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Old 07-13-06, 09:26 AM   #1
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Discovery An Average Team.

Damn, I expected a little more out of Discovery. They really seem to have fallen to an average team without Lance. None of them could keep pace on the first real climbing stages and yesterday I read an article saying that they would be attacking in the mountains.
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Old 07-13-06, 09:27 AM   #2
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I disagree. They are the best team in the race, maybe in all of cycling. Every time I see that white, blue, and grey I shed a tear of joy.
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Old 07-13-06, 09:35 AM   #3
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there a very good team, without a true top GC rider, at least right now.
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Old 07-13-06, 09:36 AM   #4
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They are a terrific team with very good riders. Sure Lance did make all the difference. Others like CSC however, minus Basso, aren't looking much above average right now. I hear Riis' strategy changes by the hour
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Old 07-13-06, 09:43 AM   #5
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Don't get me wrong Discovery is my favorite team. But, I am disapointed in their performance. Do they have anyone contending for any jersey's, stages or GC. Without the TTT it is not looking good for any victories. I think I saw on Discovery rider try to sneek into a breakaway, why not try for more and a possible stage win?
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Old 07-13-06, 09:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLH
...I think I saw on Discovery rider try to sneek into a breakaway, why not try for more and a possible stage win?
That may happen if in another week, Hincape, Salvodelli are completely out of GC contention.
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Old 07-13-06, 09:51 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by rufvelo
That may happen if in another week, Hincape, Salvodelli are completely out of GC contention.

Hincapie winning this year's TDF was a fantasy from the get go.
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Old 07-13-06, 10:54 AM   #8
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I think you are correct - they are an average team with an average director sportif. . .All of this talk of Johan's genius is falling apart in front of our eyes. . .George looked pathetic today, as did Paolo and the entire team other than Jose Acevado. It is becoming apparent that Lance was the Man, the Team, and the DS for the entire team. The rest where there because you need 9 riders and a DS. . .

It is one thing to be the Man (as Lance was) and another thing to work for the Man. . .Disco has lots of folks that are very capable of working for the Man but NONE capable of being the Man. .

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Old 07-13-06, 11:57 AM   #9
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Regardless of how good Armstrong was, Bruyneel did a hell of a job managing a team, and holding it together for 7 years. there are so many things that can go wrong, and cost you the TDF, 7 in a row is truely amazing, and nobody, Merckx and Armstrong included, can pull that off without strong team orginization. So Bruyneel can't make a silk purse out of sow's ear, he was still pretty damn good at maximizing what he had with Armstrong. If you think back to 2003, without exactly the right tactics, 7 in a row wouldn't have happened.
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Old 07-13-06, 12:00 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
Regardless of how good Armstrong was, Bruyneel did a hell of a job managing a team, and holding it together for 7 years. there are so many things that can go wrong, and cost you the TDF, 7 in a row is truely amazing, and nobody, Merckx and Armstrong included, can pull that off without strong team orginization. So Bruyneel can't make a silk purse out of sow's ear, he was still pretty damn good at maximizing what he had with Armstrong. If you think back to 2003, without exactly the right tactics, 7 in a row wouldn't have happened.
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Old 07-13-06, 12:08 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
Regardless of how good Armstrong was, Bruyneel did a hell of a job managing a team, and holding it together for 7 years. there are so many things that can go wrong, and cost you the TDF, 7 in a row is truely amazing, and nobody, Merckx and Armstrong included, can pull that off without strong team orginization. So Bruyneel can't make a silk purse out of sow's ear, he was still pretty damn good at maximizing what he had with Armstrong. If you think back to 2003, without exactly the right tactics, 7 in a row wouldn't have happened.
Absolutely!

People tend to forget the kind of value managers like Bruyneel and Riis bring to the table. I have a lot of respect for these guys, especially given their own accomplishments. Anyone remember Bruyneel going off the side of the road on a descent a long time ago. All he could think of as he emerged from the bushes was getting back on the bike. They have a calming effect on the team, during times of distress, often during better times also urging their riders not to just attack without a plan. You can have lots of managers, but these 'been there, done that' guys are the real thing.
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Old 07-13-06, 12:26 PM   #12
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Of course they are a great team. With guys such as Landis, Menchov, Evans, Kloden, and Sastre, they are a "lock" to have the yellow jersey in Paris.

Oh...they don't have those guys?
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Old 07-13-06, 01:01 PM   #13
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Bruyneel + Armstrong = world class
Bruyneel - Armstrong = mediocre

Guys - we can argue all we want about his greatness but without Armstrong he would have no more recognition than any other average DS in the business. . .And now without Armstrong we are seeing EXACTLY that. . .Look at the standings to date.. .this is a team HE built and Acevado is the highest placed?! George is 20mins down as is Paolo and the team fell apart today with NO leadership?

