Armstrong Tweet at Tour of California
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,655
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
I really don't understand why there is so much hate on Lance . Did he kill lot of people in his cycling career that he is the enemy number 1 even after all those years . As far as I concern they all cheat even to these days except they know how to hide it well . UCI took away his 7 tour wins but have they found a worthy winner ( drug free) for each of those 7 years . That is right , non so far because they knew not one ride was clean .
Cheers
#27
Senior Member
"And others are proud of their modicum of righteousness, and for the sake of it do violence to all things: so that the world is drowned in their unrighteousness.
"Ah! how ineptly cometh the word 'virtue' out of their mouth! And when they say: 'I am just,' it always soundeth like: 'I am just- revenged!'
"With their virtues they want to scratch out the eyes of their enemies; and they elevate themselves only that they may lower others."
(Thus Spoke Zarathustra)
"Ah! how ineptly cometh the word 'virtue' out of their mouth! And when they say: 'I am just,' it always soundeth like: 'I am just- revenged!'
"With their virtues they want to scratch out the eyes of their enemies; and they elevate themselves only that they may lower others."
(Thus Spoke Zarathustra)
#28
Senior Member
@Crewchief911: Does it not bother you seeing Mark McGwire as coach for the Padres, or is your holier-than-thou attitude selectively biased?
Do you think McGwire is "cleaner" than Bonds? Other than the fact that one is white and the other black and one hit more homers than the other, what's the source of your hatred?
Both cheated. One was forced into retirement while the other got a pass for not wanting to "testify about the past"... and then went on to be a coach for the Cardinals. So now that the "other" is also coaching it's all wrong?
LA beat a whole bunch of cheaters at their own game. He is rightfully banned, but if they don't wipe the records of other cheaters neither should they wipe his. LA was the winner of all those TdF. Let's be consistent in judgement, otherwise it all reeks of hypocrisy, which is really what it is.
Do you think McGwire is "cleaner" than Bonds? Other than the fact that one is white and the other black and one hit more homers than the other, what's the source of your hatred?
Both cheated. One was forced into retirement while the other got a pass for not wanting to "testify about the past"... and then went on to be a coach for the Cardinals. So now that the "other" is also coaching it's all wrong?
LA beat a whole bunch of cheaters at their own game. He is rightfully banned, but if they don't wipe the records of other cheaters neither should they wipe his. LA was the winner of all those TdF. Let's be consistent in judgement, otherwise it all reeks of hypocrisy, which is really what it is.
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Southern California
Posts: 254
Bikes: 2011 Specialized Roubaix Comp SRAM Rival, 2008 LeMond Victoire Dura Ace, 1994 Santana Sovereign Tandem, 1986 Specialized Rockhopper Comp Shimano Deore, 1975 Raleigh Super Course Mark II
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
@Crewchief911: Does it not bother you seeing Mark McGwire as coach for the Padres, or is your holier-than-thou attitude selectively biased?
Do you think McGwire is "cleaner" than Bonds? Other than the fact that one is white and the other black and one hit more homers than the other, what's the source of your hatred?
Both cheated. One was forced into retirement while the other got a pass for not wanting to "testify about the past"... and then went on to be a coach for the Cardinals. So now that the "other" is also coaching it's all wrong?
LA beat a whole bunch of cheaters at their own game. He is rightfully banned, but if they don't wipe the records of other cheaters neither should they wipe his. LA was the winner of all those TdF. Let's be consistent in judgement, otherwise it all reeks of hypocrisy, which is really what it is.
Do you think McGwire is "cleaner" than Bonds? Other than the fact that one is white and the other black and one hit more homers than the other, what's the source of your hatred?
Both cheated. One was forced into retirement while the other got a pass for not wanting to "testify about the past"... and then went on to be a coach for the Cardinals. So now that the "other" is also coaching it's all wrong?
LA beat a whole bunch of cheaters at their own game. He is rightfully banned, but if they don't wipe the records of other cheaters neither should they wipe his. LA was the winner of all those TdF. Let's be consistent in judgement, otherwise it all reeks of hypocrisy, which is really what it is.
