cthenn

As long as Riis gets to keep his, Armstrong can keep his 7 as far as I'm concerned.

CNC2204

I was a Trainer in the mid to late 1980's i trained some of the St. Louis Football Cardinals before Bill Bidwell snuck the team out of STL at 1am in the morn in the darkeness [weird].

I was personal trainer to Niko Noga, MLB, Rob Awalt TE and some others.

In my gym roids were not hard to get. I knew a Doctor [MD] who sold roids in the parking lot out of the front trunk of his 911 Turbo.

I could get them easy but stayed away.

Neither Awalt nor Noga used steroids to my knowledge they were big enough.

I look and roids and HGH stuff as a snake shedding his skin too many times too fast as far as muscle growth.

Dudes had acne and rage issues but were big and aggressive.

IDK Lances training routines or the drugs he used but as far as the drug tests i read he would cathederize himself and fill his bladder with someone elses pee [thats drug free] right before the test and beat it every time.

Pretty driven person and a bit whacky as well but theres worse thing in the world i spose.

loimpact

Ya, if he really did transfuse his bladder with someone else's urine that is pretty friggin' extreme, though what little I know of what he actually did tells me he went to some pretty far extremes for doping anyway so totally believable.

Nice resume w/ the cardinals. I think the islander types just produce excess testosterone naturally. I went to school with Esera Tuaolo and aside from his fame on the gay front, he was still an impressive specimen even in high school. I'm 6'2" and 200lbs and he could pick me up like a rag doll. I'm not sure he was taking anything at that time, or later in the NFL but still a very strong figure.




Lance's physical being wasn't as impressive (thought one thing I always felt was that he had the "test face" which I likened to many people who exhibited the same. Maybe not a 100% giveaway but I've always noticed common facial features in testosterone users.

Shimagnolo

The rush of blood is *away* from your brain, if you are standing or sitting.

A few years ago I checked myself into ER complaining of chest pains.
Naturally, they initially handled it as an MI until the tests proved otherwise.
(It turned out to be pericarditis).
As part of the treatment for suspected MI, they gave me a sublingual nitro tablet.
My BP plunged and the monitor went into alarm.
That was when we all learned I'm part of the population that is hypersensitive to nitro.

Phloom

I stand corrected. The experience, I was only 17, kind of killed my curiosity about those kind of drugs. Not a pleasant experience.

C9H13N 

<blue mountain state> I'm the team captain, and I say oil changes! </blue mountain state>

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcv...hange-by-t_fun

mprelaw

He can if he changes his last name from Armstrong to Vacant.

Bat56

Thanks to everyone who answered without an emoticon. I was not trolling; I genuinely wonder how the title works.

KingCat

Yes, Lance Armstrong is a 7 time TDF winner.

RonH

Agree 100%.

Gerryattrick

I'm sure I had one of those in a stag night in Cardiff a few years ago.

Hypno Toad

Here's a newer one I found. I'm going to compare this closer after posting, cause I'm kinda lazy. After looking at these charts, clearly Lance is one and only problem.

mprelaw

You could roll that back to 1991, because you're not going to find a whole lot of people who believe that Big Mig suddenly went from a guy who struggled to crack the top 100 to 5 consecutive yellows, in the course of two years, all on his own. Or that Conconi was just giving him fitness advice.

Then you had Ulrich and Riis between him and Pantani.

Hypno Toad

I could be wrong on this... but I believe Ulrich was a fan of 'roids where Armstrong preferred the blood doping. So we can see that doping is better than 'roids... at least at the TdF.

I can say, Lance did teach everybody that you can spin to win. I'm a fan of spinning up climbs, I spend races climbing past all the people mashing.

mprelaw

Some guys have naturally high blood values, and benefit very little from EPO or transfusing. Lance's values were low, so he benefited greatly from blood doping. Lance did admit to using 'roids prior to his cancer, during his Oprah interview.

Hypno Toad

That's true, and I think they all so some 'roids, to varying levels... I believe there's a connection between 'roids and testie cancer, right?

mprelaw

I don't think there's anything conclusive.

gpsblake

My feeling is Lance was the best cyclist in the world and did what the others were pretty much doing, except he had a better system of not getting caught. But the TDF just vacating all winners during that era was the right move.

CoachManny

He did finish 7 times before the rest of the pack. He cheated but he did finish first 7 times.

TheManShow

How many time did he really cheat? Who else cheater, but were not tested, or caught cheating. Lance has done more for cancer awareness then many who say they are working or a cure for cancer.

So is Lance a hero or evil? Choice is your to make.

Shimagnolo

Every time.

Everyone.

The difference is the rest of them did not viciously attack, libel, sue, and attempt to ruin, anyone who dared to tell the truth.
So he is a jackass, regardless of whatever else he did.

CoachManny

Personally I do think he should be credited for the wins but with an asterisk.

It's hard to know who doesn't do it and all those winners in the past I'm sure some have done it. This is just my gut feelings no proof.

Hard to believe more didn't do it.

It's not a clean sport. As a baseball fan i see how steroids was/is a problem.

Lance screwed up.

Still won the tour 7 times but He cheated.

Cyclosaurus

The tacit assumption here is that all riders who doped benefited roughly equally, so if no one doped, Lance would still have been the best. I don't think that's the case at all. It's known that Lance was naturally suited to benefiting from EPO more than others. He also ran a more sophisticated doping operation, colluded with the UCI to avoid testing positive and/or to spin test results, and had a lot of resources to build his doping program. Others may not have been as willing or had the resources to do as much doping. It's entirely possible that without doping Lance would have been a mediocre rider. We'll never know of course but it seems too simple to assume everyone got the same level of boost from doping.

Shimagnolo

Agreed.
If you are going to disqualify LA for doping, then you may as well disqualify everyone prior to 1965 when it became illegal to dope, and testing was first introduced.

"1930: The acceptance of drug-taking in the Tour de France was so complete by 1930 that the rule book, distributed by Henri Desgrange, reminded riders that drugs would not be provided by the organisers."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ses_in_cycling

Peter2290

Pretty much how I feel as well.