It reminds me of last year on Corchavel (I think) when the team cracked and left Armstrong alone to respond to all attacks. . .It was Armstrong's leadership, calm and head-cracking that night that brought the team back.
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Old 07-13-06, 01:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acrafton
Bruyneel + Armstrong = world class
Bruyneel - Armstrong = mediocre
Bill Walsh + Joe Montana = 4 rings
Bill Walsh - Joe Montana (and Steve Young) = mediocre. No one can coach without players.
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Old 07-13-06, 01:22 PM   #15
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Hau Hau Hau, seely americaine team eez too fat for climbing zee mountaines sans Ford Explorer!

Bonjour monsieur Hincapie! peut-etre you should, how do you say...not being eating zee Big Macs for petit déjeuner during zee tour?
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Old 07-13-06, 01:24 PM   #16
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Bruyneel is in the position of trying to direct a team with no Captain. Everyone is out there for themselves and not for the team. IT JUST DON'T WORK. I don't care if you're Bruyneel, Riis, Jeff Foxworthy or Albert Einstein. We saw it last year with T-Mobile and a few others, now we're seeing it in Discovery and CSC too. When they had Lance they had a vision - a focus - a purpose. All of the other members of a team and a job to do during certain stages to get Armstrong to Paris. Now, who knows who's working with whom, for whom, trying to out do whom, all within the same team. Bruyneel can tell his guys to back one guy or another, but I just don't see it happening. He even said that without someone in the top 10, Discovery has no leader. Bruyneel apparently was praying someone would show themselves as "the" GC guy. Buy even by the first TT, it was too late to make that decision. And it's certainly too late now.
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Old 07-13-06, 01:24 PM   #17
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It seems as if the boys were able to conjure up better performances when doing so for Lance. Apparently, riding yourself raw up a mountain at the risk of dying on the roadside was a better option than disappointing your leader and having to face him at the dinner table that night. Without Lance there to inspire, are they not riding as hard? Are they not as motivated?
Hard to say.
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Old 07-13-06, 01:26 PM   #18
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So, this brings up the question of Discovery's future. Do you think they will go outside to find a GC contender and team leader for next year or will they continue to develop one of the current riders in hopes of a GC contender.
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Old 07-13-06, 01:41 PM   #19
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To borrow Lance's own words, Lance was "the sh*t that kills".
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Old 07-13-06, 01:43 PM   #20
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cuda, couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 07-13-06, 01:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy de Loimbard
Hau Hau Hau, seely americaine team eez too fat for climbing zee mountaines sans Ford Explorer!

Bonjour monsieur Hincapie! peut-etre you should, how do you say...not being eating zee Big Macs for petit déjeuner during zee tour?
Yo Frenchi,

a "seely americaine" is wearing the yellow now.
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Old 07-13-06, 02:09 PM   #22
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With the group there now, riding to win GC was a mistake from the start. They should have tried for stage wins, the team championship, and heck - send a couple guys up to work for Floyd.

As incredible as Ekimov is to be hanging in there at his age, the team would have been much better served to have selected Guisev. There's a rider with a bright future.
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Old 07-13-06, 02:14 PM   #23
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"Bruyneel is in the position of trying to direct a team with no Captain" - OK but it is HIS TEAM so by not selecting a leader he has created the situation he is in now. . .mediocre. It would seem that the weakness of most teams over the last eight years (CSC, T-Mobile, etc. . .) was NO leader but a "let's see what happens" approach which clearly doesn't work. . .so should he have selected a leader and make the team work for him? Don't know. . .what may be apparent is that he built a team with no leader but a bunch of worker bees. . .too bad.
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Old 07-13-06, 02:15 PM   #24
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[QUOTE=cuda2k]Bruyneel is in the position of trying to direct a team with no Captain. Everyone is out there for themselves and not for the team. IT JUST DON'T WORK. I don't care if you're Bruyneel, Riis, Jeff Foxworthy or Albert Einstein. We saw it last year with T-Mobile and a few others, now we're seeing it in Discovery and CSC too... QUOTE]

I don't disagree with the point of the post, but I think you should have substituted T-Mobile for CSC in that comment. Despite speculation that it may be Julich, CSC said right from the outset that they would be supporting Carlos Sastre once Basso was removed. Today, Frank Shleck rode entirely for Sastre. Sastre is well-placed in 5th place and is within striking distance of the podium with Dressel probably going to slip on the next big climb. In fact if he can put in the TT of his life, he could win this thing, being that he is only 1:52 down on Landis.
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Old 07-13-06, 02:20 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
Bill Walsh + Joe Montana = 4 rings
Bill Walsh - Joe Montana (and Steve Young) = mediocre. No one can coach without players.
+1

Next he'll say Lefevere (sp?, anyway QS DS) is mediocre because Boonen hasn't won a stage yet.
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