#30
Senior Member
@dcsix: I agree that LA was toxic. If he wronged people (as we all know he did) then there are legal avenues to address that. But you don't go after athletes' records based on their a$$holeness. These races are not popularity contests. So, if LA doped (and we all know he did), then, you are stripping records/wins based on unfair competition through the use of banned substances. Fair enough. Oh, but you're allowing other wins/records to stand because the guys were nicer dopers?! Gimme a break.
Regarding CrewChief911's comments, it's the same scenario. McGwire was on juice (along with his power twin, Canseco) long before Bonds decided that he had had enough playing clean and seeing McGwire and Sosa enjoy the spotlight. "Healing the Nation" the sportscasters were calling Big Mac's and Sosa's Nintendo homer spree, and Big Mac set the record and it was a great moment of national pride. Bull!! Bonds comes along, who was always the better naturally talented player, obliterates Big Mac's numbers, starts breaking stats rights right and left and, hold on a sec, now it is wrong! Oh that goes beyond Bonds being unlikeable... something is obviously wrong, some order has been uppended and therefore we're going to get him.
CrewChief appears to be a baseball fan, therefore he must know about all of this, and the fact that Big Mac went right from being subpoenaed, to not answering the questions, to being a St Louis batting coach, and no one gave a darn!!! Now, Bonds?? The dirty dude... he must not come close to a baseball diamond for the rest of his life! Please spare me the "it's not about race" argument. We Americans know there's still a LOT we need to come clean about when it comes to race, So I'm going to call it as I see it.
Big Mac, Bonds, and Sosa were all mentioned previously on the thread. You're indignant that Bonds is coaching? Ok. But you don't say anything about Big Mac? C'mon.
And BTW, Bonds has gone on to do some good, even sponsoring a women's cycling team. I'm sure Mr. McGwire has move on too and done himself some redemptive deeds, and perhaps even Sosa as well. Allow them both to coach, or get rid of BOTH.
Now, back to cycling. I don't like what LA did to a lot of people. But I also don't like that he was able to get away with it for so long because there were a LOT of people colluding with him, enabling and protecting him; people who one way or another gained from LA winning, but then went on to cut deals, etc. to save their own derrieres... And do you think the UCI is clean in all of this? I dislike the concept of scapegoating people when there's plenty of people who have done the exact same things getting away for free.
The fact that the UCI haven't assigned winners to those races is simply because they know there's NOBODY they can give those races to. So prosecute LA to the full extent of the law if you like, but in terms of performance, if it is true that the peloton was as dope-infested as it was, either you hit ALL of the era dopers, or accept the fact that LA was in fact the best darn rider of that era. I don't like what he did, but he did win those 7 TdF. Stop referring to LA as if he's some evil Voldemort like the rest of us are squeaky clean. Dude did some serious wrong, let's move on and let him move on as well.
Regarding CrewChief911's comments, it's the same scenario. McGwire was on juice (along with his power twin, Canseco) long before Bonds decided that he had had enough playing clean and seeing McGwire and Sosa enjoy the spotlight. "Healing the Nation" the sportscasters were calling Big Mac's and Sosa's Nintendo homer spree, and Big Mac set the record and it was a great moment of national pride. Bull!! Bonds comes along, who was always the better naturally talented player, obliterates Big Mac's numbers, starts breaking stats rights right and left and, hold on a sec, now it is wrong! Oh that goes beyond Bonds being unlikeable... something is obviously wrong, some order has been uppended and therefore we're going to get him.
CrewChief appears to be a baseball fan, therefore he must know about all of this, and the fact that Big Mac went right from being subpoenaed, to not answering the questions, to being a St Louis batting coach, and no one gave a darn!!! Now, Bonds?? The dirty dude... he must not come close to a baseball diamond for the rest of his life! Please spare me the "it's not about race" argument. We Americans know there's still a LOT we need to come clean about when it comes to race, So I'm going to call it as I see it.
Big Mac, Bonds, and Sosa were all mentioned previously on the thread. You're indignant that Bonds is coaching? Ok. But you don't say anything about Big Mac? C'mon.
