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  1. #1
    me have long head tube TallRider's Avatar
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    Julich critical of [possible] "disrespect for the jersey" tactics *spoiler*

    Bobby Julich has been keeping a race diary for ESPN.com, and his comments today were critical of Phonak for giving up the MJ. Here is his first main paragraph:
    The yellow jersey is all about honor and taking responsibility of that honor. If you have enough responsibility and desire to take yellow, you have to have the same to defend it. So, when Landis and Phonak didn't do much to close an almost 30-minute gap from the breakaway group, other teams had to interpret that as a lack of respect for the jersey.

    This is the kind of Tour-morals that I was critical of in my initial post on another thread. Bobby certainly knows the culture of the peloton far, far better than I, but I still find it hard to believe that Phonak has gotten on the bad side of all of the other teams because they "disrespected the Yellow Jersey."

  2. #2
    Bent Cranks's Avatar
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    I wonder if Julich found it disrespectful when his teammate Zabriskie fell in the maille jaune.

    I should really go read the whole thing before I criticize, but shut up and ride. Oh, sorry Bobby, you not so fast. Happy recovery!

  3. #3
    My toilet-Floyd's future
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    Yeah, Phonak should have gone all out to 'respect' the jersey, and lose it long term in the process...

  4. #4
    me have long head tube TallRider's Avatar
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    Part of the issue here sounds like European traditionalism of the honor of the M.J., whereas Americans approach the sport with a more utilitarian, "what do I need to do (hopefully legally) to be in first by the end of the race?" If the latter conflicts with the former, I'll take the latter.

    A good tactical analysis of the race was posted here:
    http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=9784
    Last edited by TallRider; 07-15-06 at 03:52 PM.

  5. #5
    Style-challenged platypus's Avatar
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    this is hardly the first time in history that the MJ has been allowed to change hands, with the full knowledge that it will come back in the mountains.

    I say it's a smart move on the part of Phonak, rest your legs for the alps.

  6. #6
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    I never liked Julich. He's an *******. Maybe if he rode better he'd understand tactics.

    Koffee

  7. #7
    me have long head tube TallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    I never liked Julich. He's an *******. Maybe if he rode better he'd understand tactics.
    Hmm. It was weird for me because reading his columns for ESPN, I've liked them thus far (and it's my first real exposure to him as a person, too). And then this column comes out of the blue.
    Interestingly, seems that Jens, in his post-stage-victory interview, understands Phonak's tactics perfectly and was fine with them. This, Julich's teammate.

  8. #8
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    It wasn't weird for me. I haven't liked him for a few years now. Washed up has been. He knows it. He's just jealous because he didn't have a prayer to begin with. Well, when he's worn a yellow jersey, maybe he can talk about what's smart and what isn't smart. Until then, he ought to focus on finishing more Tour de Frances first.

    Jens understands tactics because he actually WINS. Jens probably wins in part because he spends less time diatribing about what is and isn't right and more time training to be a better and faster cyclist.

    Koffee

  9. #9
    TX Ciclista CarlJStoneham's Avatar
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    Let's see, Julich has worn the MJ how many days out of his career? Hmmm. Oh right. Zero. Pretty easy to comment from the "sidelines". Sound to me like what he's saying is "respect the yellow jersey, but don't do everything you possibly can to wear it in Paris." Yeah, OK Bobby. Respect the MJ so much that you lose it for good. Cry baby.

  10. #10
    Senior Member erader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timcupery
    Hmm. It was weird for me because reading his columns for ESPN, I've liked them thus far (and it's my first real exposure to him as a person, too). And then this column comes out of the blue.
    Interestingly, seems that Jens, in his post-stage-victory interview, understands Phonak's tactics perfectly and was fine with them. This, Julich's teammate.
    bobby julich = sour grapes. when he secured his podium spot he laid down. third was victory for bobby j.

    ed rader

  11. #11
    Shut Up and Ride domestique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    It wasn't weird for me. I haven't liked him for a few years now. Washed up has been. He knows it. He's just jealous because he didn't have a prayer to begin with. Well, when he's worn a yellow jersey, maybe he can talk about what's smart and what isn't smart. Until then, he ought to focus on finishing more Tour de Frances first.

