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Old 03-22-10, 02:26 PM   #1
woodway
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To the four idiots on the Sammamish River Trail Friday evening

Maybe you are reading this, maybe you are not. But to the four idiots who were pacelining on the Sammamish River Trail friday evening around 5:30PM heading south just past Red Hook - what the hell were you guys thinking?

It was a friday evening, the sun was out and the temperature was over 60 degrees - did you not think that the trail would be crowded with walkers, runners, bladers, baby joggers and kids on bikes?

I could not catch the name/logos on your matching team kit you were blasting down the trail so fast. With that tailwind behind you, I would guess you were going somewhere between 25-30MPH. I only got a quick glimpse of you as you came around the corner and cut between a jogger and the family on bicycles at full throttle.

If you want to practice your pacelining, that's fine, but head out into the Snohomish River Valley to do it on a friday night. Your giving the rest of us a bad name.

Sorry for the rant. Meant to post it over the weekend, but I was still thinking about it today and figured better late than never.
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Old 03-22-10, 07:49 PM   #2
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+1 I agree MUP are not a place to train or practice paceline riding. We have almost been whacked a few times on the Foothills trail
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Old 03-23-10, 01:42 AM   #3
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I am not guilty of this particular offense but I got yelled at the other day (3/19) on the Burke Gilman Trail just outside of University Village for passing a child too fast. I was going 14.4 mph but for the conditions it was too fast. Given my experience and age, I really should have known better. So, to the guy who yelled, "Dude, slow down!" as he came the other way, and to the others on the trail, I apologize. For the rest of the ride, I slowed down to around 8 mph in similar situations.

Now that the weather is getting better it almost feels like the BGT is a dangerous place to ride.
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Old 03-24-10, 12:45 PM   #4
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Was it these guys?

More than once I've ended up shoulder to shoulder with their paceline as they insist on passing when there's oncoming traffic.

The only other teams I've seen on the SRT/BGT are Recycled Cycles (blue/gold) and Starbucks (green/white), but I've never had an issue with either of them.
Other local teams which might be on the trail:
- Cucina Fresca (black & white w/red trim)
- Woodinville Bicycle (red & white w/ black trim)
- Amgen (white/blue)
- Hagens Berman (white & blue w/ black & yellow trim)
Although, I haven't actually spotted any of those teams on the trails before; only out on the roads.
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Old 03-24-10, 01:33 PM   #5
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Was it these guys?

More than once I've ended up shoulder to shoulder with their paceline as they insist on passing when there's oncoming traffic.
Pretty high probability, Clifton. I could not read the names on the jerseys, but the colors are right.
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Old 03-24-10, 02:25 PM   #6
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not doing any great public service on behalf of their sponsors. I've ridden around some wearing those jerseys, and they don't seem to bring much common sense along
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Old 03-24-10, 03:23 PM   #7
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I have most of the local teams' colors memorized and I contact the teams when I see them creating problems for me or other folks. However, I've found that the teams that ride like a**holes also respond like a**holes when you try to contact them.

Therefore, I look up their sponsors and contact the ones that are cycling related. I make sure I get in touch with the manager or owner (not just whoever answers the phone). I then describe the incident I witnessed, and the time, and ask the sponsor to contact the team on my behalf. I also tell the sponsors that I am happy to contact the police next, and I am.

I try to avoid busy MUP's, especially on weekends, but I have to take some on my daily commute, and I have to cross the I90 trail frequently. I think any team that does pacelines on the I90 trail is asking for trouble.

I would like to ask any of you also bothered by team behavior on the MUP's to start calling sponsors as well.
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Old 03-24-10, 03:34 PM   #8
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I would like to ask any of you also bothered by team behavior on the MUP's to start calling sponsors as well.
This is precisely why if I'm having a bad week at work, I make sure to wear my Seattle Randonneurs jersey on my commute. It forces me to be nice, so I don't make a bad name for the club.
If I'm having a bad week and I wear my Cinzano jersey, may the gods have mercy on whomever pisses me off.
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Old 03-24-10, 06:06 PM   #9
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I have most of the local teams' colors memorized and I contact the teams when I see them creating problems for me or other folks. However, I've found that the teams that ride like a**holes also respond like a**holes when you try to contact them.

Therefore, I look up their sponsors and contact the ones that are cycling related. I make sure I get in touch with the manager or owner (not just whoever answers the phone). I then describe the incident I witnessed, and the time, and ask the sponsor to contact the team on my behalf. I also tell the sponsors that I am happy to contact the police next, and I am.