And BTW, Bonds has gone on to do some good, even sponsoring a women's cycling team. I'm sure Mr. McGwire has move on too and done himself some redemptive deeds, and perhaps even Sosa as well. Allow them both to coach, or get rid of BOTH.
Now, back to cycling. I don't like what LA did to a lot of people. But I also don't like that he was able to get away with it for so long because there were a LOT of people colluding with him, enabling and protecting him; people who one way or another gained from LA winning, but then went on to cut deals, etc. to save their own derrieres... And do you think the UCI is clean in all of this? I dislike the concept of scapegoating people when there's plenty of people who have done the exact same things getting away for free.
The fact that the UCI haven't assigned winners to those races is simply because they know there's NOBODY they can give those races to. So prosecute LA to the full extent of the law if you like, but in terms of performance, if it is true that the peloton was as dope-infested as it was, either you hit ALL of the era dopers, or accept the fact that LA was in fact the best darn rider of that era. I don't like what he did, but he did win those 7 TdF. Stop referring to LA as if he's some evil Voldemort like the rest of us are squeaky clean. Dude did some serious wrong, let's move on and let him move on as well.
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Southern California
Posts: 254
Bikes: 2011 Specialized Roubaix Comp SRAM Rival, 2008 LeMond Victoire Dura Ace, 1994 Santana Sovereign Tandem, 1986 Specialized Rockhopper Comp Shimano Deore, 1975 Raleigh Super Course Mark II
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
@dcsix: I agree that LA was toxic. If he wronged people (as we all know he did) then there are legal avenues to address that. But you don't go after athletes' records based on their a$$holeness. These races are not popularity contests. So, if LA doped (and we all know he did), then, you are stripping records/wins based on unfair competition through the use of banned substances. Fair enough. Oh, but you're allowing other wins/records to stand because the guys were nicer dopers?! Gimme a break.
Regarding CrewChief911's comments, it's the same scenario. McGwire was on juice (along with his power twin, Canseco) long before Bonds decided that he had had enough playing clean and seeing McGwire and Sosa enjoy the spotlight. "Healing the Nation" the sportscasters were calling Big Mac's and Sosa's Nintendo homer spree, and Big Mac set the record and it was a great moment of national pride. Bull!! Bonds comes along, who was always the better naturally talented player, obliterates Big Mac's numbers, starts breaking stats rights right and left and, hold on a sec, now it is wrong! Oh that goes beyond Bonds being unlikeable... something is obviously wrong, some order has been uppended and therefore we're going to get him.
CrewChief appears to be a baseball fan, therefore he must know about all of this, and the fact that Big Mac went right from being subpoenaed, to not answering the questions, to being a St Louis batting coach, and no one gave a darn!!! Now, Bonds?? The dirty dude... he must not come close to a baseball diamond for the rest of his life! Please spare me the "it's not about race" argument. We Americans know there's still a LOT we need to come clean about when it comes to race, So I'm going to call it as I see it.
Big Mac, Bonds, and Sosa were all mentioned previously on the thread. You're indignant that Bonds is coaching? Ok. But you don't say anything about Big Mac? C'mon.
And BTW, Bonds has gone on to do some good, even sponsoring a women's cycling team. I'm sure Mr. McGwire has move on too and done himself some redemptive deeds, and perhaps even Sosa as well. Allow them both to coach, or get rid of BOTH.
Now, back to cycling. I don't like what LA did to a lot of people. But I also don't like that he was able to get away with it for so long because there were a LOT of people colluding with him, enabling and protecting him; people who one way or another gained from LA winning, but then went on to cut deals, etc. to save their own derrieres... And do you think the UCI is clean in all of this? I dislike the concept of scapegoating people when there's plenty of people who have done the exact same things getting away for free.
The fact that the UCI haven't assigned winners to those races is simply because they know there's NOBODY they can give those races to. So prosecute LA to the full extent of the law if you like, but in terms of performance, if it is true that the peloton was as dope-infested as it was, either you hit ALL of the era dopers, or accept the fact that LA was in fact the best darn rider of that era. I don't like what he did, but he did win those 7 TdF. Stop referring to LA as if he's some evil Voldemort like the rest of us are squeaky clean. Dude did some serious wrong, let's move on and let him move on as well.
