EURO

Because all they have is the tests.

chuongdoan

You guys should just quit replying to this knucklehead.
He obviously has no good friends or support or else he wouldn't be seeking attention this way on an internet message board.

Its one thing to be against criminal behavior. Its another to smear a person like that and let it be a source of your own pleasure. In my opinion, that does not make you a better person than someone who cheats in a bike race.

McSpin

Euro, you should be pissed because 180+ tour riders got away with it. Happy because they managed to catch one? You should be pissed that their testing procedures are so poor. "They all are dopers", and we only catch a small percentage of them. Pereiro dopes, Sastre dopes along with all the rest, and they get away with it.

There is no joy seeing the sport falling apart and the controlling agencies so inept. If doping is the only way you can win in today's TDF, then it's no wonder the riders take the risk. Most are able to get away with it. Because of this, it all but forces riders to dope. Why compete if you have no chance to do well, much less win? I would never be happy to see one of the riders caught, no matter who it is. In fact, I will continue to be peeved at controlling agencies that are anything but in control. They need to either figure out how to reliably dectect the dopers every time they use it, or turn a blind eye to everyone. The way it is now, is purely stupid.

ElJamoquio

Fine, you can give the other guy the win.

Would he have won if Landis wasn't in the tour?

You play the game differently based on how far back you are. I know you realize that.

ElJamoquio

Easier said than done. I'm actually really suprised they're able to detect EPO nowadays - I never thought they would be able to.

EURO

Again - I'll make the comparison with crime. Yes, it sucks that people commit murder. That does not stop it being GREAT NEWS when they put a murderer behind bars.

The sport wil not fall apart. They have always been inept.

Doping has been the only way to win the tdf since 1903.

It's an arms race, and impossible battle. Just enjoy the sport and have agood laugh when guys get caught. It's what I've been doing for 20 years.

McSpin

Sorry, but that is simply a terrible analogy. The two scenerios aren't even in the same universe. When we talk about athletes taking performance enhancing drugs, we aren't discussing people who are physically harming others, much less killing them. Try to come up with a similar analogy if you want to judge a reaction.

Here's a better one: Speeding is against the law. It is well known that on a particular highway, that eveyone goes 15 mph past the speed limit. If they didn't, they would be run over by the drivers behind them. Fines are $100,000 per offense. The only method to catch a speeder is with a radar detector. However, the equipment is not reliable and only manages to catch every 50th vehicle that is breaking the speed limit. Your sister, who normally avoids this highway, is pregnant and is about to deliver and decides that she should use this highway, because it the best route to the hospital. She doesn't want to be run over, so she goes the speed of the other drivers and gets caught. She has to pay $100,000. You are thrilled that this "criminal", your sister, was caught and fined? She did break the law.


If it's truly impossible, whats the point of trying to prevent any drug use? Since nothing you do will work, why penalize the few unfortunate to be detected?

EURO

OH, McSpin I was waiting for you to turn up. I've got a message for you:-



That wasn't my point.

Sorry, but that's a terrible analogy.

Dude, I'm never going to pay attention to anything you type. I'm just going to cut and paste and type 'that wasn't my point'. You've missed your chance at having a proper discussion. Go back to your yacht or your golf or whatever you do at weekends.

HDTVKSS

far out, i can hear the USA backpedaling all the way from here. so ar you boys and girls now going to be returning all your merchandise and T shirts?

stage 17, best stage since Marion Jones won at the Olympics

pshaw

Ben Johnson?
Ooops he was Canadian....my bad

HDTVKSS

maybee we can get one of the Mulder form X files's poster with " i want to beleive " printed " on top of an image of him crossing the line on stage 17.

after all, clean Pro cycling is about as real as UFO's. and yes im sorry but that includes the Americans.

Hornbiker

I really, REALLY like that!

McSpin

LOL, you wouldn't know what a proper discussion was if it landed in your mouth. All you'd know is that it tastes bad.

EURO

That wasn't my point.

McSpin

Well, that lasted about a minute.

Karlotta

Well, you started off on the right track. The murder analogy was indeed at a different level. But the Speeding analogy is at the other extreme.

The more appropriate crime analogy would be something akin to fraud.

My guess is that Landis will be (initially) "convicted" on the confirmation of the B-sample counter-analysis, and will appeal the results using all the expert testimony and lawyering he can afford. In the end, even if he does exonerate himself, a cloud of doubt and suspicion will hang over him for as long as he is in the profession. A slightly darker and more ominous cloud than that which already hangs over every professional rider.

ElJamoquio

No, this is simultaneously finding the murder and catching the murderer - i.e., red-handed. Does the joy of finding the criminal overtake the somber of finding the crime?

McSpin

Okay, if you like fraud, it's easy enough to come up with an analogy with it: You have a poker tournament. It is a well known fact that everyone in the tournament will cheat, because there is no other way to win. It costs $10,000 to enter, but the fine for getting caught cheating (fraud) is $100,000. The only way to get caught is by the tournament directors, but their surveilance techniques aren't very good and they can only catch on average, one in 50 players. Your sister enters the tournament. She is honest, but they find a card in her hand that doesn't match the deck. She is declared a fraud and fined the $100,000. She claims the card must have been in the deck when it was delt. The director says all decks are sealed and certified before use. Your sister protests that there must have been a mistake, but the director says "sorry, that's the rules". There is no need to look at the rules or the deck certifying procedures, because someone figured this all out in advance and couldn't be wrong. Your sister is labeled a criminal and you are very happy that she was caught.

EURO

That wasn't my point.

EURO

Still, stage 17 - Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne - Morzine was great, yeah? What an attack from Landis. Almost up there with the legendary rides of Merckx.

How did he do it?

reef58

Euro now you are backtracking. You said numerous times Floyd was given the time. Now it is likely he was not given the time, but rather he cheated his way to victory. I am not surprised considering the performance on stage 16. What did he have to lose? He was facing a dismal finish in the TDF, and possibly career ending surgery. He was going to lose anyway, but maybe just maybe he could beat the testers. Looks like he was wrong.

Now what pisses me off is the robbed Pereiro if he is clean. I am sure OP does not want to win the Tour this way. He was robbed of his opportunity to ride into Paris in Yellow sipping champagne, and standing on the podium while his National Anthem played.

God what a mess,
Richard

EURO

Ha! All I ask you to do is read the very same thread that you just posted in. Read it from start to finish. Floyds lead at the end of this stage was partially a great ride, and parcially a tactical mistake on the part of two teams.

DMF 

This I don't understand. Given what I know about the types of "dope" that the T/E test picks up (which admittedly isn't a lot) there's no overnight, magic pill that could produce such a ride. What could he have taken?

Amen.

EURO

DMF - a therapeutic dose of testosterone could have aided his recovery from the previous day, thus making the ride easier.

ElJamoquio

"I know you are, but what am I?"

You're debating like a ten year old. Either ignore him or add something useful.