    Jens understands tactics because he actually WINS. Jens probably wins in part because he spends less time diatribing about what is and isn't right and more time training to be a better and faster cyclist.

    Koffee

    Do yo realize he finished the TDF in third place in 1998.

    I found the aritcle a little surprising... but I still like Julich... I think he may be a little upset how he blew his chances this year (and his whole career).

    As for Phonak. If anyone is to be blames about the MJ blame Phonak's DS. I saw an interview where he said their goal in the AM was to let a break go and maybe take the jeresy. I don't think they wanted the jersey sooo soon in the race and were caught off guard. I really hope FLoyd can pull off the win, but the deciding factor will be his team. His team dosen't look too stong this year, especially after loosing some guys to the doping scandal.
    do·mes·tique (dms-tk) n.
    A member of a competitive bicycle-racing team whose role is to assist the team leader, as by setting the pace.

    C'Dale Six13 (Record 08), Olmo Antares (Record/Chorus 06)

  12. #12
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranks
    Oh, sorry Bobby, you not so fast. Happy recovery!
    again....
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  13. #13
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by domestique
    Do you realize he finished the TDF in third place in 1998?
    Yes...in a year when a whole team was eliminated...not to take anything away from that, but it's like when Buddy Lazier won the Indianapolis 500..the year all the CART teams did not run Indy and went to Michigan...
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  14. #14
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    Amen Roadwarrior. If you take out some of the major players, well... no wonder.

    And third ain't first. As Der kaiser.

    Koffee

  15. #15
    Dirt-riding heretic DrPete's Avatar
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    Did anyone ever accuse LA of disrespecting the Maillot Jaune when he didn't attack till TTs or mountains?

    Granted, I don't know that it was Phonak's intent to let the breakaway out that far, but the whole "respect the Maillot Jaune" thing is kind of ridiculous. As many have said, no point killing your team to keep the jersey from someone who's not a real contender.

    DrPete

  16. #16
    Senior Member godspiral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPete
    Granted, I don't know that it was Phonak's intent to let the breakaway out that far, but the whole "respect the Maillot Jaune" thing is kind of ridiculous.
    DrPete
    I think the entire peloton finished outside the elimination time. I'm pretty sure Phonak was able to choose within their riding ability, any finishing gap from 25' to 30', and its lame and pathethic that they chose 29'

  17. #17
    me have long head tube TallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godspiral
    I think the entire peloton finished outside the elimination time. I'm pretty sure Phonak was able to choose within their riding ability, any finishing gap from 25' to 30', and its lame and pathethic that they chose 29'
    Please. If you're going to add to the discussion, at least give reasons for what you're saying, and perhaps say why 29' is pathetic. Would 28:15 and a teddy bear (or maybe a stuffed lion) be not pathetic?
    Phonak could have chosen within their riding ability to have the gap at 0 minutes if they wanted to from the start.

  18. #18
    me have long head tube TallRider's Avatar
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    Today during Velonews' live race coverage, they reported on Eddy Merckx's thoughts on Phonak's tactics. The Cannibal seems fine with it. Of course, he also likes Armstrong, but if Eddy is is okay with the tactics, then I can't really chalk Julich's critiques up to "European peloton traditionalism" and Bobby's comments make even less sense.

    VeloNews's Neal Rogers spoke with five-time Tour winner Eddy Merckx this morning. Regarding Phonak's decision to hand off the jersey yesterday, Merckx said it was a good strategy, saving the team for when things really heat up in the Alps.