Regarding CrewChief911's comments, it's the same scenario. McGwire was on juice (along with his power twin, Canseco) long before Bonds decided that he had had enough playing clean and seeing McGwire and Sosa enjoy the spotlight. "Healing the Nation" the sportscasters were calling Big Mac's and Sosa's Nintendo homer spree, and Big Mac set the record and it was a great moment of national pride. Bull!! Bonds comes along, who was always the better naturally talented player, obliterates Big Mac's numbers, starts breaking stats rights right and left and, hold on a sec, now it is wrong! Oh that goes beyond Bonds being unlikeable... something is obviously wrong, some order has been uppended and therefore we're going to get him.
CrewChief appears to be a baseball fan, therefore he must know about all of this, and the fact that Big Mac went right from being subpoenaed, to not answering the questions, to being a St Louis batting coach, and no one gave a darn!!! Now, Bonds?? The dirty dude... he must not come close to a baseball diamond for the rest of his life! Please spare me the "it's not about race" argument. We Americans know there's still a LOT we need to come clean about when it comes to race, So I'm going to call it as I see it.
Big Mac, Bonds, and Sosa were all mentioned previously on the thread. You're indignant that Bonds is coaching? Ok. But you don't say anything about Big Mac? C'mon.
And BTW, Bonds has gone on to do some good, even sponsoring a women's cycling team. I'm sure Mr. McGwire has move on too and done himself some redemptive deeds, and perhaps even Sosa as well. Allow them both to coach, or get rid of BOTH.
Now, back to cycling. I don't like what LA did to a lot of people. But I also don't like that he was able to get away with it for so long because there were a LOT of people colluding with him, enabling and protecting him; people who one way or another gained from LA winning, but then went on to cut deals, etc. to save their own derrieres... And do you think the UCI is clean in all of this? I dislike the concept of scapegoating people when there's plenty of people who have done the exact same things getting away for free.
The fact that the UCI haven't assigned winners to those races is simply because they know there's NOBODY they can give those races to. So prosecute LA to the full extent of the law if you like, but in terms of performance, if it is true that the peloton was as dope-infested as it was, either you hit ALL of the era dopers, or accept the fact that LA was in fact the best darn rider of that era. I don't like what he did, but he did win those 7 TdF. Stop referring to LA as if he's some evil Voldemort like the rest of us are squeaky clean. Dude did some serious wrong, let's move on and let him move on as well.
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,474
Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3374 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times
in
253 Posts
I always like to hear from Lance - as does the family. He is / was an amazing talent leaving out the PED use. How he went so long without mishap from crashes to flats speaks to his preparation.
I am disappointed that his results can't really be used for comparison. The current junior group is a level above what both Lemond and Lance were. No idea if it will stick. Ref point - the rider Lance tweated about is 0:2 against a junior in the TT. If nobody gets hurt - big surprises are coming.
I am disappointed that his results can't really be used for comparison. The current junior group is a level above what both Lemond and Lance were. No idea if it will stick. Ref point - the rider Lance tweated about is 0:2 against a junior in the TT. If nobody gets hurt - big surprises are coming.
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,474
Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3374 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times
in
253 Posts
@Crewchief911: ...
Do you think McGwire is "cleaner" than Bonds? Other than the fact that one is white and the other black and one hit more homers than the other, what's the source of your hatred?
Both cheated....
Do you think McGwire is "cleaner" than Bonds? Other than the fact that one is white and the other black and one hit more homers than the other, what's the source of your hatred?
Both cheated....
As a Lance fan - I am one. But that is I put the blame for cheating on the authorities, not the athletes.
#36
Road Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: West Portland OR
Posts: 52
Bikes: Focus Izalco, Scott Speedster 20, Giant 29er Hardtail MTB, Giant Full Susp MTB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I still don't understand how LA got away with it for so long. Was it because he was only using EPO that wasn't easily detected? I thought he was "blood doping" as well? Why weren't his blood counts too high? I watched the film on Netflix and came out with more questions than answers. Nobody needs to answer my mostly rhetorical questions but I agree with the sentiment that it wasn't THAT he was cheating, like all the other top riders, but how he reacted to the accusations that makes him a jerk and a bully.
