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Thread: By the Numbers

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    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    By the Numbers

    If you stop to think about it most of us can figure out which number has "won" the TDF the most. (Hint Lance is far from the only guy to repeat a few times in a row). The number with the second most wins is fairly famous and I'm sure several here know it.

    My question, what number has the third most wins?

    Followup for the truely sick. Does any number not ending in 1 have more than 1 win in the TDF?

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    Lance Hater Laggard's Avatar
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    Philippe Thys
    Louison Bobet
    Greg Lemond

    All have 3.

    Four riders have won 5.
    i may have overreacted

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    Photog Extraordinaire Crack'n'fail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard
    Philippe Thys
    Louison Bobet
    Greg Lemond

    All have 3.

    Four riders have won 5.
    Laggard, he means the race number (Lance had number 1 in 5 of his wins, LeMond in 2, Indurain in 4, etc.)

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    Coastal NC oneradtec's Avatar
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    51?

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    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Yea, 51 is the number 2 winning number. Of course number 1 has the most wins (mainly from repeaters, but it looks like some years it went to the favorite coming in). 51 is semi famous. I found 4 wins 69, 73,75 and 78. Some pretty good years. There are surely more.

    I had hoped someone would know number 3. From the little checking I have done so far 11 looks like a good bet.

    As many know for a lot of tour history the teams got numbers in a range of 10. E.g. 1-9, 11-19, 21-29 and the team leader got the number ending in 1. Usually the rest were alphabetical. This makes a winner with any number not ending in 1 fairly unusual (at least for the years since the current scheme has been in use). So it would be a bit of a coincidence if any number not ending in 1 had more than a couple of wins. (I have not found any so far with even 2).

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    Lance Hater Laggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crack'n'fail
    Laggard, he means the race number (Lance had number 1 in 5 of his wins, LeMond in 2, Indurain in 4, etc.)
    Ah, gotch ya.
    i may have overreacted

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    Senior Member DieselDan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crack'n'fail
    Laggard, he means the race number (Lance had number 1 in 5 of his wins, LeMond in 2, Indurain in 4, etc.)
    Lemond only won wearing #1 once in '90.
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    I think Lemond wore #141 in 89.

    the #1 on the end of a number designates team leader, hence the frequence of wins. Teams used to also be numbered, meaning the lowest number in the race was always 11.

    The team of the defending champ would be 11-19, then the next team 21-29 etc etc. I think this changed around 1991-1992.....someone correct me if not.


    Oh yeah....#51 was always highly sought after....considered lucky by pros due to the number of wins. I remember Gianni Bugno got it in 1991...Paul Sherwen was ready to give him the trophy after the prologue!!

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    What about 45 in 92 and 38 in 47?

    Hah... right now I think I'm in the same mood Lance is in... I wish this thing would just start!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekU2
    What about 45 in 92 and 38 in 47?

    Hah... right now I think I'm in the same mood Lance is in... I wish this thing would just start!


    Who wore #45 in '92?

    Atle Kvalsvoll?
    Luc Roosen?
    Massimo Ghirotto?



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    Senior Member DieselDan's Avatar
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    The # 1 goes to the defending champion or last winner, and the rest of his team gets 2-9 in alphabetical order. Hypothetically, if Lance does not race the TdF, Jan Ullrich would wear #1 being the last winner before Lance. I know, Marco Pantani won last before Lance. The other teams select a team leader to wear x1, then everyone else on the team in alphabetical order. The prefix goes by alphabetical order after the defending champions team.
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    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed073
    I think Lemond wore #141 in 89.

    the #1 on the end of a number designates team leader, hence the frequence of wins. Teams used to also be numbered, meaning the lowest number in the race was always 11.

    The team of the defending champ would be 11-19, then the next team 21-29 etc etc. I think this changed around 1991-1992.....someone correct me if not.


