Villumsen screws over her team and sponsors for WC bands
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You're making a ton of assumptions as well. For example you're presuming the team's manager is not spinning a story for the benefit of covering his butt
Here's a story far more believable:
Racer: "Boss, the team's bike is slowing me down...I can go faster on the NZ federation bike"
Boss: "You can use whichever bike you want as allowed by UCI rules...but I'll deny we had this conversation later, and odds are I'll have to blame you publicly for ire from sponsors"
Racer: "....."
Boss: "see you at the race! "
How do you practice enough on a machine to know it is faster and not have your team and team manager not knowing? I mean frigging come on. It is called playing plausible deniability.
Here's a story far more believable:
Racer: "Boss, the team's bike is slowing me down...I can go faster on the NZ federation bike"
Boss: "You can use whichever bike you want as allowed by UCI rules...but I'll deny we had this conversation later, and odds are I'll have to blame you publicly for ire from sponsors"
Racer: "....."
Boss: "see you at the race! "
How do you practice enough on a machine to know it is faster and not have your team and team manager not knowing? I mean frigging come on. It is called playing plausible deniability.
Also to answer someone's question about rebranding, yes, teams do that. A few years ago Cav wore rebranded Nike Cycling shoes, they were not Nikes but they had the logo on them. Also some riders can use non sponsor equipment like pedals, saddles, etc.
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To make a back to back comparison between the (Trek?) and Willier, she probably had both in a windtunnel at some point in NZ. This whole thing had a lot of planning involved.
Obviously it worked, because the difference was just 2.5 seconds at the end of the event and I'm sure someone could put together some convincing data that being an inch or whatever lower on the unbranded bike was enough to win her the race.
Obviously it worked, because the difference was just 2.5 seconds at the end of the event and I'm sure someone could put together some convincing data that being an inch or whatever lower on the unbranded bike was enough to win her the race.
#28
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You're making a ton of assumptions as well. For example you're presuming the team's manager is not spinning a story for the benefit of covering his butt
Here's a story far more believable:
Racer: "Boss, the team's bike is slowing me down...I can go faster on the NZ federation bike"
Boss: "You can use whichever bike you want as allowed by UCI rules...but I'll deny we had this conversation later, and odds are I'll have to blame you publicly for ire from sponsors"
Racer: "....."
Boss: "see you at the race! "
How do you practice enough on a machine to know it is faster and not have your team and team manager not knowing? I mean frigging come on. It is called playing plausible deniability.
Here's a story far more believable:
Racer: "Boss, the team's bike is slowing me down...I can go faster on the NZ federation bike"
Boss: "You can use whichever bike you want as allowed by UCI rules...but I'll deny we had this conversation later, and odds are I'll have to blame you publicly for ire from sponsors"
Racer: "....."
Boss: "see you at the race! "
How do you practice enough on a machine to know it is faster and not have your team and team manager not knowing? I mean frigging come on. It is called playing plausible deniability.
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Whatever hit her reputation might take will be more than made up from being the world champion.
I think (just a guess, obviously I have no facts at all to back this up) that something like that happened. Or maybe they didn't really give her consent, but I'm sure they knew. This whole 'we were completely caught off-guard' doesn't sound very likely.
I think (just a guess, obviously I have no facts at all to back this up) that something like that happened. Or maybe they didn't really give her consent, but I'm sure they knew. This whole 'we were completely caught off-guard' doesn't sound very likely.
And I'm sure her decision was made well before the last minute, and UHC people knew well before the last minute. I guess the real question is, if it was as simple as getting her body position an inch lower, why had Wilier not done something about it sooner? She's been riding for UHC through all of 2015 and, between her, the team and the bike supplier, they're only now getting around to addressing the fact that her old bike was faster on a 30km TT course?
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All of this. If she'd finished 10th, she might've got herself fired, but a rainbow jersey would tend to mitigate a lot of sins.
And I'm sure her decision was made well before the last minute, and UHC people knew well before the last minute. I guess the real question is, if it was as simple as getting her body position an inch lower, why had Wilier not done something about it sooner? She's been riding for UHC through all of 2015 and, between her, the team and the bike supplier, they're only now getting around to addressing the fact that her old bike was faster on a 30km TT course?
And I'm sure her decision was made well before the last minute, and UHC people knew well before the last minute. I guess the real question is, if it was as simple as getting her body position an inch lower, why had Wilier not done something about it sooner? She's been riding for UHC through all of 2015 and, between her, the team and the bike supplier, they're only now getting around to addressing the fact that her old bike was faster on a 30km TT course?
