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adamastor 07-18-06 12:19 AM

Landis - Armstrong: Best of friends?
 
Until this year I never realised Landis and Armstrong didn't get along after Landis left US Postal. How is it seen from overseas?

If Landis wins the Tour, will Armstrong congratulate him?
Will Discovery help Rabo beat Landis?

frenk 07-18-06 01:20 AM

I've always been mildly curious about the Landis vs. Armstrong feud but never really cared enough to dig deeper for details.

Anyone have any dirt on this?

Helmet Head 07-18-06 01:38 AM

The feud was officially over when Bruyneel along with Lance's blessing tried to get Floyd onto Disco at the end of last year.

This is according to Daniel Coyle who had the balls to call Floyd to win the Tour on the cover of the July (published in June) issue of Outside magazine.

http://a1608.g.akamai.net/7/1608/136...ly2006_toc.jpg


http://outside.away.com/outside/feat...-landis-1.html

Excerpt:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Coyle
The crux moment arrived in Stage 6, on the way to Cannes. Halfway into the race, a group of 19 broke away, and none of the other teams were willing to help Phonak chase them down. With the gap widening and the race becoming dangerously unstable, Landis decided to send a message.

At the base of a climb, he ordered his team to the front and told them to go full throttle. They blasted for three, five, ten minutes, and when everyone behind was gasping and hurting, Landis turned to address the peloton.

"You want more of that, mother****ers?" he asked loudly. "Because if you do, we've got plenty."

The race went smoothly the rest of the way. After it ended, I asked Chechu Rubiera, a former teammate of Landis at U.S. Postal, if Floyd had reminded him of anyone in particular at that moment. Rubiera just smiled.
...
When the 2005 season ended and Armstrong retired, the dispute quickly cooled. Both sides went out of their way to extend olive branches, a process that accelerated when Discovery team director Johan Bruyneel, with Armstrong's blessing, took Landis out to dinner and tried to recruit him to join their team. ("Johan even paid!" Landis recalls with a smile.) While Armstrong and Landis are not as close as they once were, things are civil, even warm. When Landis won Paris–Nice, Armstrong e-mailed his congratulations.

"A year of that was too much," Landis says. "I'll take whatever responsibility is mine for what happened. In the race, it can be like a video game—you're killing this guy or that guy. But then afterward you turn it off and everybody's real people again.

It's a great read.

cyclezealot 07-18-06 01:39 AM

Landis and Armstrong were not the only US riders who abandoned the Postal Team . Seems I recall some nasty looks between Armstrong and those in past Tours.
Is it asking too much of a rider for that kind of loyalty when then can be leader on another team.
WOuld you sacrifice your career if you were that talented.
That's why I wish Hincapie will fire up and stand on the podium in Paris. He was loyal and deserves credit for that loyalty.
Yet, would you be that loyal if another team wanted to recruit you as leader.
I think I'd want all the Podium girl kisses for myself.

adamastor 07-18-06 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helmet Head
The feud was officially over when Bruyneel along with Lance's blessing tried to get Floyd onto Disco at the end of last year.

This is according to Daniel Coyle who had the balls to call Floyd to win the Tour on the cover of the July (published in June) issue of Outside magazine.

http://a1608.g.akamai.net/7/1608/136...ly2006_toc.jpg


http://outside.away.com/outside/feat...-landis-1.html

Excerpt:


It's a great read.

Thanks. Very interesting, as it seems to confirm Landis' comments recently during interviews:
"...I admit I was a bit over the top with Lance..."
"...Discovery made me an offer, when I was feeling down with all the affairs surrounding Phonak..."

roadwarrior 07-18-06 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclezealot
Landis and Armstrong were not the only US riders who abandoned the Postal Team . Seems I recall some nasty looks between Armstrong and those in past Tours.
Is it asking too much of a rider for that kind of loyalty when then can be leader on another team.
WOuld you sacrifice your career if you were that talented.
That's why I wish Hincapie will fire up and stand on the podium in Paris. He was loyal and deserves credit for that loyalty.
Yet, would you be that loyal if another team wanted to recruit you as leader.
I think I'd want all the Podium girl kisses for myself.

I'd heard about this article from a couple of people, but had not had the chance to read it. I am glad I did.