    Oh yeah....#51 was always highly sought after....considered lucky by pros due to the number of wins. I remember Gianni Bugno got it in 1991...Paul Sherwen was ready to give him the trophy after the prologue!!
    Nope. The numbers started with 1. I never know of a time when it strated with 11. there was a time when it was consecutive numbers that did not break based on team. There were even several years where different teams had different numbers of riders even to start (though I think there was still a maximum per team).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99
    Nope. The numbers started with 1. I never know of a time when it strated with 11. there was a time when it was consecutive numbers that did not break based on team. There were even several years where different teams had different numbers of riders even to start (though I think there was still a maximum per team).

    OK then, who wore #1 in the 1989 Tour? Delgado was resplendent in his #11 dossard.

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    Maglia Ciclamino gcasillo's Avatar
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    Great topic. Would have made a top drawer question in the quiz thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gcasillo
    Great topic. Would have made a top drawer question in the quiz thread.


    BRING BACK THE QUIZ THREAD!!!!!



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    Pantani wore #21 when he won in '98. He had finished 3rd the previous year.

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    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed073
    OK then, who wore #1 in the 1989 Tour? Delgado was resplendent in his #11 dossard.
    Steven Rooks had number 11 in 89. Delgado was in number 1 and Mig was number 4.

    Want all the numbers for the year or every number Pedro wore in the tour?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99
    Steven Rooks had number 11 in 89. Delgado was in number 1 and Mig was number 4.

    Want all the numbers for the year or every number Pedro wore in the tour?

    yes please!! My memory's rooted.

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    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed073
    yes please!! My memory's rooted.
    The year cuz it is easier:
    REYNOLDS-BANESTO
    1 DELGADO Pedro (Esp)
    2 ARNAUD Dominique (Fra)
    3 GOROSPE Julian (Esp)
    4 INDURAIN Miguel (Esp)
    5 LUKIN Javier (Esp)
    6 MAURI Melchor (Esp)
    7 PALACIO William (Col)
    8 RODRIGUEZ-MAGRO Jesus (Esp)
    9 RONDON Abelardo (Col)

    P.D.M
    11 ROOKS Steven (Hol)
    12 ALCALA Raul (Mex)
    13 DHAENENS Rudy (Bel) np.18°
    14 DRAAIJER Johan (Hol)
    15 EARLEY Martin (Irl)
    16 KELLY Sean (Irl)
    17 MULLER Jorg (Sui)
    18 THEUNISSE Gert-Jan (Hol)
    19 VAN ORSOUW Marc (Hol)

    KELME
    21 PARRA Fabio (Col) ab.11°
    22 GASTON Inaki (Esp) ab.10°
    23 GUIJARRO Manuel (Esp) hd.2°
    24 HERNANDEZ Omar (Col) hd.7°
    25 MARTINEZ-OLIVER Juan (Esp) hd.10°
    26 MORALES Pedro-Saul (Col) ab.3°
    27 PARRA Humberto (Col) hd.7°
    28 RONCANCIO Jose (Col) ab.11°
    29 VILAMAJO Jaime (Esp) hd.10°

    HELVETIA-LA SUISSE
    31 BAUER Steve (Can)
    32 GIANETTI Mauro (Sui)
    33 LECLERCQ Jean-Claude (Fra)
    34 MANDERS Henri (Hol)
    35 RICHARD Pascal (Sui)
    36 RUTTIMANN Niki (Sui) ab.17°
    37 STEVENHAAGEN Peter (Hol)
    38 VICHOT Frédéric (Fra)
    39 WILSON Michael (Aus)

    SUPER U
    41 FIGNON Laurent (Fra)
    42 BARTEAU Vincent (Fra)
    43 GARDE Dominique (Fra)
    44 IMBODEN Heinz (Sui) ab.10°
    45 LAVAINNE Christophe (Fra)
    46 MARIE Thierry (Fra)
    47 RIIS Bjarne (Dan)
    48 RUE Gérard (Fra)
    49 SIMON Pascal (Fra)