#37
Senior Member
I still don't understand how LA got away with it for so long. Was it because he was only using EPO that wasn't easily detected? I thought he was "blood doping" as well? Why weren't his blood counts too high? I watched the film on Netflix and came out with more questions than answers. Nobody needs to answer my mostly rhetorical questions but I agree with the sentiment that it wasn't THAT he was cheating, like all the other top riders, but how he reacted to the accusations that makes him a jerk and a bully.
#38
Road Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: West Portland OR
Posts: 52
Bikes: Focus Izalco, Scott Speedster 20, Giant 29er Hardtail MTB, Giant Full Susp MTB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Right, but I don't understand how he got away with it all those years. From some of the testimony their rooms looked more like a hospital unit than a hotel room, crazy.
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,474
Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3374 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times
in
253 Posts
@Doge: Seriously?
#40
Senior Member
@Doge: Nice try pulling out the ignorance card when there is such a thing as the internet...
McGwire use of steroids is well known, primarily because 1) he himself admitted to it, 2) his power twin, Canseco, mentions in his book that he himself injected BigMac with the juice (before you discredit Canseco remember that he was the the one that blew open baseball's dope Pandora's box; his statements proved to be true after all), and 3) there is recorded testimony of a dealer that provided McGwire with the stuff.
To me it is funny how on the one hand people say, there is no evidence, I don't recall, etc. and they don't do due diligence to find out for themselves, but on the other hand, depending on who is it we're talking about, yes, absolutely, the guy is guilty! Our selective filters tune in/out depending on what we want to hear. Don't believe me? Look at the current presidential race... (running for cover).
FYI, none of the substances of which McGwire and Bonds were accused of taking were actually banned at the time they took them. McGwire's claim is that he did it for health and not performance reasons (duh), and Bonds' spin was that he never willingly took them (duh).
It's all out there so I won't do the legwork for you buddy.
Our own biases sometimes prevent us from looking at things objectively and impartially.
Back to cycling: Lance Armstrong.
See? The world didn't end and the guy probably didn't feel a thing when I mentioned his name.
Sports records are established based on performance; those are not congeniality contests! Put an asterisk after them if you will but you don't go after some people and not after others based on their shortcomings. If you're going after banned substances then the same measure should be objectively applied to ALL.
Wait... this is pro cycling what we're talking about. What was I thinking??
McGwire use of steroids is well known, primarily because 1) he himself admitted to it, 2) his power twin, Canseco, mentions in his book that he himself injected BigMac with the juice (before you discredit Canseco remember that he was the the one that blew open baseball's dope Pandora's box; his statements proved to be true after all), and 3) there is recorded testimony of a dealer that provided McGwire with the stuff.
To me it is funny how on the one hand people say, there is no evidence, I don't recall, etc. and they don't do due diligence to find out for themselves, but on the other hand, depending on who is it we're talking about, yes, absolutely, the guy is guilty! Our selective filters tune in/out depending on what we want to hear. Don't believe me? Look at the current presidential race... (running for cover).
FYI, none of the substances of which McGwire and Bonds were accused of taking were actually banned at the time they took them. McGwire's claim is that he did it for health and not performance reasons (duh), and Bonds' spin was that he never willingly took them (duh).
It's all out there so I won't do the legwork for you buddy.
Our own biases sometimes prevent us from looking at things objectively and impartially.
Back to cycling: Lance Armstrong.
See? The world didn't end and the guy probably didn't feel a thing when I mentioned his name.
Sports records are established based on performance; those are not congeniality contests! Put an asterisk after them if you will but you don't go after some people and not after others based on their shortcomings. If you're going after banned substances then the same measure should be objectively applied to ALL.
Wait... this is pro cycling what we're talking about. What was I thinking??
#41
Senior Member
A final note: while the drugs we're talking about were not banned at the time, the court of public opinion only cared whether or not these two baseball players took ANYTHING to help them.
On strictly legal grounds...
McGwire was wise... he simply pulled a sad face and didn't answer the questions. He should tip his lawyer. Bonds was arrogant and lied under oath.