If you have Coyle's book, "Lance Armstrong's War", be sure to pay special attention to chapter 15, "The Book of Floyd". Page 164 has the great story about the argyle socks he wore when he showed up at his first race, and won by 15 minutes (with a 56 front gear) with a stop to fix a flat and won his second by 45 minutes.

In leadership, there's a big difference between wanting and doing. Note that of all the guys that have left, really only Heras, Hamilton, and Landis have had success and two of the three are now not riding accused as having cheated to get their success.

The problem with Lance and Floyd is that they are too much the same.

Being in charge is not so much fun. Landis is wearing it well.

Go Floyd....make them all suffer.

Helmet Head 07-18-06 01:40 PM

After seeing the brief interview with Lance today on OLN I'm not so sure the ax is buried for Lance.

The Tour is wide open? Anything can happen? No way to predict who will win? NO mention of Floyd as even being the most likely to win? It was pathetic. Shame on you, Lance. How petty can you get?

rebaths 07-18-06 02:09 PM

After reading that article in Outside and everything else I've learned about Floyd, I'm liking him more and more each day... let's just hope he comes back after surgery!

cuda2k 07-18-06 02:11 PM

Sure a mention of Landis would have been nice from Lance. But the truth is - it is wide open.

CanyonChaser 07-18-06 03:09 PM

The more I read about Landis and "Z-man" the more I really like them - and Dave is a local (for me). But Landis is really showing a lot of hutzpah. Sure, anybody can win the tour with one "testi" but how many people could win the tour with one hip?? ;)

dp

rule 07-18-06 03:19 PM

FL was the only guy who ever told LA and JB to go eff themselves and got away with it. LA then told FL to go eff himself in return, but respected him all the more for being the one guy in the peleton who was willing to do it.

Floyd is his own man. And Lance is right. You've got to respect that.

EURO 07-18-06 03:31 PM

Quote:

If Landis wins the Tour, will Armstrong congratulate him?
Nope, he'll hire him.

willus 07-18-06 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helmet Head
After seeing the brief interview with Lance today on OLN I'm not so sure the ax is buried for Lance.

The Tour is wide open? Anything can happen? No way to predict who will win? NO mention of Floyd as even being the most likely to win? It was pathetic. Shame on you, Lance. How petty can you get?

What did you expect Lance to say? He was wearing a Disco hat and at the Disco trailer with his old team. He's not gonna come out and say that Landis is gonna win.

Helmet Head 07-18-06 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willus
What did you expect Lance to say? He was wearing a Disco hat and at the Disco trailer with his old team. He's not gonna come out and say that Landis is gonna win.

Nobody associated with any other teams were afraid to admit in past years that Lance was the favorite or that he was likely to win. They certainly didn't say it was "wide open".

Wide open implies that there is no way to predict who will win. It could be anybody. But it's not WIDE OPEN. Realistically, only about 4 other guys (Kloden, Menchov, Sastre and maybe Evans) have a chance to win, and that assumes something happens to Floyd.

He didn't have to say that Floyd would win, but he could have said something for the fellow countryman who used to drag his a$$ up the hills for Lance.

It seems like Lance really has this "you're either with me or against me" attitude. Many he doesn't think it, but he seems to feel it, and it comes out in his inability to express to even mention the OBVIOUS FAVORITE when asked about what he thought about how it would turn out.

Dubbayoo 07-18-06 04:32 PM

Lance didn't really get along with anyone who left for greener pastures except maybe Van de Velde, who wasn't nearly as much of an asset as Livingston, Hamilton and Landis.
In Every Second Counts they mention that Floyd's first Postal contract was for $60K plus another $40K'ish for making the winning Tour team. He probably quadrupled his salary by leaving. Anyone who doesn't understand those numbers is just an idiot.

-VELOCITY- 07-18-06 05:20 PM

Great article. The more I read about Floyd the more I like him. I sure hope he does win.

toshi 07-18-06 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helmet Head
It seems like Lance really has this "you're either with me or against me" attitude. Many he doesn't think it, but he seems to feel it, and it comes out in his inability to express to even mention the OBVIOUS FAVORITE when asked about what he thought about how it would turn out.

