Market, let's say 9am to 5pm. Before and after, vendors would be able to set up, park the cars, and tear down the same as always. If you run the buses so that they are 2-3 blocks from Pikes Place Market (for example), then, people minimize the amount they have to walk.

Of course, then, there would be people who would complain that it's not a true car-free day because it's not all day.

[edit:] After looking at the map again, the Alki route would be fun; it's got some fabulous views. It's going to be more crowded than it already is.
__________________
Feminism is the profound notion that women are human beings.

Last edited by FlowerBlossom; 08-01-08 at 10:30 AM.
FlowerBlossom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-08, 10:29 AM   #6
donnamb 
tired
 
donnamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: Breezer Uptown 8, U frame
Posts: 5,651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ours wasn't all day. That was the bad part. No one wanted it to end.
__________________
"Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."
donnamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-08, 10:42 AM   #7
BengeBoy 
Senior Member
 
BengeBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
Bikes: 2014 Pivot Mach 5.7 MTB, 2009 Chris Boedeker custom, 1988 Tommasini Prestige, 2007 Bill Davidson custom; 1988 Specialized Stumpjumper
Posts: 6,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Interesting.

The closure on Alki makes an already nice ride that much more relaxing. It's a flat ride, you can get there easily from downtown Seattle or from the Eastside (via the I90 bike tunnel), or you could combine it with a ride along the Duwamish River.

The Rainier Avenue closure is interesting to me as well. One of my regular rides is around the southern end of Lake Washington....this gives me an excuse to take a detour, ride over to Rainier and cruise through Columbia City, and then scoot back over to the Lake to finish the ride. Likewise, people who live up in Seattle could come south along the lake front and then come over to Columbia City.

Bikeworks, our very interesting local bike co-op, is located just off Rainier Avenue so we should all drop into Bikeworks and pick up some chain lube or something to support a very worthy bike-related organization.
BengeBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-08, 11:48 AM   #8
ngateguy
Center of the Universe
 
ngateguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Everett, WA
Bikes: Bianchi San Remo, Norvara Intrepid MTB , Softride Solo 700
Posts: 4,370
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CliftonGK1 View Post
This wouldn't work with PPM. The daily vendors wouldn't have close access to set up their tables (those are fully torn down nightly), and the permanent vendors wouldn't have close access to bring in fresh produce (delivered by vehicle directly to the back of each booth on the arcade.)
As a tourism destination, the loss of parking at/around the market would cause a huge decrease in the volume of people. Tour vans use the market cut-through as a pick-up/drop-off point for large groups. While I think it would be nice to walk/bike through the market without worrying about being backed into by a delivery truck, from an economic standpoint I doubt the vendors would support it.
They could and would allow local access by the vendors. the street closures being discussed allow for local access by the residents and vendors.
__________________
Matthew 6
ngateguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-08, 12:07 PM   #9
hurricane harry
Senior Member
 
hurricane harry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seattle
Bikes: Novara Randonee/DRZ400S
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CliftonGK1 View Post
This wouldn't work with PPM. The daily vendors wouldn't have close access to set up their tables (those are fully torn down nightly), and the permanent vendors wouldn't have close access to bring in fresh produce (delivered by vehicle directly to the back of each booth on the arcade.)
As a tourism destination, the loss of parking at/around the market would cause a huge decrease in the volume of people. Tour vans use the market cut-through as a pick-up/drop-off point for large groups. While I think it would be nice to walk/bike through the market without worrying about being backed into by a delivery truck, from an economic standpoint I doubt the vendors would support it.
Actually, many vendors keep their tables in storage lockers in the basements of the market buildings. Closing pike place to vehicles might be a good thing. If you have ever driven through on a busy day, you know it takes forever because of all the peds walking on the road. All of that unused road space could be used for more vendors. Buses could use western ave.
hurricane harry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-08, 12:14 PM   #10
CliftonGK1
Senior Member
 
CliftonGK1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Columbus, OH
Bikes: '08 Surly Cross-Check, 2011 Redline Conquest Pro, 2012 Spesh FSR Comp EVO, 2015 Trek Domane 6.2 disc
Posts: 11,380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurricane harry View Post
Actually, many vendors keep their tables in storage lockers in the basements of the market buildings.
(In my best Johnny Carson impersonation) I did not know that.

I've always seen day vendors setting up tables and items out of vans/trucks. I was unaware of any on-site storage space at the market.
CliftonGK1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-08, 02:52 PM   #11
FlowerBlossom
My tank takes chocolate.
 
FlowerBlossom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Olympia, WA
Bikes: Trek 600 series touring bike, Trek 800 hybrid, Bianchi
Posts: 6,344
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I didn't know that either. I too have seen too many a van outside the market, assumed everyone had to bring in their stuff for the day and pack back up, like at the other farmers markets around town.
__________________
Feminism is the profound notion that women are human beings.
FlowerBlossom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-08, 03:45 PM   #12
randya
Senior Member
 
randya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in bed with your mom
Bikes: who cares?
Posts: 13,689
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Last Thursday on Alberta Street goes car free
randya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-08, 08:45 PM   #13
FlowerBlossom
My tank takes chocolate.
 
FlowerBlossom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Olympia, WA
Bikes: Trek 600 series touring bike, Trek 800 hybrid, Bianchi
Posts: 6,344
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for posting that Randya.

I think small first and expand bigger, later might be the best thing afterall.
__________________
Feminism is the profound notion that women are human beings.
FlowerBlossom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-08, 02:17 PM   #14
vrkelley
Enjoy
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Seattle metro
Bikes: Trek 5200
Posts: 6,164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
On streets where bikes hold up traffic, setting aside a separate street might be big win for everyone. When I first saw the article, I envisioned that they'd close a key Seattle street during rush hour to see if more bike/peds would use it as a safer route. The routes they posted didn't seem like heavy bike commute areas.
vrkelley is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:59 AM.