There's a reason why the budget needed to put on a top-notch women's team is at most 1/10 or 1/20 what a top men's team budget is...because the women are lucky to get a road bike and a TT bike and clothes to wear from their team. Simply getting a salary, you have to be the top of the top-and even then said salary is quite punk.
#31
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All of this. If she'd finished 10th, she might've got herself fired, but a rainbow jersey would tend to mitigate a lot of sins.
And I'm sure her decision was made well before the last minute, and UHC people knew well before the last minute. I guess the real question is, if it was as simple as getting her body position an inch lower, why had Wilier not done something about it sooner? She's been riding for UHC through all of 2015 and, between her, the team and the bike supplier, they're only now getting around to addressing the fact that her old bike was faster on a 30km TT course?
And I'm sure her decision was made well before the last minute, and UHC people knew well before the last minute. I guess the real question is, if it was as simple as getting her body position an inch lower, why had Wilier not done something about it sooner? She's been riding for UHC through all of 2015 and, between her, the team and the bike supplier, they're only now getting around to addressing the fact that her old bike was faster on a 30km TT course?
Noticed that CN just posted a follow up op-ed piece by a female cyclist/reporter with an obvious bias. Basically blaming Wilier, and saying Villumsen had no real choice because of it.
I'm surprised CN put that up without any further reporting on the story.
I'm usually all for the cyclist, but something is fishy about this whole thing.
I don't know why Wilier would keep sponsoring them. They are made out to be a)non-responsive to female riders -even though they are sponsoring a female squad b)non-competitive tt bike not worthy of the top level c) non-responsive to top sponsored athletes. d)don't make bikes that fit female cyclists.
The team they are sponsoring is either lying to them and making them the fool, or have athletes willing to take the money, but diss the product.
If that's how sponsors are represented within cycling, a lot better to just keep your good name and sponsor gran fondos or other cycling events and individual athletes outside of the pro tour.
Wilier actually enjoys a high brand reputation but all it takes is perception that your tt bike is non competitive, and consumers will skip it. That's what sponsorship is for- to up the brand perception.
That's how Trek sold crappy bikes for so long. When the Lance Dopestrong era ended, they actually started developing good bikes.
Last edited by cruiserhead; 09-25-15 at 04:39 PM.
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Because being a female professional...she gets a bike a kit and that is about it. Unlike Sagan or Cav that can just ask for a different bike and have it appear.
There's a reason why the budget needed to put on a top-notch women's team is at most 1/10 or 1/20 what a top men's team budget is...because the women are lucky to get a road bike and a TT bike and clothes to wear from their team. Simply getting a salary, you have to be the top of the top-and even then said salary is quite punk.
There's a reason why the budget needed to put on a top-notch women's team is at most 1/10 or 1/20 what a top men's team budget is...because the women are lucky to get a road bike and a TT bike and clothes to wear from their team. Simply getting a salary, you have to be the top of the top-and even then said salary is quite punk.
Cav is an interesting comparison; wasn't he spotted riding his old Venge for some stages at the Tour because he didn't like the integrated brake that Spesh put on the new version?
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Perhaps she should have discussed this with the team beforehand, but honestly, if it were me and it meant becoming the WC and getting fired vs. not getting the WC, I would risk getting fired. Becoming WC will take her further and before long this business about her riding the Trek will be all but forgotten.
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She won . . . fair and square!
If she had not won, would it have been mentioned?
If she had not won, would it have been mentioned?
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Another take. It's all good. She won the big prize. Wilier got far more notice than it would have had she not made the switch and we all know that any publicity, even bad publicity, is good. (And a 2 cm diff in bar height? She won by 2.5 seconds. Imaging 5th place in a long TT with a bar 2 cm too high isn't a very big stretch for me. And 5th place? Who's even going to look at her bike?)
And - as uncomfortable as this is for Wilier, it puts them on the women's stage. Front and center. They have to opportunity to make some sweet and "right" women's bikes then come to the world and say "look what we've now got" and because of this, people will. Nothing Villumsen could have done riding her sponsor's bike could possibly have gotten them this attention. Nothing.
Willier - use this spotlight on you to your advantage and women's benefit. It's now on you.
Ben
And - as uncomfortable as this is for Wilier, it puts them on the women's stage. Front and center. They have to opportunity to make some sweet and "right" women's bikes then come to the world and say "look what we've now got" and because of this, people will. Nothing Villumsen could have done riding her sponsor's bike could possibly have gotten them this attention. Nothing.
Willier - use this spotlight on you to your advantage and women's benefit. It's now on you.