    CAFE DE COLOMBIA
    51 HERRERA Luis (Col)
    52 CABRERA Samuel (Col)
    53 CADENA Julio (Col)
    54 CAMARGO Alberto (Col)
    55 CARDENAS Henry (Col) np.5°
    56 RAMIREZ Martin (Col) ab.9°
    57 RICHARD Bernard (Fra)
    58 SCIREA Mario (Ita) hd.10°
    59 WORRE Jesper (Dan)

    Z-PEUGEOT
    61 BOYER Eric (Fra) np.13°
    62 CASADO Philippe (Fra)
    63 CORNILLET Bruno (Fra)
    64 KVALSVOLL Atle (Nor)
    65 LEMARCHAND François (Fra)
    66 LOUVIOT Philippe (Fra)
    67 MILLAR Robert (Gbr)
    68 PENSEC Ronan (Fra)
    69 SIMON Jérôme (Fra)

    B.H
    71 PINO Alvaro (Esp)
    72 ANTEQUERA Francisco (Esp)
    73 BOUVATIER Philippe (Fra) hd.7°
    74 CUBINO Laudelino (Esp) ab.15°
    75 ECHAVE Federico (Esp) np.15°
    76 FUERTE Anselmo (Esp)
    77 JUSDADO Juan (Esp)
    78 MURGUIALDAY Javier (Esp)
    79 PELIER Joël (Fra)

    PANASONIC-ISOSTAR
    81 BREUKINK Eric (Hol) ab.13°
    82 DE ROOY Theo (Hol)
    83 LUBBERDING Henk (Hol)
    84 NULENS Guy (Bel)
    85 TALEN John (Hol) hd.10°
    86 VAN POPPEL Jean-Paul (Hol) hd.10°
    87 VAN VLIET Teun (Hol)
    88 VANDERAERDEN Eric (Bel) hd.10°
    89 WAMPERS Jean-Marie (Bel)

    HITACHI-VTM
    91 CRIQUIELION Claude (Bel)
    92 DE VOS Hendrik (Bel)
    93 DE WOLF Dirk (Bel)
    94 HAEX Jos (Bel) np.13°
    95 JACOBS Patrick (Bel) ab.19°
    96 LIECKENS Jos (Bel) hd.10°
    97 LIPPENS Danny (Bel) ab.14°
    98 SERGEANT Marc (Bel)
    99 VAN AERT Jos (Hol) ab.12°

    7 ELEVEN-AMERICAN AIRLINES
    101 HAMPSTEN Andrew (Usa)
    102 DAHLBERG Nathan (Nzl) ab.18°
    103 KIEFEL Ron (Usa)
    104 KNICKMAN Roy (Usa) hd.18°
    105 LAURITZEN Dag-Otto (Dan) np.5°
    106 PIERCE Jeff (Usa)
    107 VEGGERBY Jens (Dan) él.10°
    108 YATES Sean (Gbr)
    109 ZADROBILEK Gerhard (Aut)

    PATERNINA-MARCOS EGUIZABAL
    111 LEJARRETA Marino (Esp)
    112 BEUKER René (Hol)
    113 HERMANS Mathieu (Hol)
    114 HODGE Stephen (Aus)
    115 LE CLERC Roland (Fra)
    116 MUJIKA Jokin (Esp)
    117 NIJBOER Erwin (Hol) ab.17°
    118 PEETERS Ludo (Bel)
    119 WECHSELBERGER Helmut (Aut)

    CARRERA JEANS-VAGABOND
    121 ZIMMERMANN Urs (Sui) np.17°
    122 BONTEMPI Guido (Ita) ab.10°
    123 CERIN Primoz (You)
    124 CHIAPPUCCI Claudio (Ita)
    125 DA SILVA Acacio (Por)
    126 MAECHLER Erich (Sui)
    127 MAGNAGO Walter (Ita)
    128 PAVLIC Yure (You)
    129 PERINI Giancarlo (Ita)

    R.M.O-MAVIC-LIBERIA
    131 MOTTET Charly (Fra)
    132 CARITOUX Eric (Fra)
    133 CLAVEYROLAT Thierry (Fra) ab.9°
    134 COLOTTI Jean-Claude (Fra)
    135 JOURDAN Christian (Fra)
    136 PEDERSEN Per (Dan)
    137 PINEAU Frank (Fra)
    138 SANDERS Gilles (Fra)
    139 VERMOTE Michel (Bel)

