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Giro D'Italia (spoilers)

Old 05-26-15, 08:48 PM
  #126  
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Nibali has not looked good this spring. Okay, maybe he's had 9% body fat and is still working on his form for the Tour. But seems to me that in the recent past, when Nibali has faced Contador on a steep climb, he's been dropped.

Oh, hey, check this out - times up the Mortirolo - Contador climbed it almost 1 min faster than Landa, and did much of it solo, after chasing hard with his team on the 10 k flat leading to the climb.

TRAVEL TIMES ALONG THE MORTIROLO ASCENT - Giro d'Italia News
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Old 05-26-15, 08:54 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by Jakedatc
Not sure why Porte is still riding when he is hurt and way off the lead. Could be at home getting healed up for the Tour instead of slogging around italy
Well he's gone now. Unless I'm mistaken Porte's contract with Sky is up this year. He would have had a much stronger hand to play in negotiations as a legitimate GC threat than as a lieutenant. So much for that.
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Old 05-26-15, 09:45 PM
  #128  
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Any controversy about the timing of Landa and Aru getting bottles/gels from their cars on the final climb? I thought that was prohibited?
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Old 05-26-15, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Leinster
Is Aru looking to take Voeckler's place as the Peloton's number 1 face-puller?
it's not pretty is it?
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Old 05-26-15, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jyl
Any controversy about the timing of Landa and Aru getting bottles/gels from their cars on the final climb? I thought that was prohibited?
That is the least of it. Last time I saw one rider by themselves so murder everyone else teamed against them on a climb in such style was Llyod Flandis.

Tainted risotto?


Aru did a good job...and I wouldn't at all compare him to Schleck yet. Contador just ripped everyone else's legs off, by himself, including his own team (and Astana and Katusha), and left everyone else on that mountain look like they were standing still. I was actually wondering with how he was driving it if the rest of Saxo-Tinkoff would make the time cutoff.
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Old 05-26-15, 10:26 PM
  #131  
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It was a heck of a ride! I think he wanted to win the stage too, but didn't have enough left to outsprint Landa. Whether it was thanks to his late gels or what, Landa really took off at the end.

Interesting, that Landa. I don't think he ever won a stage in a major race, or even finished top ten, before joining Astana in 2014.
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Old 05-26-15, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jyl
It was a heck of a ride! I think he wanted to win the stage too, but didn't have enough left to outsprint Landa. Whether it was thanks to his late gels or what, Landa really took off at the end.

Interesting, that Landa. I don't think he ever won a stage in a major race, or even finished top ten, before joining Astana in 2014.
Yea...he let Landa win. No doubt in my mind about it. He let him go.

Would have looked even more suspicious than it already does if not only he solo'd back from being dropped due to a mechanical, the rest of his team couldn't make a dent in the gap so Contador burned and dropped them, pulled back the entire combined teams working together of Astana and Katusha basically by himself on a mountain and rode past them like they were standing still, dropped his nearest rival by 2 and a half minutes on the 2nd ascent of said mountain, but then also went on to win the stage.

He let Landa go. There's really no other believable explanation, and Landa only kept up because he was wheel sucking everyone else the last 50km and didn't burn himself out.


I've seen a few superhuman efforts televised via cycling in the last decade. And while fun to watch at the time...that one definitely will be featured in the Top 10 of Better Living Through Pharmacology next issue. I'm only wondering when the abnormal blood values test will be made public.
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Old 05-26-15, 11:15 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti

...I've seen a few superhuman efforts televised via cycling in the last decade. And while fun to watch at the time...that one definitely will be featured in the Top 10 of Better Living Through Pharmacology next issue. I'm only wondering when the abnormal blood values test will be made public.
I guess twenty-five years of epo and other little helpers has left me so jaded I don't really care who is doing what. I just enjoy watching the ride. If AC is clean, great. If he's as dirty as an Astana domestique, I'm still going to enjoy it. Right now, the rules boil down to "keep your values within parameters and may the best rider/chemist win". Fair enough for me.
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Old 05-26-15, 11:18 PM
  #134  
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Kruijswijk wasn't going to give away a stage, it would have made his career and he was riding very strongly, yet he couldn't respond to Landa's jump either. You let a guy sit in your draft for 10 k and eat late gels, you get mugged.
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Old 05-26-15, 11:21 PM
  #135  
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I realized Landa is out of contract this year. Where do you think he ends up? EQS may be looking for a different GC guy? Maybe BMC needs a plan B to TvG?
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Old 05-27-15, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
Yea...he let Landa win. No doubt in my mind about it. He let him go.