But semantics aside, both took the stuff and trotted around the bases like freaks of nature.
On strictly legal grounds...
McGwire was wise... he simply pulled a sad face and didn't answer the questions. He should tip his lawyer. Bonds was arrogant and lied under oath.
But semantics aside, both took the stuff and trotted around the bases like freaks of nature.
#42
Senior Member
@Doge: Nice try pulling out the ignorance card when there is such a thing as the internet...
McGwire use of steroids is well known, primarily because 1) he himself admitted to it, 2) his power twin, Canseco, mentions in his book that he himself injected BigMac with the juice (before you discredit Canseco remember that he was the the one that blew open baseball's dope Pandora's box; his statements proved to be true after all), and 3) there is recorded testimony of a dealer that provided McGwire with the stuff.
To me it is funny how on the one hand people say, there is no evidence, I don't recall, etc. and they don't do due diligence to find out for themselves, but on the other hand, depending on who is it we're talking about, yes, absolutely, the guy is guilty! Our selective filters tune in/out depending on what we want to hear. Don't believe me? Look at the current presidential race... (running for cover).
FYI, none of the substances of which McGwire and Bonds were accused of taking were actually banned at the time they took them. McGwire's claim is that he did it for health and not performance reasons (duh), and Bonds' spin was that he never willingly took them (duh).
It's all out there so I won't do the legwork for you buddy.
Our own biases sometimes prevent us from looking at things objectively and impartially.
Back to cycling: Lance Armstrong.
See? The world didn't end and the guy probably didn't feel a thing when I mentioned his name.
Sports records are established based on performance; those are not congeniality contests! Put an asterisk after them if you will but you don't go after some people and not after others based on their shortcomings. If you're going after banned substances then the same measure should be objectively applied to ALL.
Wait... this is pro cycling what we're talking about. What was I thinking??
McGwire use of steroids is well known, primarily because 1) he himself admitted to it, 2) his power twin, Canseco, mentions in his book that he himself injected BigMac with the juice (before you discredit Canseco remember that he was the the one that blew open baseball's dope Pandora's box; his statements proved to be true after all), and 3) there is recorded testimony of a dealer that provided McGwire with the stuff.
To me it is funny how on the one hand people say, there is no evidence, I don't recall, etc. and they don't do due diligence to find out for themselves, but on the other hand, depending on who is it we're talking about, yes, absolutely, the guy is guilty! Our selective filters tune in/out depending on what we want to hear. Don't believe me? Look at the current presidential race... (running for cover).
FYI, none of the substances of which McGwire and Bonds were accused of taking were actually banned at the time they took them. McGwire's claim is that he did it for health and not performance reasons (duh), and Bonds' spin was that he never willingly took them (duh).
It's all out there so I won't do the legwork for you buddy.
Our own biases sometimes prevent us from looking at things objectively and impartially.
Back to cycling: Lance Armstrong.
See? The world didn't end and the guy probably didn't feel a thing when I mentioned his name.
Sports records are established based on performance; those are not congeniality contests! Put an asterisk after them if you will but you don't go after some people and not after others based on their shortcomings. If you're going after banned substances then the same measure should be objectively applied to ALL.
Wait... this is pro cycling what we're talking about. What was I thinking??
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,474
Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3374 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times
in
253 Posts
Was this about Powless or Armstrong?
I do think Lance is fairly out of touch with the youth cycling greats. Powless is good, just not as good as our best 17 and 18 year olds. I expect Lance, Phil and others don't know that yet.
I do think Lance is fairly out of touch with the youth cycling greats. Powless is good, just not as good as our best 17 and 18 year olds. I expect Lance, Phil and others don't know that yet.
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,117
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times
in
10 Posts
If the UCI cared (past and present) about cheating they would hand out lifetime bans to anyone caught (not just Lance Armstrong).
Lance was a d**k to a lot of folks but I still say he won those seven tours as well as all the other race wins he was stripped of.
Lance was a d**k to a lot of folks but I still say he won those seven tours as well as all the other race wins he was stripped of.
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto , Ontario , Canada
Posts: 542
Bikes: Colnago EP with Campy chorus
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
@Doge: Nice try pulling out the ignorance card when there is such a thing as the internet...