This is one of his traits -- the cancer just made this combative outlook stronger (or worse, depending on how you view it I suppose). There's plenty of this sort of mantra on display in Coyle's Lance's War. War runs in his blood, it's what he's made of.

It's one reason why Lance was so dominant, and as people have mentioned, a huge reason why his team was so motivated.

Guest 07-18-06 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Nobody associated with any other teams were afraid to admit in past years that Lance was the favorite or that he was likely to win. They certainly didn't say it was "wide open".

Wide open implies that there is no way to predict who will win. It could be anybody. But it's not WIDE OPEN. Realistically, only about 4 other guys (Kloden, Menchov, Sastre and maybe Evans) have a chance to win, and that assumes something happens to Floyd.

He didn't have to say that Floyd would win, but he could have said something for the fellow countryman who used to drag his a$$ up the hills for Lance.

It seems like Lance really has this "you're either with me or against me" attitude. Many he doesn't think it, but he seems to feel it, and it comes out in his inability to express to even mention the OBVIOUS FAVORITE when asked about what he thought about how it would turn out.

Yes. But Lance was asked specifically last week about Floyd's chances of winning, and he had some off cuff response like "I suppose if he's meant to have it, he'll have it". It was really flip. But then on Saturday (I believe), they asked what Hincapie's chances were, he was like "Oh, George has a great chance of winning... he's so strong, and he's such a great cyclist, blah blah blah". It was silly, really. By that time, I think it was kind of obvious George is not going to be winning (most likely), though I do recognize the interview happened long before the Tour started. Still, Lance really seems to relish downplaying Floyd's abilities. Kind of petty and sad, if you ask me. :( Two snaps down, Lance.

Koffee

toshi 07-18-06 07:25 PM

Just read various quotes from Lance on Floyd's chances at NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/sp.../xSM2Z5W0XFmvA

Guest 07-18-06 08:33 PM

Is he clueless at how pompous he sounds, how much of a jerk he sounds, or is it that he just doesn't give a crap?

Koffee

ZachS 07-18-06 08:58 PM

the latter. reminds me of another famous texan who is often in the news.

USAZorro 07-18-06 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZachS
the latter. reminds me of another famous texan who is often in the news.

Howard Stern is from Texas? :p :D

Staceyfb 07-18-06 10:48 PM

"I know that there's been friction here and there between us but he's American, he's great for American cycling and I'd love to see the yellow jersey stay in the United States," Armstrong told reporters.

"I think it's very important for the success of cycling in the United States. American sports fans need their guys to be successful and see names and faces they can identity and relate to.

"Floyd is riding great. If I was betting man I'd certainly put my money on him now."

This is quoted from the article on Yahoo sports with LA today.
I would be willing to lay money on OLN skewing his interview a little.

hurley.girl 07-19-06 07:17 AM

Floyd seems to be going out of his way to prove he's nothing like Lance. I wonder if that's part of the reason he gave away the yellow jersey - because Lance never would have.

Journeyman 07-19-06 09:26 AM

Interesting article from Fox sports.

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story...T=HCP&GT1=8393

Armstrong always had a hard time letting go of his support riders, who often had the opportunity to ride elsewhere for more money. When Landis followed the path of Tyler Hamilton, Roberto Heras and other riders who left supporting roles on USPS to pursue individual greatness, Armstrong took it personally.

When Armstrong's Discovery teammate Tom Danielson had the chance to shut down Landis' shot at the overall crown at the 2005 Tour de Georgia, Armstrong personally paced Danielson up the race's hardest climb ensuring that Danielson beat Landis. As Danielson rolled across the line in front of Landis to secure the overall victory, Armstrong pointed at the clock and then back at Landis in what was one of the most immature and classless moments of his brilliant but often controversial career.

Armstrong characterized his support of Danielson as the coronation of a new American grand Tour king, but Landis had other plans and so far in the 2006 Tour he has prevailed. Danielson didn't race the Tour this year and while he is a great rider, he has yet to demonstrate the mental toughness and tactical acuity that have made Landis the probable winner of the 2006 Tour de France.

"I'd love to see the jersey stay in the States," said Armstrong who happened to be in L'Alpe d'Huez on Tuesday.

Armstrong made nice with Landis after he retired, though he admitted Tuesday there was "a little friction here and there" in the past.


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