Would have looked even more suspicious than it already does if not only he solo'd back from being dropped due to a mechanical, the rest of his team couldn't make a dent in the gap so Contador burned and dropped them, pulled back the entire combined teams working together of Astana and Katusha basically by himself on a mountain and rode past them like they were standing still, dropped his nearest rival by 2 and a half minutes on the 2nd ascent of said mountain, but then also went on to win the stage.

He let Landa go. There's really no other believable explanation, and Landa only kept up because he was wheel sucking everyone else the last 50km and didn't burn himself out.


I've seen a few superhuman efforts televised via cycling in the last decade. And while fun to watch at the time...that one definitely will be featured in the Top 10 of Better Living Through Pharmacology next issue. I'm only wondering when the abnormal blood values test will be made public.
Let's be clear about what Contador actually did. From the foot of the Mortirolo, Landa pretty much took over the pacing at the front of the Aru group. When Contador got to the foot himself, he then closed a 50 second gap on Landa by bridging from backmarker to backmarker all the way up through the first 5-6km of the climb. Worth pointing out he had a few friends in amongst those backmarkers, while Landa was setting the pace on his own, and probably hampered a little by having to ride a pace Aru, who's clearly off form, could handle.

So Bertie, with some help from his friends, can put 50 seconds into Landa on a 11km, 10% climb. Which sounds about right.

I love that for once we saw a stage where the field got demolished before the last 5km of a summit finish.
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Old 05-27-15, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
Yea...he let Landa win. No doubt in my mind about it. He let him go.

Would have looked even more suspicious than it already does if not only he solo'd back from being dropped due to a mechanical, the rest of his team couldn't make a dent in the gap so Contador burned and dropped them, pulled back the entire combined teams working together of Astana and Katusha basically by himself on a mountain and rode past them like they were standing still, dropped his nearest rival by 2 and a half minutes on the 2nd ascent of said mountain, but then also went on to win the stage.

He let Landa go. There's really no other believable explanation, and Landa only kept up because he was wheel sucking everyone else the last 50km and didn't burn himself out.


I've seen a few superhuman efforts televised via cycling in the last decade. And while fun to watch at the time...that one definitely will be featured in the Top 10 of Better Living Through Pharmacology next issue. I'm only wondering when the abnormal blood values test will be made public.
Looked as legit as Pantani back in 1999... lol.
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Old 05-27-15, 09:16 AM
  #138  
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Ten to fifteen riders penalized 10 to 20 seconds yesterday for hanging onto cars. Including Konig and Van Den Broeck. I would guess these were sticky bottle situations.
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Old 05-27-15, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jyl
Ten to fifteen riders penalized 10 to 20 seconds yesterday for hanging onto cars. Including Konig and Van Den Broeck. I would guess these were sticky bottle situations.
Anything about Landa taking bottles from the car inside the last 20km? Kelly was speculating that they'd pre-cleared it with the officials since it was such a hard stage. Not that I'd blame anyone for getting an extra bottle that late in the day, but rules is rules.
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Old 05-27-15, 11:53 AM
  #140  
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A quiet stage for the GC guys. Props to Modolo for taking the sprint.
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Old 05-27-15, 01:29 PM
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Aru out, Landa in. Perhaps Aru will head out like Porte and prepare for the Tour de France instead.
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Old 05-27-15, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Panza
Aru out, Landa in. Perhaps Aru will head out like Porte and prepare for the Tour de France instead.
An Italian drop out while sitting 3rd in the Giro? Not gonna happen. Aru and Landa will try and double-team Contador over the remaining mountain stages and, at the very least, prevent him getting that stage win he really, really wants. Aru's only going to be at the Tour as Nibble's domestique anyway.
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Old 05-27-15, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Panza
I think that a Landa/Aru combination could pose serious threat to Contador riding solo.
In theory, at least. After all, this is a team sport. But AC seems to dominate the climbing stages, whether he is sitting in with his team or with Astana. Other than hoping for another AC mechanical, is there really any teamwork strategy, for Astana?
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Old 05-27-15, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by patrickgm60
In theory, at least. After all, this is a team sport. But AC seems to dominate the climbing stages, whether he is sitting in with his team or with Astana. Other than hoping for another AC mechanical, is there really any teamwork strategy, for Astana?
They even tried teaming up with Katusha and they couldn't hold off a Contador slowed by a mechanical
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Old 05-27-15, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
Yea...he let Landa win. No doubt in my mind about it. He let him go.