Ben
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Rich
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The biggest mistake here was making a big deal about it. What will I recall about this? Wilier wasn't the right bike to win worlds. UHC threatened to fire the woman who won Worlds. Those aren't positive memories.
On the other hand, Villumsen conquered despite bureaucrats and company men who put dollars before dreams.
Many world champs have used non-sponsor equipment. Big deal. It's certainly been okay for men.
Except for this incident, when I saw Villumsen in the future riding Wilier bikes I'd think that's the bike of a world champion. Now I will definitely remember that it is not the bike of a world champion.
On the other hand, Villumsen conquered despite bureaucrats and company men who put dollars before dreams.
Many world champs have used non-sponsor equipment. Big deal. It's certainly been okay for men.
Except for this incident, when I saw Villumsen in the future riding Wilier bikes I'd think that's the bike of a world champion. Now I will definitely remember that it is not the bike of a world champion.
#38
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The biggest mistake here was making a big deal about it. What will I recall about this? Wilier wasn't the right bike to win worlds. UHC threatened to fire the woman who won Worlds. Those aren't positive memories.
On the other hand, Villumsen conquered despite bureaucrats and company men who put dollars before dreams.
Many world champs have used non-sponsor equipment. Big deal. It's certainly been okay for men.
Except for this incident, when I saw Villumsen in the future riding Wilier bikes I'd think that's the bike of a world champion. Now I will definitely remember that it is not the bike of a world champion.
On the other hand, Villumsen conquered despite bureaucrats and company men who put dollars before dreams.
Many world champs have used non-sponsor equipment. Big deal. It's certainly been okay for men.
Except for this incident, when I saw Villumsen in the future riding Wilier bikes I'd think that's the bike of a world champion. Now I will definitely remember that it is not the bike of a world champion.
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Rich
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We all know that women's cycling is a different ballgame from the pro men. At the end of the day it's an individual sport, especially ITT. Its just you and the clock. Of course the sponsors won't be happy about this, but she did what she had to do to win, as long as it wasn't against the rules. At least she didn't run with Trek logos, lol.
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Dude, you are also missing the point. Those defending her are also using speculation and making assumptions unquestioningly accepting her side's position. Healthy skepticism is what's called for. The bottom line is which team will hire her when she wants to move? Anyone considering it will ensure she's toast if she ever tries it again. (Read 'breaking the terms of a contract and huge lawsuits.') She has to know that as well...or at least should think about it. Could wind up being a short term gain.
Rich
Rich
The biggest mistake here was making a big deal about it. What will I recall about this? Wilier wasn't the right bike to win worlds. UHC threatened to fire the woman who won Worlds. Those aren't positive memories.
Except for this incident, when I saw Villumsen in the future riding Wilier bikes I'd think that's the bike of a world champion. Now I will definitely remember that it is not the bike of a world champion.
Except for this incident, when I saw Villumsen in the future riding Wilier bikes I'd think that's the bike of a world champion. Now I will definitely remember that it is not the bike of a world champion.
I might, at some stage, recall that "hey, wasn't there a thing back in the 2010s with Giant or BMC where somebody on one of their teams won a pursuit title on a blacked out Venge instead?"
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Is she asking for a custom lay-up and a unique frame to her specifications, or just to get her fit dialled in right? It really doesn't sound like too much to ask to get fit right. They have a Worlds contender on their books for a whole year and they couldn't get her to a wind tunnel?
Cav is an interesting comparison; wasn't he spotted riding his old Venge for some stages at the Tour because he didn't like the integrated brake that Spesh put on the new version?
Cav is an interesting comparison; wasn't he spotted riding his old Venge for some stages at the Tour because he didn't like the integrated brake that Spesh put on the new version?
Further the UCI rules regarding frame geometry are ultra-assholian, your saddle cannot even be unlevel and as we all know your bars cannot extend even a single millimeter too long. All the bikes already have the steerer cut as low as it will go and stem/handlebars configured the same. What more can you do regarding fit to get someone an inch lower? No much of anything short of a better fitted frame.
Last edited by Marcus_Ti; 09-26-15 at 08:30 AM.
#45
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But Trek has led the way in the industry in women's-specific design, Wilier has not yet followed. On their website they have made no attempt to market to women, they sell men's apparel but not women's, and have no women's range.
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One could argue that Wilier should have stepped up and provided Villumsen with a frame that allowed her to achieve her optimal position on the bike. Women her size around the world can attest - most bike companies neglect small riders, and by all accounts the smallest Wilier is more than two centimetres higher in the head tube than the comparable Trek....