    A.D.R-AGRIGEL-BOTTECHIA
    141 LEMOND Greg (Usa)
    142 HOSTE Frank (Bel) él.10°
    143 KUUM Janusz (Nor) él.10°
    144 LAMMERTS Johan (Hol)
    145 MARTENS René (Bel)
    146 MUSEEUW Johan (Bel)
    147 PLANCKAERT Eddy (Bel) ab.18°
    148 VAN HOLEN Ronny (Bel) ab.12°
    149 VAN VOOREN Philip (Bel) ab.10°

    FAGOR
    151 ROCHE Stephen (Irl) np.10°
    152 BIONDI Laurent (Fra)
    153 CARLSEN John (Dan)
    154 CHAUBET Christian (Fra)
    155 FOREST Robert (Fra)
    156 KIMMAGE Paul (Irl) ab.12°
    157 LAVENU Vincent (Fra)
    158 ROSSIGNOLI Francesco (Ita) np.13°
    159 SCHEPERS Eddy (Bel) ab.14°

    HISTOR SIGMA-FINA
    161 ROOSEN Luc (Bel)
    162 DE WILDE Etienne (Bel)
    163 FRISON Herman (Bel) ab.14°
    164 LILHOLT Soren (Dan) ab.12°
    165 NEVENS Jan (Bel) ab.6°
    166 PATRY Rudy (Bel) hd.10°
    167 PEETERS Wilfried (Bel)
    168 SORENSEN Brian (Dan)
    169 VAN SLYCKE Rik (Bel)

    CHATEAU D'AX
    171 BUGNO Gianni (Ita)
    172 BADOLATO Ettore (Ita) np.17°
    173 FIDANZA Giovanni (Ita)
    174 PASSERA Camillo (Ita)
    175 TEBALDI Valerio (Ita)
    176 VANOTTI Ennio (Ita)
    177 VOLPI Alberto (Ita) np.13°
    178 VONA Franco (Ita) ab.17°
    179 ZANATTA Stefano (Ita) ab.6°

    TOSHIBA
    181 BEZAULT Laurent (Fra)
    182 GAYANT Martial (Fra)
    183 KAPPES Andreas (All)
    184 LELEU Philippe (Fra)
    185 MADIOT Marc (Fra)
    186 MADIOT Yvon (Fra)
    187 PHILIPOT Fabrice (Fra)
    188 POISSON Pascal (Fra)
    189 ROUX Denis (Fra) np.13°

    DOMEX-WEINMANN
    191 VAN DER POEL Adri (Hol) ab.10°
    192 ACHERMANN Alfred (Sui)
    193 BOMANS Carlo (Bel)
    194 BREU Beat (Sui)
    195 DERNIES Michel (Bel)
    196 DUCROT Maarten (Hol)
    197 GOESSENS Jan (Bel)
    198 ROBEET Patrick (Bel)
    199 WEGMULLER Thomas (Sui)

    SUPERCONFEX-YOKO-OPEL
    201 GOLZ Rolf (All) ab.17°
    202 JAKOBS Gert (Hol)
    203 MAASSEN Frans (Hol)
    204 NIJDAM Jelle (Hol)
    205 POELS Twan (Hol)
    206 SEGERS Noel (Bel) hd.9°
    207 SOLLEVELD Gerrit (Hol)
    208 TOLHOEK Patrick (Hol)
    209 VAN HOOYDONCK Edwig (Bel)

    T.V.M.
    211 ANDERSON Phil (Aus)
    212 CAPIOT Johan (Bel) hd.2°
    213 HANEGRAAF Jacques (Hol)
    214 KLEINSMAN Rob (Hol) ab.17°
    215 PIETERS Peter (Hol) hd.10°
    216 SCHURER Eddy (Hol)
    217 SIEMONS Jan (Hol)
    218 SKIBBY Jesper (Dan)
    219 VAN DEN BRANDE Jean-Philippe (Bel)