McGwire use of steroids is well known, primarily because 1) he himself admitted to it, 2) his power twin, Canseco, mentions in his book that he himself injected BigMac with the juice (before you discredit Canseco remember that he was the the one that blew open baseball's dope Pandora's box; his statements proved to be true after all), and 3) there is recorded testimony of a dealer that provided McGwire with the stuff.
To me it is funny how on the one hand people say, there is no evidence, I don't recall, etc. and they don't do due diligence to find out for themselves, but on the other hand, depending on who is it we're talking about, yes, absolutely, the guy is guilty! Our selective filters tune in/out depending on what we want to hear. Don't believe me? Look at the current presidential race... (running for cover).
FYI, none of the substances of which McGwire and Bonds were accused of taking were actually banned at the time they took them. McGwire's claim is that he did it for health and not performance reasons (duh), and Bonds' spin was that he never willingly took them (duh).
It's all out there so I won't do the legwork for you buddy.
Our own biases sometimes prevent us from looking at things objectively and impartially.
Back to cycling: Lance Armstrong.
See? The world didn't end and the guy probably didn't feel a thing when I mentioned his name.
Sports records are established based on performance; those are not congeniality contests! Put an asterisk after them if you will but you don't go after some people and not after others based on their shortcomings. If you're going after banned substances then the same measure should be objectively applied to ALL.
Wait... this is pro cycling what we're talking about. What was I thinking??
McGwire use of steroids is well known, primarily because 1) he himself admitted to it, 2) his power twin, Canseco, mentions in his book that he himself injected BigMac with the juice (before you discredit Canseco remember that he was the the one that blew open baseball's dope Pandora's box; his statements proved to be true after all), and 3) there is recorded testimony of a dealer that provided McGwire with the stuff.
To me it is funny how on the one hand people say, there is no evidence, I don't recall, etc. and they don't do due diligence to find out for themselves, but on the other hand, depending on who is it we're talking about, yes, absolutely, the guy is guilty! Our selective filters tune in/out depending on what we want to hear. Don't believe me? Look at the current presidential race... (running for cover).
FYI, none of the substances of which McGwire and Bonds were accused of taking were actually banned at the time they took them. McGwire's claim is that he did it for health and not performance reasons (duh), and Bonds' spin was that he never willingly took them (duh).
It's all out there so I won't do the legwork for you buddy.
Our own biases sometimes prevent us from looking at things objectively and impartially.
Back to cycling: Lance Armstrong.
See? The world didn't end and the guy probably didn't feel a thing when I mentioned his name.
Sports records are established based on performance; those are not congeniality contests! Put an asterisk after them if you will but you don't go after some people and not after others based on their shortcomings. If you're going after banned substances then the same measure should be objectively applied to ALL.
Wait... this is pro cycling what we're talking about. What was I thinking??
#47
Senior Member
#49
Senior Member
#50
Senior Member
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unio...Internationale
"The Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI; pronounced: [y.njɔ̃ si.klist ɛ̃.tɛʁ.na.sjɔ.nal], French for "International Cycling Union") is the world governing body for sports cycling and oversees international competitive cycling events. The UCI is based in Aigle, Switzerland."
"The UCI issues racing licenses to riders and enforces disciplinary rules, such as in matters of doping. The UCI also manages the classification of races and the points ranking system in various cycling disciplines including mountain biking, road and track cycling, for both men and women, amateur and professional. It also oversees the World Championships."
Paraphrasing President Truman, "the buck STOPS there..."
"The Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI; pronounced: [y.njɔ̃ si.klist ɛ̃.tɛʁ.na.sjɔ.nal], French for "International Cycling Union") is the world governing body for sports cycling and oversees international competitive cycling events. The UCI is based in Aigle, Switzerland."
"The UCI issues racing licenses to riders and enforces disciplinary rules, such as in matters of doping. The UCI also manages the classification of races and the points ranking system in various cycling disciplines including mountain biking, road and track cycling, for both men and women, amateur and professional. It also oversees the World Championships."
Paraphrasing President Truman, "the buck STOPS there..."