I try to avoid busy MUP's, especially on weekends, but I have to take some on my daily commute, and I have to cross the I90 trail frequently. I think any team that does pacelines on the I90 trail is asking for trouble.

I would like to ask any of you also bothered by team behavior on the MUP's to start calling sponsors as well.
Feel free to contact sponsors, but please, DO call and complain to the team/team site as well. I would want to hear complaints to straighten up our teammates.
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Old 03-24-10, 07:57 PM   #10
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Back in the old days when I lived there the trails were less crowded, but you still wouldn't ride paceline on either the BG or SRT. You left that for West Valley Road or 507 and maybe Lake Wash Blvd in the city. Here in NYC you'd be laughed off the road if you tried that on the West Side Bikeway, cause only poseurs would try. Central Park is OK when it isn't crowded as you have 3 lanes, no cars and it is one way only.

I'll be in Seattle with bike in May and I'm going to ride all my old routes and BG and SRT will certainly be part of it, so I'll see.
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Old 03-24-10, 08:41 PM   #11
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The best paceline roads around here now (IMO) are Snoqualmie Valley Rd (Eastside), Pioneer Hwy (North/Skagit Valley), SR 410 and Auburn-Black Diamond Rd (South). Don't know much of the westside and Downtown, unfortunately.
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Old 03-24-10, 10:12 PM   #12
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Maybe they were heading down to Marymoor to practice pacelining in the velodrome. If I see them again I will be sure to make the call. Whoever it was, it was dangerous and really gives all cyclists a bad name.
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Old 03-24-10, 11:30 PM   #13
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Your giving the rest of us a bad name.
Here we go again, whine, whine, whine "Your giving the rest of us a bad name." BS .

Guess what guys, it is likely that the trail (MUP) was built with 80-85% of the funding coming from the Federal Department of Transportation FDOT under the Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991 (Public Law 102-240; ISTEA) or one of the many reauthorization acts. Whoever requested that funding for your MUP, had to certify that a primary use of the trail was for transportation purposes. Now that the MUP was funded and built mostly for transportation, you guys decide to whine about cyclist using the MUP at transportation speeds.

If you guys want a MUP exclusively for recreation with only walking/jogging speeds of under 10 mph, go get your local funding for that purpose, and stop lying to FDOT about the purpose of your MUP.
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Old 03-24-10, 11:57 PM   #14
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Here we go again, whine, whine, whine "Your giving the rest of us a bad name." BS .

Guess what guys, it is likely that the trail (MUP) was built with 80-85% of the funding coming from the Federal Department of Transportation FDOT under the Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991 (Public Law 102-240; ISTEA) or one of the many reauthorization acts. Whoever requested that funding for your MUP, had to certify that a primary use of the trail was for transportation purposes. Now that the MUP was funded and built mostly for transportation, you guys decide to whine about cyclist using the MUP at transportation speeds.

If you guys want a MUP exclusively for recreation with only walking/jogging speeds of under 10 mph, go get your local funding for that purpose, and stop lying to FDOT about the purpose of your MUP.
I think you are seriously missing the point. Come over and ride some of our trails here with us -- there is a mix of walkers, dog-walkers, kids in strollers, slow cyclists, and medium-fast cyclists. Then, you add to that mix 10 or 12 guys in full racing kit doing a paceline, or a double paceline, barrelling through at 25 mph, and you have real danger on your hands. One of the trails I frequent -- it's actually a bikeway on the bridge over Lake Washington -- is wide enough for two cyclists to pass each other in the opposite direction, maybe 3 if everyone is going slow. But I've been faced with a racing team coming at me riding two abreast; I've had to actually slow down and stop and pull way over to the right when they approach to make sure I didn't get knocked over.

I don't think it matters who paid for the MUP. Riding at excess speed on a crowded MUP isn't safe.
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Old 03-25-10, 06:05 AM   #15
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Old 03-25-10, 06:33 AM   #16
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Now that the MUP was funded and built mostly for transportation, you guys decide to whine about cyclist using the MUP at transportation speeds.
So, this transportation speed you speak of is a fixed number? That can not and will not be varied, even when traffic or other conditions warrant? How does it work in road traffic?