Would have looked even more suspicious than it already does if not only he solo'd back from being dropped due to a mechanical, the rest of his team couldn't make a dent in the gap so Contador burned and dropped them, pulled back the entire combined teams working together of Astana and Katusha basically by himself on a mountain and rode past them like they were standing still, dropped his nearest rival by 2 and a half minutes on the 2nd ascent of said mountain, but then also went on to win the stage.

He let Landa go. There's really no other believable explanation, and Landa only kept up because he was wheel sucking everyone else the last 50km and didn't burn himself out.


I've seen a few superhuman efforts televised via cycling in the last decade. And while fun to watch at the time...that one definitely will be featured in the Top 10 of Better Living Through Pharmacology next issue. I'm only wondering when the abnormal blood values test will be made public.
My thoughts exactly. When Landa did the jump to pull away from Contador, Contador appeared to go with him at first. It looked like Contador backed off after a few seconds because he wanted to, not because he was struggling.
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Old 05-27-15, 06:31 PM
  #146  
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Okay. Who thinks ones of the Astana riders (Landa or Aru), or both, will take time on Contador in the remaining stages?. Who thinks they'll take the pink jersey?. Who thinks Contador will take time on them?. Who thinks he will win a stage?
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Old 05-27-15, 08:44 PM
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Hopefully the last comment on Stage 16, but Leinster has it right. What Contador did was pretty amazing, but not "unbelievable". On the flats, where "Katowa" and Astana both pulled, they DID open up the gap on Contador, from about 20 seconds to almost a minute. When the Mortirolo hit, the strength of Astana took over, and Kat. was distanced, as would be expected. The problem is Landa was forced to ride at Aru's pace, who is obviously not as strong as he was earlier in the race. This allowed other riders to tag along, as the pace was forced by a weakened Aru. Contador just rode his own pace, which is obviously faster than Aru. Once Contador caught up, he recovered, and then rode off again, because his pace was higher than Aru could do. At that point, Landa was given the freedom to ride up to Contador, because if Aru couldn't do it, Astana had to let the stronger rider on their team bridge up to Contador. At that point, Contador was pretty tired, even though he could ride at a pace faster than Aru. When Landa attacked, Contador didn't let him go, he just chose not to go deep into the red to cover the move. I have no doubt Landa was faster, and would have won the stage, but I bet Contador could have probably lost less time if he really dug deep. I think he's happy with 4' on Landa as this point. These comments about his ride being suspcious is misplaced. Though I don't doubt he's on something, I would hardly call his ride "alien". I reserve that for the hilarity of Sky, which are the most unbelievable team since US Postal.

Now, going forward, I think Astana doesn't have enough stages to win the race, but I do think Landa will close in on AC, and finish second overall. I wouldn't be surprised if he finishes within 2 minutes of the lead. But Contador is too smart, and is not going to blow himself up following every Astana attack. Even if Astana goes nuts from the start, Contador can ride his own pace and it will be good enough to not blow 4 minutes.

The only attacking that will work on Contador now is to start with Aru. It's obvious Aru is much weaker than Contador, and is even weaker than Landa. If Landa attacks first, and Contador chases after him, with Aru following, once he bridges up and Aru counter-attacks, I just don't see it being very successful. However, if Aru attacks first, and Contador chases, Landa coming over the top is a much scarier proposition for Contador. I would bet now that Landa is second overall, Contador will not necessarily chase down Aru, and will just sit on Landa. See how the wheelsucker likes the tables turned on him! If Contador is smart, and I think he is, he will not really worry about Aru anymore, unless his team can't reel him in, or if he gets a big enough gap. Just stay with Landa, who has shown to be the strongest climber in the race, and Contador will win the Giro.
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Old 05-27-15, 08:45 PM
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Good lord that was a long post!
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Old 05-28-15, 01:28 AM
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^just think of it as 4 posts combined into one. if you posted each topic/thought separately, you would likely post more cumulatively in response.
at least we know where you stand. and i agree with your "long" post 100%.
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Old 05-28-15, 08:04 AM
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Contador's epic ride on the Mortirolo wasn't even in the top 10 fastest climbs up it in Giro history.

How fast did Alberto Contador scale the Passo di Mortirolo? - Cycling Weekly

I'm not naive enough to claim that as evidence that he isn't on something, but it's clear that it's at the very least more realistic a possibility that a clean rider can compete today than he could have 20 years ago.
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