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    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieselDan
    The # 1 goes to the defending champion or last winner, and the rest of his team gets 2-9 in alphabetical order. Hypothetically, if Lance does not race the TdF, Jan Ullrich would wear #1 being the last winner before Lance. I know, Marco Pantani won last before Lance. The other teams select a team leader to wear x1, then everyone else on the team in alphabetical order. The prefix goes by alphabetical order after the defending champions team.
    In 1999 It went to the highest finisher from the previous year. Of course there was no previous winner of the Tour riding that year. (Bonus question, when was the last time before this when that happened?)

    Going back to when years we could find something out goes all the way to 1988. In the 80s it seems the coveted number 1 goes to the team of the previous winner. Really confused me for a while trying to figure out 1987, until I looked at the Toshiba Jersey and saw La Vie Claire was part of the logo.

    Not saying you are wrong DD as there has been more than enough time for them to have changed the rules. More curious about your source. If it is OLN I wouldn't put too much faith in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99
    The year cuz it is easier:
    REYNOLDS-BANESTO
    1 DELGADO Pedro (Esp)
    2 ARNAUD Dominique (Fra)
    3 GOROSPE Julian (Esp)
    4 INDURAIN Miguel (Esp)
    5 LUKIN Javier (Esp)
    6 MAURI Melchor (Esp)
    7 PALACIO William (Col)
    8 RODRIGUEZ-MAGRO Jesus (Esp)
    9 RONDON Abelardo (Col)



    T.V.M.
    211 ANDERSON Phil (Aus)
    212 CAPIOT Johan (Bel) hd.2°
    213 HANEGRAAF Jacques (Hol)
    214 KLEINSMAN Rob (Hol) ab.17°
    215 PIETERS Peter (Hol) hd.10°
    216 SCHURER Eddy (Hol)
    217 SIEMONS Jan (Hol)
    218 SKIBBY Jesper (Dan)
    219 VAN DEN BRANDE Jean-Philippe (Bel)


    Excellent....reading those names is a trip down memory lane!!

    Thanks.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed073
    Excellent....reading those names is a trip down memory lane!!

    Thanks.
    Your welcome. Thought I'd add the useful site I got them from:

    www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net

    Now unless you read French I would suggest searching for it in Google and then using the translate this page option.

    May take a whille to find things, but under races with stages they have the Tour, Giro, Vuelta and Tour de Suise, plus others. For these 4 they have the finish for each day, each days leader, team listings with jerseys and numbers.

    Oh and their listing for riders (something like prize list) gives results much farther down than any other site. I think for the Major Tours it is final placing no matter what including abandonment and disqualification. It even gives any stage finish or other jersey to at least 5th and I think usually 10th place. Pretty good to see what a rider has done.

    The only bad thing is that they do not include any active riders, but I guess that makes sense. I sure would not want to be updating riders in that kind of detail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99
    Your welcome. Thought I'd add the useful site I got them from:

    www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net

    Now unless you read French I would suggest searching for it in Google and then using the translate this page option.

    May take a whille to find things, but under races with stages they have the Tour, Giro, Vuelta and Tour de Suise, plus others. For these 4 they have the finish for each day, each days leader, team listings with jerseys and numbers.

    Oh and their listing for riders (something like prize list) gives results much farther down than any other site. I think for the Major Tours it is final placing no matter what including abandonment and disqualification. It even gives any stage finish or other jersey to at least 5th and I think usually 10th place. Pretty good to see what a rider has done.

    The only bad thing is that they do not include any active riders, but I guess that makes sense. I sure would not want to be updating riders in that kind of detail.
    cool link....thanks again

    ed

    edit: how good are the pics of the old jerseys from the 80s!!!

  24. #24
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed073
    cool link....thanks again

    ed

    edit: how good are the pics of the old jerseys from the 80s!!!
    By and large they are not pics at all, but instead good drawings. But they are still fun, and ocassionally useful (like in figuring out Toshiba in 87 was the team that used to be La Vie Claire).

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