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Old 03-25-10, 07:05 AM   #17
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If you guys want a MUP exclusively for recreation with only walking/jogging speeds of under 10 mph, go get your local funding for that purpose, and stop lying to FDOT about the purpose of your MUP.
Regardless of the funding source, the posted speed limit on the Sammamish River and Burke-Gilman Trails is 15mph.
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Old 03-25-10, 08:43 AM   #18
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Four guys practicing pacelining on a trail crowded with non-cyclicts is not transportation, it's selfish stupidity. I was cycling home from work (transportation) and had no problem riding in a safe manner at a reasonable speed given the conditions. Maybe in Hawaii they post signs on the trails that say "everyone must stay out of the way of the cyclists travelling at high speed", but unfortunately for us there are no such signs on any of the trails I have ridden in Washington State.
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Old 03-25-10, 09:15 AM   #19
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Also, I highly doubt these guys are pacelining. Granted, they are riding single file.... but I doubt they are pulling through each other. How would you rather have 4 friends riding their bikes? 2-3 abreast like the rest of the people on the BG?

That being said, Im would be willing to bet they were going too fast.... rag on them for that an not passing safey.... not for the fact they are riding single file.
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Old 03-25-10, 09:41 AM   #20
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Also, I highly doubt these guys are pacelining. Granted, they are riding single file.... but I doubt they are pulling through each other.
Not specifically referring to the 4 guys in the OP, but just to the folks I have seen:

- What do you call a group of riders who are riding with 12 to 24 inches between them, riding at 20 to 25 mph, where the leaders keep pulling out to the side and rotating to the back of the group?

I call that pacelining, but happy to stand corrected.

Equally bad is a large team is just transiting somewhere together on a MUP, so they are riding two abreast chatting, still going 20-ish, and so wrapped up in their conversation that they don't bother watching out for pedestrians, kids, other cyclists, etc. They may not be 'pacelining,' but are still a hazard.
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Old 03-25-10, 01:32 PM   #21
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Also, I highly doubt these guys are pacelining. Granted, they are riding single file.... but I doubt they are pulling through each other. How would you rather have 4 friends riding their bikes? 2-3 abreast like the rest of the people on the BG?

That being said, Im would be willing to bet they were going too fast.... rag on them for that an not passing safey.... not for the fact they are riding single file.
If they would have been going 10MPH in single file I never would have been compelled to post. We are in agreement that pacelining is not relevant. That fact that they were hauling ass down a crowded trail is relevant. Seems like this thread has run it's course...
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Old 03-25-10, 04:00 PM   #22
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CB HI : Glad you are in Hawaii. Hope you stay there
At least the Pearl Harbor Bike Path is an actual bike path for cyclist. And none of the money for it came from ISTEA. Activities on it other than police enforcement, maintenance and cycling are against the city law.

Hope you guys enjoy your 8 mph transportation corridors.

Oddly, a search of Washington papers does not turn up the numersous, serious collisions that have been caused by these horrible cyclist (maybe you could post all of them). I guess these cyclist are able to hold a line far better than those here give them credit.
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Old 03-25-10, 04:25 PM   #23
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Oddly, a search of Washington papers does not turn up the numersous, serious collisions that have been caused by these horrible cyclist (maybe you could post all of them). I guess these cyclist are able to hold a line far better than those here give them credit.
So awesome that you are now the expert on our local bike trails. I'll send the medical bills your way, too.
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Old 03-25-10, 05:45 PM   #24
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I've seen you all over the islands, the locals are cool for the most part, your type MMMmnot so much.
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Old 03-25-10, 06:02 PM   #25
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If they would have been going 10MPH in single file I never would have been compelled to post. We are in agreement that pacelining is not relevant. That fact that they were hauling ass down a crowded trail is relevant. Seems like this thread has run it's course...
Agreed. its the speed and the unsafe passing that I do not tolerate.

As for 20-25 mph AND rotating a real paceline.... ive never seen that on the trail. maybe it happens, but thats just silly.

AND, if you admit, the original 4 you are complaining about were not doing this, why even mention the pacelining part, and just yell at them to slow the hell down, and quit passing like Aholes.

Ill admit, I have found myself at the tail end of our team using the MUP to get out somewhere where we can do some real riding. There have been times they are going way too fast for the trail (20mph) with an occasional other person on the trail. I am going to yell at them and tell them keep the speed to 15. But I have never been with, or seen groups rotating pacelines... but I stay the hell away from MUPs....
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