  19. #19
    me have long head tube TallRider's Avatar
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    To all of you who don't like Julich: what are some of the reasons? And I mean specific reasons, and specific examples. The reasons that have been given so far are either vague, or mostly crap. For example, "washed up and therefore jealous" - this may be true this season, but hasn't been true for the past few years, which was the time-scope to which you tried to apply that explanation. Last year Julich won the Paris-Nice, placed in the top-20 of the TdF while riding as a total domestique for Basso, and finished 3rd overall in ProTour points standings.
    I'm not necessarily disagreeing that Julich is a jerk, or "sour grapes" but I simply don't know enough to conclude one way or another, and this thread certainly hasn't given me any reasons to think so, beyond the article that I linked in the first place.
    I'm all ears.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    I never liked Julich. He's an *******. Maybe if he rode better he'd understand tactics.

    Koffee
    Or maybe if he understood tactics, he'd ride better.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by godspiral
    I think the entire peloton finished outside the elimination time. I'm pretty sure Phonak was able to choose within their riding ability, any finishing gap from 25' to 30', and its lame and pathethic that they chose 29'

    I agree - I'll admit I'm a novice at understanding this event - this is my third time watching the event start to finish - but the whole collusionary aspect of this race I think is difficult for Americans to understand, and it was why LA/Discovery/USPS was fun to watch. I think their contribution was to break some of these unfathomable TDF traditions and historic tactics. Haven't heard any reactions from the Texan himself but I would venture to guess that he would never have allowed that breakaway to get half an hour (especially with a potential threat in the group). If you are Phonak/FL then you either a.) think that the group isn't a threat and that you will regain the MJ by Paris, or b.) there's no way that our team has the strength to win by Paris. Either way, why would you want to give up the MJ so easily? If it's a.), what possible incremental benefit do you have in giving up the MJ so easily, or if it's b.), isn't it better to hold on to the MJ as long as possible? I know that team support is important but I don't think it's going to matter much once these guys hit the Alps anyways. If Phonak is weak, Floyd seems to be able to find the wheels of other riders without too much trouble.

  22. #22
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    Maybe everyone needs to switch to decaf. (Koffee) LOL

  23. #23
    Senior Member erader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timcupery
    To all of you who don't like Julich: what are some of the reasons? And I mean specific reasons, and specific examples. The reasons that have been given so far are either vague, or mostly crap. For example, "washed up and therefore jealous" - this may be true this season, but hasn't been true for the past few years, which was the time-scope to which you tried to apply that explanation. Last year Julich won the Paris-Nice, placed in the top-20 of the TdF while riding as a total domestique for Basso, and finished 3rd overall in ProTour points standings.
    I'm not necessarily disagreeing that Julich is a jerk, or "sour grapes" but I simply don't know enough to conclude one way or another, and this thread certainly hasn't given me any reasons to think so, beyond the article that I linked in the first place.
    I'm all ears.

    how long have you been watching pro racing? do you remember when bobby j placed in the vuelta and he about peed himself because he had finally taken his place "at the front of the pro peloton"?

    bobby has that also-ran mentality which along with his boyish good looks might endear him to some but he's got too much sugar in that tank for me.

    ed rader

  24. #24
    Up on the Down Side CyLowe97's Avatar
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    Aside from the 'respect' aspect, Phonak basically lost the MJ to one of their former Tour leaders in Periero. They may have done this for tactical help later in the Alps, as Oscar and Casse d'Eparnge (sp) are benefitting from the exposure.

    Perhaps yellow in Paris doesn't mean as much as aiming for a few days of wearing the MJ in Provence to Julich?

    Phonak are thinking long term.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldspark
    Maybe everyone needs to switch to decaf. (Koffee) LOL

    All bow to the caffeine.... long live the caffeine!

    Just kidding. I just had some unfortunate encounter with the guy- made me not stand him. He's so friggin pompous, and I haven't seen any other personality but that since then, that's all.

    Koffee

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