Sadly, it took an audacious act of courage on her part to face her team, put her foot down, and decide, team be damned, she would ride her Trek and win the World Championship. No woman makes enough money to sacrifice a chance at rainbow bands in favour of her sponsor. And while Tom Boonen might be able to command Specialized to make a bike to fit his specifications, Linda Villumsen before the rainbow bands was no Tom Boonen.
Now, rather than asking who was right and who was wrong, maybe what we should be asking is will Wilier invest in women cyclists now that they are sponsoring the World Champion, and perhaps create a bike for her to win the Olympic Games on?
Sadly, it took an audacious act of courage on her part to face her team, put her foot down, and decide, team be damned, she would ride her Trek and win the World Championship. No woman makes enough money to sacrifice a chance at rainbow bands in favour of her sponsor. And while Tom Boonen might be able to command Specialized to make a bike to fit his specifications, Linda Villumsen before the rainbow bands was no Tom Boonen.
Now, rather than asking who was right and who was wrong, maybe what we should be asking is will Wilier invest in women cyclists now that they are sponsoring the World Champion, and perhaps create a bike for her to win the Olympic Games on?
#47
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I like the suggestion in the article. A win-win situation -- Wilier produces a bike frame more suitable for Villumsen and other riders her size, and she wins time trials next year riding Wiliers and wearing the rainbow stripes. I have no idea whether it's practical for them to develop and produce a better frame in six months, though.
Or they'll say it's not worth the cost and the drama for a small market which is not our core business.
Cycling is heavily dependent on sponsorship, which is harder and harder to come by in a post EPO world. Even more in women's cycling which is a much more marginal economic proposition. You just can't afford to bite the hand that feeds you.
She should have worked with Wilier months ago to dial in her fit, and worse case rebadged another frame with Wilier decals.
We all work for someone. she forgot who she worked for.
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Or they'll say it's not worth the cost and the drama for a small market which is not our core business.
Cycling is heavily dependent on sponsorship, which is harder and harder to come by in a post EPO world. Even more in women's cycling which is a much more marginal economic proposition. You just can't afford to bite the hand that feeds you.
She should have worked with Wilier months ago to dial in her fit, and worse case rebadged another frame with Wilier decals.
We all work for someone. she forgot who she worked for.
Cycling is heavily dependent on sponsorship, which is harder and harder to come by in a post EPO world. Even more in women's cycling which is a much more marginal economic proposition. You just can't afford to bite the hand that feeds you.
She should have worked with Wilier months ago to dial in her fit, and worse case rebadged another frame with Wilier decals.
We all work for someone. she forgot who she worked for.
How do you "dial in" the fit of a bike that is too large in the headtube when you already have the stem slammed? Further it could well be possible that the NZ federation was happy to supply her a bike so long as she didn't brand it up as a Wilier as that would offend NZ's sponsor of bikes (Trek)....and the blackout job was a compromise to keep everyone from being too pissed. Further it is all a funny mountain out of a molehile because UHC and Wilier decided to make a huge deal about it. Had they just swallowed their pride and shut up, I doubt anyone press would have been spent on the topic. Instead they end up with egg on their face because they tried to fling mud first.
But yes, let us make a scapegoat out of the rider...just as the corporate thugs (sponsors) want us to.
#49
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You're presuming she didn't try all that.
How do you "dial in" the fit of a bike that is too large in the headtube when you already have the stem slammed? Further it could well be possible that the NZ federation was happy to supply her a bike so long as she didn't brand it up as a Wilier as that would offend NZ's sponsor of bikes (Trek)....and the blackout job was a compromise to keep everyone from being too pissed. Further it is all a funny mountain out of a molehile because UHC and Wilier decided to make a huge deal about it. Had they just swallowed their pride and shut up, I doubt anyone press would have been spent on the topic. Instead they end up with egg on their face because they tried to fling mud first.
But yes, let us make a scapegoat out of the rider...just as the corporate thugs (sponsors) want us to.
How do you "dial in" the fit of a bike that is too large in the headtube when you already have the stem slammed? Further it could well be possible that the NZ federation was happy to supply her a bike so long as she didn't brand it up as a Wilier as that would offend NZ's sponsor of bikes (Trek)....and the blackout job was a compromise to keep everyone from being too pissed. Further it is all a funny mountain out of a molehile because UHC and Wilier decided to make a huge deal about it. Had they just swallowed their pride and shut up, I doubt anyone press would have been spent on the topic. Instead they end up with egg on their face because they tried to fling mud first.
But yes, let us make a scapegoat out of the rider...just as the corporate thugs (sponsors) want us to.
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
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You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
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